lcs
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That's fine -- as long as USPSA fixes their website so that the overall results can also get loaded. Because at small clubs there's lots of cross-divisional comparing going on between friends in different divisions...
I agree with this as well. I am one that likes looking at the combined results.
We all "look" at combined results, but combing Divisions is not official. I believe that is why you will not see USPSA post combined..
Ics - That's one of the reasons people (other than USPSA HQ types) don't care whether scores are uploaded to the USPSA web site. Most every shooter wants to see if they beat their buddy, or someone that they usually compare themselves to... and that's the one thing the USPSA does not allow to be posted...
If you are a USPSA member, then you should care. If your not a USPSA memeber, then you really don't have a say in it.
If it wasn't for USPSA HQ types (as you put it), then there wouldn't even be a USPSA.
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Any club that runs a match under the USPSA name should be uploading their scores to USPSA, regardless of having a classifier stage or posting to other places.
I am a USPSA MD/RM and my general order is: upload to the Practiscore website right after the match or while waiting for my food at the late afternoon get together after the match. I then upload the scores to USPSA that evening or the next day at the latest. I do wait for a few days to iron out any issues before uploading the classifier/activity report since that is harder to change. Payment is made immediately with credit card.
There have been a few times when the report was not in on time for the next month upload since we shoot the 4th Sat. In general that was when I was out of town or forgot to upload after waiting a few days. Mainly due to also running a 3 Gun Nation club (actually co-MD) most 1st Sat. at a different range and getting confused and tied up with what I have done lately! Adding it to my calendar as a to-do has helped.
All of that said, there might be a time or 2 when scores are a bit later and/or the activity report is delayed but what is being stated above is not acceptable. Every USPSA affiliated club who runs a USPSA match (not necessarly the occasional charity, non-USPSA, etc match) MUST upload the scores to USPSA and within a reasonable time all classifier scores. If not, talk to the MD and if not then move it up the chain. Just like running any match called USPSA must be run by ALL of the USPSA rules- the scoring must be done correctly. Anyone who goes to a USPSA match anywhere in the US should be able to count on certain absolutes across the board. And that is not IMO, those are the requirements or a club should lose their affiliation and run matches that are not run as USPSA.
OP good luck and I hope you get some cooperation on this.
I am of the opinion that this wording needs to be added to the club affiliation and bylaws.
But I am not a member of the BoD, and this would take them to get this done
That's fine -- as long as USPSA fixes their website so that the overall results can also get loaded. Because at small clubs there's lots of cross-divisional comparing going on between friends in different divisions...
I agree with this as well. I am one that likes looking at the combined results.
When you upload results to USPSA--you can find the combined results at http://combinedresults.info. They won't appear if the club does not post club matches to USPSA.
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Any club that runs a match under the USPSA name should be uploading their scores to USPSA, regardless of having a classifier stage or posting to other places.
I am a USPSA MD/RM and my general order is: upload to the Practiscore website right after the match or while waiting for my food at the late afternoon get together after the match. I then upload the scores to USPSA that evening or the next day at the latest. I do wait for a few days to iron out any issues before uploading the classifier/activity report since that is harder to change. Payment is made immediately with credit card.
There have been a few times when the report was not in on time for the next month upload since we shoot the 4th Sat. In general that was when I was out of town or forgot to upload after waiting a few days. Mainly due to also running a 3 Gun Nation club (actually co-MD) most 1st Sat. at a different range and getting confused and tied up with what I have done lately! Adding it to my calendar as a to-do has helped.
All of that said, there might be a time or 2 when scores are a bit later and/or the activity report is delayed but what is being stated above is not acceptable. Every USPSA affiliated club who runs a USPSA match (not necessarly the occasional charity, non-USPSA, etc match) MUST upload the scores to USPSA and within a reasonable time all classifier scores. If not, talk to the MD and if not then move it up the chain. Just like running any match called USPSA must be run by ALL of the USPSA rules- the scoring must be done correctly. Anyone who goes to a USPSA match anywhere in the US should be able to count on certain absolutes across the board. And that is not IMO, those are the requirements or a club should lose their affiliation and run matches that are not run as USPSA.
OP good luck and I hope you get some cooperation on this.
I am of the opinion that this wording needs to be added to the club affiliation and bylaws.
But I am not a member of the BoD, and this would take them to get this done
That's fine -- as long as USPSA fixes their website so that the overall results can also get loaded. Because at small clubs there's lots of cross-divisional comparing going on between friends in different divisions...
I agree with this as well. I am one that likes looking at the combined results.
We all "look" at combined results, but combing Divisions is not official. I believe that is why you will not see USPSA post combined..
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After you shoot 10 or so, look for cooper in the chamber.
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Given the holes in the barrel--I believe you will have to push the 115s to fast.
