Glenn Tracey

There is a product called "Vibratite". It was and still may be heavily used in motorcycle assembly on threaded parts and works similar to a "nylok" thread insert. A drop is applied to the threads )back a couple from the starters), it drys and acts just like a drop of nylon. Like anything. It needs replacing after "X" in & outs. Cliff may also have an answer. I once saw him wrap dental floss on that screw after his first one dropped his cylinder, but, I think he has gone on to something else. Glenn T.

The Lyman gauge seems to be quite difficult to reliably use on a revolver. The one I saw used by Marc Hartshorne of Pinnacle had a roller portion that went up against the trigger face and it would roll up, or down, giving repeatedly different readings. Even with grips off and frame in a padded vise it was very difficult to get any consistency. The RCBS seems to be much more consistent when worked in the same way. Also gives an apparently better true measurement of the let off. I guess only a set of NRA weights is truly accurate. Mike Carmoney..........How are you? Cliff Walsh......How are you? Bob Perdue........and you?? I see Dillon now has the North Mountain product. I imagine mine is a rarlely used collector item. I've not shot since the 2008 debacle. Glenn

I haven't met a 625 that Mike Carmoney can't make shoot, including the 625-2. I'm such a bum shooter and soooo slow I just can't shoot them. Mike has worked on three of mine and I own one of his. (Lot of good it all does me. I'm the one stage per hour guy.)

I'm no expert on this, though I've been re;loading since 1961. I have always been told, and still read, that it is a dangerous practice to tumble fully loaded pistol rounds. The loads are often on the ragged edge of been near maximum and the tumbling can crumble/alter the powder flakes/spheres, greatly increasing the burning rate.......to a "boom" rate. However after 47 years I've followed this practice which may be why no booms. Now, that said and done I'll probably get a double charge for a big one. You may want to consult with others on that tumbling after loading practice. Good luck......I worked through that similar problem with moons. I use Steve Crawford's "Ranch Products" but check all for flatness before remooning. Steve has been great to work with. I've never used Hearthco but understand his are top notch. Glenn

Reference data I have indicates Year of 1952. "K" prefix frames are/were normally target frame revolvers also thought of as the medium frame. The "s" when used on the "N" frames in the S/N usually meant a pre-model but I'm guessing that is not the case here. Model numbers stamping inside the crane began + - 1957. Fixed sight pre models for the "K" were on Models 10; 11, 45 Best on-line reference for you would be @ www.smith-wesson Forum.com Go to the main page "Main Page". Best to you........Glenn

Ok,there robin ,you can follow me around I need a sidekick to hold my cigar Actually, you need a sidecar to haul Robin around, and both of you can smoke the seegars.

The accuracy thing...... Two years ago I sent a NIB 25-2, and a used 5" 625-2 up to S&W to have some work done on both. That was before I learned some Forum members could turn out better actions than S&W. I'm sure S&W could, but won't, because of their liability concerns. Regardless. The 25-2 (Model of 1955), I was told By the Smith @Smith, was never thought of as a "really accurate" revolver, even though it supposedly was a "target" piece. My 625-2 was re-barreled with the Mikulek barrel configuration and special short cylinder, to match my Performance Center 625-7 Mikulek style & the 5" .bbl was relagated to the parts drawer. Okay, they both come back. The 25-2 has a test target......one ragged hole using 230 gr. JHP of some unknown brand. It's not been fired since. The newly barreled 625's test target had one flyer and five decently touching, but not what I would call a match perfect group. But after several thousand rounds that 625 barrel has finally come into it's own and from a hand held rest, it is one ragged hole with 230 gr. ball. Somewhere during my dickering (the 625 had to go back twice) with the Smith's at Smith we talked the 610. After all the above here is the upshot. The 25-2 wasn't considered by S&W to be "really accurate". Some were. Most apparently weren't. At least I have one that is, though I confess I don't know how they measure "accurate". On the other hand, the same "Smith" said that they, (S&W) found the 610 was possibly the most accurate centerfire revolver they ever made throughout that era. No reason given because I was too stupid to ask why that was so. I shoot the 625 or 610 equally well, or bad. Out of the four 625's and three 610's I own I can't find any difference in the accuracy once I find the right ammo combination. All are highly accurate enough for the IPSC "A" Zone though I only get there about half the time. For some reason, my 4" 610 gets more double taps into the target and I seem to enjoy shooting it more than the .45's. Anyway, you now know what the Manufacturer's thought was the most accurate of the two.

