some advice - limited, limited pro, match

[opinicus]

Hello, I've been researching for my next pistol. I have a carry pistol, but want to get something full size for target shooting. I'm also thinking about getting into USPSA shooting. I'm leaning (very much) toward a Witness Elite, but I'm not sure which model I should be looking at. Any advice would be great. My carry pistol is SA / DA, so I was thinking of sticking with the same thing and looking at the Limited Pro and Stock II. Anyone know how these triggers compare to the match, or limited? Are there advantages to SAO? Thanks!

[tanfogliocoe]

The answer to your question is mostly going to depend on what division you are going to shoot in USPSA. If you are comfortable with a DA/SA pistol then I would get a stockII versus the Limited pro. Not sure if the Limited Pro is production approved. If you want a nice entry level pistol in SA then I would get a Match. The match is a very nice pistol. One downside though is the current rear sight on the Match. Then there is the Limited and it is a limited division competitive pistol right out of the box. Hope this helps.

[JorDanO]

Another option would be to get a Stock 2 in .40. You could shoot it in Production or Limited. If you shot it in Limited only you could always convert it to SAO. The Limited Pro is NOT Production legal.

[RIIID]

If your going to shoot in Limited Div. I would go with the Limited Pro. To make any of the Witness guns competition ready you will be putting in Hennings trigger system(trigger, hammer, sear, pins,and springs) and a stainless steel magwell, so why pay for parts that won't be used. If you have to have a full dust cover and a bull barrel then the Limited would be the gun to start with. The Stock would be the gun for Production Div.. The Match is a good base gun to start with if you want to do a full blown custom gun built to your specs.

Rich

[gerritm]

The answer to your question is mostly going to depend on what division you are going to shoot in USPSA. If you are comfortable with a DA/SA pistol then I would get a stockII versus the Limited pro. Not sure if the Limited Pro is production approved. If you want a nice entry level pistol in SA then I would get a Match. The match is a very nice pistol. One downside though is the current rear sight on the Match. Then there is the Limited and it is a limited division competitive pistol right out of the box. Hope this helps.

I shoot the limited pro in 9mm in USPSA in production and IDPA in ESP. I don't know if it is approved as I have never shot it in a sanctioned match. It is a DA. I have a fiber optic sight. It runs flawless and is more accurate than I can shoot it. I have only been shooting matches for about 3 months, but have run several thousand rounds thru it with out a hiccup. The only problem was getting some of the replacement mags working. Henning Walgren took care of that with new springs and followers. After seeing many many other more expensive brands have a lot of trouble, I am convinced that EAA/Tanfoglio is a great gun. I just bought a Limited Gold open gun in .45. I will shoot that in my first match this weekend.

gerritm

[opinicus]

I've never shot USPSA, so I'm not sure which division. I want to shoot .40, and I'm thinking either production or limited... which division is best for a beginner? I like the idea of having a gun that I could run in either division. Is the stock II available in the US, and where at? I've also been considering an Angus CZ-75 SP01 Tactical, or a Sig X-five Allround.

Another question (or two, or three): In a competition, with a SA/DA gun without a decocker, can I run it cocked and locked? Or does my first shot have to be DA? Does this change if the gun has a decocker?

[gerritm]

I've never shot USPSA, so I'm not sure which division. I want to shoot .40, and I'm thinking either production or limited... which division is best for a beginner? I like the idea of having a gun that I could run in either division. Is the stock II available in the US, and where at? I've also been considering an Angus CZ-75 SP01 Tactical, or a Sig X-five Allround.

Another question (or two, or three): In a competition, with a SA/DA gun without a decocker, can I run it cocked and locked? Or does my first shot have to be DA? Does this change if the gun has a decocker?

Again I am fairly new to both IDPA and USPSA. My gun is DA and I have not had to shoot as a DA. We always have had the hammer cocked to start. Not sure of the rule. Production is the easiest to shoot. Nothing special to the gun. Run what you brung. Lots of fun.