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Hi, Getting some MG 121's and I'm looking for a recipe using both these powders. I've been loading 124gr MG JHP's over 7.5 grs of Auto Comp and 8.0-8.3grs of HS6 both seated at 1.160 out of my STI Tru-Bor with excellent results. Thanks in advance for the info I appreciate it.
Have you chrono'ed those loads. I was loading 121's with 7.4 WAC @1.165 and getting 174 PF. I currently load 7.8 with 115's. 7.5 seems more than needed for a 124?
Sarge, two questions. Why JHP over CMJ? I currently use BBI, I thought about switching back to MG for open; is there any performance gain? I know the MG's are tougher than coated lead. Thanks.
I'm not Kevin, but......
I use JHP over CMJ for two reasons. (1) JHP hits on paper are more distinct that CMJ. CMJ (round nose) holes tend to push in the paper versus cutting a nice round hole. CMJ (Ripley's belive it or not) can deflect on cardboard. If your second shot is close to being a perfect double. It is harder to "read" the hits on paper. (2) IMO, JHP worked better on steel. An edge hit might still drive down the steel whereas CMJ might deflect.
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There have been issues like this where the resolution was as simple as a new MD was put in place, no one ever notified HQ and that person doesn't have access to upload scores and submit payment. They have just been posting results to practiscore and was unaware of submitting the results and payment to USPSA was needed. As USPSA members and regular competitors you should be asking your MD's to post your results to the USPSA webpage.
Jake, currently it is much much easier to post results to PractiScore. As an uspsa club and services coordinator, do you plan to make posting results to uspsa as easy as that?
I'm not sure I understand your comment. I use both EZwin and Practiscore. Practiscore is cool and has some great features, but EZWIN is old school programming and has it's limitations. EZWIN has served us well for a long time.
I can "post" scores just as fast with EZWIN as I can with Practiscore. Is Practiscore easier and faster overall--yes.
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If a club has a match and uploads the classifier file, USPSA records that action and lists that club with a link to pay the fee. (You have to be Club Contact or Authorized Uploader to see)
I see some clubs having classifier fees not paid as far back as Oct of 2014. No excuse for that.
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You would think they would be required to but I shot two matches(at 2 different clubs) last month that didn't submit anything to USPSA to be included in this month's update.
Bring this up to your Section Coordinator and Area Director
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Look at the Armscor/Rock Island 1911 9mm's those are the same thing.
While the Spartan was not great (what do you want for the price break), the Rock Island 9MM was far below the Spartan.
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There were 5 Open GMs and doesn't show as classifier for Open.
Your performance in larger matches and tournaments may also be used to help establish classification. Placement in a major event with a score above your assigned class percentage may result in your being promoted to a higher class, even if your current average is lower. Winning first or second in class at an Area Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class may result in promotion (except to Grand Master); winning High Overall in an Area Championship may promote you to Grand Master class. In addition, if you score 95% or higher at a USPSA national championship, you will be immediately moved to Grand Master class for that division
This match was a Level II
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That's the exact idea I'm going with. But it does require that I slow down from the last few outings where I was intentionally trying to speed up. My focus won't be on slowing down, but on hitting As.
Don't ever slow down---Practice more to match the speed. This game is all about speed. Even Vogel misses and gets Cs every once in a while, but he does not slow down.
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My question follows an incident at a level 1 match a while ago, where I was apparently the only RO on a squad with a few unclassified or fairly new shooters.
Two of these shooters were hogging the clock and did not know what they were doing. The issue was not just the bad range commands, which included phrases like "Do you understand the course of fire" but also the idiotic "Feel free to draw and take a sight picture".
One of the issues was that they were pushing the button immediately after the "Stand by" instead of waiting from 1 to 4 seconds. One shooter broke 180 and no "muzzle!" call was even muttered.
There was an overall lack of authority and understanding of the rules to the point that I felt there was a clear lack of safety.
I managed to get hold of the clock but the reactions to my range calls, which were the proper USPSA range commands, was negative. They also seemed to dislike my wait of at least one full second after the "Get ready!" command.
It was obvious that they were very unhappy with my way of running the clock and managed to get hold of the clock and all I could do was shake my head in disbelief while praying that no one would get hurt. Yet, I did everything by the rule book and in a non confrontational manner. This was not the first time I was doing the job either. I was obviously the only one who had the proper training.
I have also witnessed an incident where a brand new shooter insisted in a very intimidating manner to run the clock although he completely lacked basic knowledge of USPSA rules, let alone range commands.
My question is this: for level 1 matches, shouldn't certified range officers be clearly identified by either an armband or, better, a symbol to carry on the back of their belts, showing who is a currently certified RO or CRO?
This would be accompanied with a rule specifying that running the clock should in priority be the responsibility of properly identified certified range officers and that clubs should make the effort to properly distribute ROs between squads so that at least one, if not two, exist on each of them.