Well Dave, Since you would like to have another 625, I offer you a New in the Box, 625 w'3" barrel. for your 8 shot S&W .38 Super. An even up trade. You might as well get rid of something that gets little use and put something practical into competition, or your pants pocket. I have too many 625's & I'd like a sleeping 8 shot .38 Super. Competition shoots might do that Super some good. This is a serious offer. No kidding on this end. Glenn

Come on Mr. Carmoney............stroke the Boss and get in gear for Saturday PM. So far it is Cliff, Glenn, Gary, Luke and......

Darren, I'd forgotten what you went through to come East last Summer. Would certainly be a sight to see you arrive.....with Mike Carmoney in the jump seat. Hope you do come, and remember the informal dinner is typically on Saturday night. I shot Saturday PM, and as I recall you were on Mike's Sunday AM squad.

Cliff, My current plan, and I think Gary's, is to shoot Saturday PM like we did last year. I thought we had a pretty good squad and it allows us to have a Sunday hangover. Now, let's see what Mr. Carmoney & Son plan.

I shoot an early Mickulek style contoured barrel/cylinder 625. Started out with Houge rubber Monogrips. Hand just never felt really "in the groove". Had Hogue round butt, wood finger groove grips and they felt better but recoil ate up the web of my hand. At the Shot Show Neil Houge showed me a grip as follows: Round butt to square butt conversion, no finger grooves, with grip cap. That one works for me, and recoil damage to the hand is gone, and then............ I try a Houge Tulipwood Big Butt. Two days before the 2007 Summer Blast I decided to thin down the area behind the thumblatch (just like my other), was satisfied with the feel, and went out side for some practice. I consistently shot 8 to 10 inches to the left. I ran out of sight adjustment and just could not get used to the feel. Sleepless night. Match Day.......at 5 AM I pull the Big Butt, put on the Houge wood Rnd to Sq., no finger groove, with grip cap. Move my sights back to the paint alignment dot and shoot the best Alpha & Charley match ever. My Hogue big butt is for sale. No going back to that. If you can find, or borrow one of those conversion grips I yhink you'll love it. The grip cap gives just a big enough area for the hand to sit on to give a positive, confident feel to the grip and seems to minimize the recoil feel. Now that I've gotten my grip worked out, I just need to figure out how to move these 65 year old legs 5X faster.

How did this thread on the 2008 World Shoot team topic, take a right hand turn and end up on Icore and 8 holers? I agree with Carmoney. Not just because he bamboozled me into USPSA IPSC, Revolver Class last year, but because of his logical response on the selection process, and, he is right on about the "butt blind" location of Bali & Indonesia being on the State Department's "not so friendly list for US citizens" I spent nine years flying in and out of east Asia always wondering "when". Now that I don't have to, I wouldn't go there on a paid vacation. Be that as it may, I shoot 6 shooters (poorly), IPSC or ICORE. In Central PA I can find 3 to 4 IPSC club level matches a month. I can find about two ICORE a year and they are half a day away. Do I like ICORE? Yes, and I am a member. Do I enjoy IPSC more? Yes because there are more matches. Why do I shoot Revolver when the 1911 is my strength? Because thanks to Mike Carmoney I have found it strategically challenging, but I'm tending to get upset with the perception that "OPEN" is the only way to shoot, and that some of us Revo guys are just slowing the match day down. If I wanted to hose a stage, I'd use Class III. I guess I just added another right turn, so someone take it back to the World Shoot.

Ken Oehler of the chronograph fame is now writing about ballistics in Shooting Times magazine. In a relatively recent artical, he suggested that to verify chrono readings in general, shoot several strings with either .22 rim fire or even an air rifle. Both tend to have known and constant velocities unaffected by the vagaries of centerfire cartridges and minimal muzzle blast. I mention the magazine because you may be able to find his articals online. At the 2007 Shot Show I spoke with Ken because I own the 35P and was concerned about lack of parts. Not to worry was the reply, but,....in discussing chronographing the .45 ACP, he said results can very often be misleading and inconsistent.......because of that cartridges forward moving shock blast. I guess what he was saying was: a chrono can be affected by the shock,or muzzle blast or the screens see that blast, or the muzzle is too close to the screen. Beats me, but he said the .45 ACP was a particularly bad offender. His cure: Shoot through a vertical port in a piece of plywood to get rid of the blast potential and verify functioning for consistency by use of the .22 or air rifle. So, try your chronograp with either the .22 or air rifle and see if readings (speed and SD) are where they ought to be. If yes, perhaps the blast is giving it a fit. I hope that gives you some potential answers.

My match day chamber cleaner is a 50 cent gun show, .50 dia. bronze bristle, surplus brush, on 6" twisted wire, with loop at the end. Looks like the French must have made it, but don't know because it actually works. Just about all the "surplus" dealers sell them. On the bench: usually a "Pro Shot" brush (found them to be the best brand), on 6" section of cleaning rod rotated by old Black & Decker 3.2 Volt variable speed drill. On cheaper brushes, I've stuck some strands in from a copper (not stainles) Chore Girl pot cleaner. That by the way is highly recommended for dragging lead out of the bore.