[s_gorilla45]

Have you shot one of the full size guns? I was set on getting a Limited 40 for my next gun. I have fairly big hands but that thing is BIG. Makes my G35 feel down right skinny.

[Skydiver]

For USPSA Production Division, a DA/SA gun must start DA even if you don't have a decocker. This means manually lowering the hammer if need be. For all other divisions you can start SA with the safety engaged.

[gerritm]

For USPSA Production Division, a DA/SA gun must start DA even if you don't have a decocker. This means manually lowering the hammer if need be. For all other divisions you can start SA with the safety engaged.

All of the local matches I have shot have had the hammer cocked for everyone. It may just be a safety issue.That would be interesting having to fire off the first shot using DA.

[opinicus]

Have you shot one of the full size guns? I was set on getting a Limited 40 for my next gun. I have fairly big hands but that thing is BIG. Makes my G35 feel down right skinny.

I have shot some bigger guns, but I've never wrapped my paw around a Witness. I don't have a problem with my father's G21, but I wouldn't say that I have big hands. Right now, I'm just trying to make a list of things to "feel". I'll ask around my gun club and local shops and see if I can find people with the guns on my list.

For USPSA Production Division, a DA/SA gun must start DA even if you don't have a decocker. This means manually lowering the hammer if need be. For all other divisions you can start SA with the safety engaged.

Bet it's fun to watch people sweat as they manually drop the hammer in front of the officials.

Edited April 14, 2010 by opinicus

[Skydiver]

For USPSA Production Division, a DA/SA gun must start DA even if you don't have a decocker. This means manually lowering the hammer if need be. For all other divisions you can start SA with the safety engaged.

Bet it's fun to watch people sweat as they manually drop the hammer in front of the officials.

Yeah, when I was shooting my CZ-75 I made some RO's nervous since I was doing the pinch-the-sides-of-the-hammer technique rather than the drop-hammer-on-a-finger technique. What can I say, I've got sensitive fingers. :-)

Anyway, I've had only one AD during a plates match years ago with the pinch-the-sides-of-the-hammer technique -- too much oil on my fingers and the hammer. Good thing it wasn't a USPSA match. I learned from that point on to always wipe off my fingers and hammer of excess oil as part of my "Make Ready" routine.

Here's the related USPSA rules for starting DA in Production Division:

8.1 Handgun Ready Conditions:

8.1.2 Self-loading Pistols:

8.1.2.1 "Single action" – chamber loaded, hammer cocked, and the safety engaged.

8.1.2.2 "Double action" – chamber loaded, hammer fully down or decocked.

8.1.2.3 "Selective action" – chamber loaded with hammer fully down, or chamber loaded and hammer cocked with external safety engaged (see Divisions in Appendix D).

Appendix D4 (Production Division):

Specifically prohibited modifications and features:

Prototype and Single-Action-Only handguns.

Special Conditions:

Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal.

10.5 Match Disqualification - Unsafe Gun Handling

10.5.9 Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during loading, reloading, or unloading. Exception: while complying with the "Make Ready" command to lower the hammer of a gun without a decocking lever, or while initially loading a revolver with a spurless hammer.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Skydiver

[Airzoo Guy]

The Limited Pro is now Production legal...I have an email from DNROI that states so.

[Mo Hepworth]

For USPSA Production Division, a DA/SA gun must start DA even if you don't have a decocker. This means manually lowering the hammer if need be. For all other divisions you can start SA with the safety engaged.

All of the local matches I have shot have had the hammer cocked for everyone. It may just be a safety issue.That would be interesting having to fire off the first shot using DA.

You were (or should have been) scored Limited minor,...or Limited 10 Minor. (depending on how many rounds you put in your mags). It is not a safety issue to manually lower the hammer, just takes patience and practice. I prefer to use the thumb lowering technique.