My match day chamber cleaner is a 50 cent gun show, .50 dia. bronze bristle, surplus brush, on 6" twisted wire, with loop at the end. Looks like the French must have made it, but don't know because it actually works. Just about all the "surplus" dealers sell them. On the bench: usually a "Pro Shot" brush (found them to be the best brand), on 6" section of cleaning rod rotated by old Black & Decker 3.2 Volt variable speed drill. On cheaper brushes, I've stuck some strands in from a copper (not stainles) Chore Girl pot cleaner. That by the way is highly recommended for dragging lead out of the bore.

The 610-3 has the internal lock which may be why it was approved, and S&W can surely find three of anything, and who knows when the samples were submitted. At the '07 Shot Show, they were queried on the resurgence of a 610. The "one" who knows, or should know said; " not for several months". Two publications make current reference to a Performance Center version, though both show "data not available". Smith is obviously very market savy now. A run of 250 pieces will usually be sufficient for a run of anything. I'd bet they will make the 610 again, though I have no way of confirming that or knowing when.

Blast 2007 was just great.! The York, PA Isaac Walton League range underwent some really dramatic changes to make this year's event "first class". I saw new berms, widened bays and at least one more Porta Potty. Larry Houck designed most stages and I thought, well, it was one nice match! Cliff.....Great shooting with you, and.......I found a little bitty stainless screw inside my shoe, and I thought it was a pebble for two days. Left the top off the cooler after that brewski. The Tahoe is still drying out. How much water does it take for 5# of ice.? Coach...( you know who you are ), thanks for the pre-shoot help. Now if I can cut my time in half I might be 17 out of twenty. Was great seeing Squad 51 shoot. The Carmoney's, Gary Cuttitta, Bob Perdue, Darren et al. And again, Saturday dinner at San Carlos was:

In case there is still a communication problem, here is Steve's information from a recent invoice: Mailing: P.O. Box 145, Malinta, Ohio Zipcode: 43535 Telephone: 419.966.2881 Cell Phone ( and where you are most likely to succeed: 313.277.3118 Facsimilie ( FAX) 313.565.8536 I may have cell & telephone reversed.......sorry. Glenn I edited to add the zipcode. GT

Hog-Sniper & I are heading down to the Shot Show. We are leaving Tuesday and will be staying at a Hampton Inn. Anyone else from the Forum going down?? If so and you want to meet, or get an aftershow beer, PM either Gary or me and I'll share our contact details. Glenn

Congrats !! .......on coming in first. I didn't start this game until April of this year, at age 63. ( Thank you Mr. Carmoney) In four club matches and one Level III, I think I managed not to come in last once, but I didn't DQ, and I'm going to give it hell this year! I'm looking for AARP to sponsor me along with Sam Carmoney.

I spoke via phone to Randy this past Friday the 5th. He had all kinds of noise in his shop(sounded like construction) but he's working the herd down. He gave me my date to send two in, so he must be flushing them out. He did say he has a group of IRC ? ? revolvers he wants to finish up. He asked me to confirm by E-Mail so that must be working as well. His Web site was also up on that date. I'll be sending one 625 and one 25-2. Glenn

I oil all my firearm bores after cleaning. Choice of oil is dependent on when I'm anticipating using it again, but typically I use "Butch's" gun oil, it's reddish, by the Butch's Bore Shine people, but only on the bores. After cleaning I run a "Butch's Oil" patch through ( amazing how dark it comes out), followed by a dry patch, followed by a lightly oiled patch. Usually I'll push a dried patch through the bore before shooting if time/conditions permit. FP10 is the oil I use where oil is required. "RIG" for storage.

I was shopping for bullets last Thursday. Magtech was on my list, but they raised prices to wholesalers in December and do not offer pricing (on bullets) in quantities larger than 500. Their bullet price became un-competitive.......would their primers? I picked up Federals for $16.80/1,000 & no tax/no Hazmat at King of Prussia gun show last weekend. So if I load for you, you are getting Federal, or my 7 year old CCI. Heh, Heh. Gotta get my edge on you !

Bill, Hasn't the barrel on your 25-2 been shortened? After seeing yours & the comments, I went down to the gunroom. My 25-2 S/N N733959 has the original 6" .bbl (which is actually 5 7/8"). The .bbl, rib, sight ramp and patridge are a one piece machined forging or hunk of bar stock. There is absolutely no evidence of silver soldering or pinning either the ramp or patridge, thus making it a pain to change the configuration. Mike C, What is/was on Sam's? Dennis Smith....yours? And I think Luke Fay has a 25-2.