You should address your concerns to the MD. He/she is the one who sets the standards for their matches.
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The KKM barrel twist rate is not optimum for 147gr, it is designed for 124-125gr jacketed projectiles, give them a call and they can give you the details on the twist rate they use and the suggested projectile weight got the best accuracy.
Indeed the correct answer.
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I received 2500 147. They shoot just as well as any coated 147. I like the fact they did not have a grease ring and they were semi FP.
I would make one comment to the owner of ACME...... The boxes are cool in a retail enviornment, but I'd rather have more bullets or the cost reduced. Those boxes have to add to the cost. Cool looking, but of no use to me. You could get more bullets in a USPS flat rate box without the wood....
I do like the BENOS discount !!!!
So you don't see any improvement in accuracy or anything else over other coated bullets? What is your load? What gun are you using to test them?
I am using SP01 ACCU Shadow. Loading N310. I'm not comparing for bullseye accuracy. I'm just comparing the accuracy I need for USPSA. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy with the bullets. I got very little smoke, the barrel wiped clean after 500 or so and accuracy was very good.
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Going sub-minor sucks. I like 135PF.
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I received 2500 147. They shoot just as well as any coated 147. I like the fact they did not have a grease ring and they were semi FP.
I would make one comment to the owner of ACME...... The boxes are cool in a retail enviornment, but I'd rather have more bullets or the cost reduced. Those boxes have to add to the cost. Cool looking, but of no use to me. You could get more bullets in a USPS flat rate box without the wood....
I do like the BENOS discount !!!!
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I had this question asked of me during the last club match. The shooter who asked me was on another squad and I didn't see the event happen myself. So this is all second hand information on my part. But this is what was described to me. Paper target that required 2 hits has one "hole" in it but its oblong in size. Shooter believes its two very close hits on top of one another, but not a double since the hole is oblong, and calls for an overlay. The RO pushes in the back of the target to flatten out the hit/hole to use the overlay to make the call. The shooter disagrees with this manipulation of the target from the back side to use the overlay in confirming if its a single hit or two different hits.
I looked in the rule book but couldn't find anywhere that defines what an RO can or can't do from a target manipulation perspective. There are rules defining what competitors can do with regards to touching targets, but not RO's. Personally, I would never touch the back of a target to "Flatten out" the hit to make a call because doing so can change the actual size of the hole or angle of the hole which would make finding two distinct grease ring radius's very difficult or subjective. The only time I have "Manipulated" a target hit is to pull back a piece of tape to see the perf if the hit location is totally covered with tape. But even then, the hit is confirmed and I am simply trying to determine the value of the hit.
The RO in question just attended an RO class and claimed that the NROI instructor said "He could touch the target any way they want to determine the hit/score".
My question is this. What is the official NROI stance on manipulating the actual hole/hit in this scenario, such as pushing the hole back in from the back side of the target?
I higly doubt the Instructor said "...anyway you want" unless he was referring to placement of the overlay/s. The RO student didn't listen correctly or the Instructor's comments were taken out of context.
Worked a lot of matches to include NATS. Never saw a CRO or RM manipulate the back of a target.
I have seen this action by new ROs at local matches where targets are shot to shit. Most of time you have a big hole with the pasters pushed in and the shooter wants two hits based on the size of the hole. If I cannot determine the correct number of hits...It is called a RE-SHOOT. Range equipment failure would come to mind.
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Thanks for the info. I'm using an Accu Shadow.
Same here. I just started 147s with N310 for a 137 PF and they are quite accurate. I have data for the 135s with RC if you want it. Just PM me.
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I use Competition for x-treme 135 HP. Yes, the load is above the book. The Ramshot load data for a 147 is 3.4 at 1.165 for right at 125PF. I would be loading to a 131 to 135 PF--(because not all chronos read the same).
I don't have my loading book with me, but I can tell you the 135 loads primers look better than some store bought 9 ammo I have seen. Primers and a Chrono are your friend. My overall length is 1.140 to fit the mag. The lighter the bullet the more powder required
Published load data is "safe" for companies to put in print.
You did not mention what gun you are using--Some barrels don't like 147s. I've found 135s are a nice balance between 124s and 147.
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OK you SVI 9mm Major open guys/gals, what's your load? I have been working with Brandon to build me a new SVI open gun in 9 Major. Brandon recommends two popple holes in the barrel which is something different for me. He also recommended 10.0 to 10.2gr of 3N38 under a Montana Gold 124 gr JHP.
I picked up a pound of 3N38 today just to try it in my STI open gun which has a 5" Infinity Ultramatch barrel (no popple holes). With 9.0gr of 3N38 I was getting 172.1 power factor with a COL of 1.178". I really didn't want to run any hotter load out of the gun but I did try to get 10.0 to 10.2gr in the case and it was completely full! At 9.0gr the load was compressed since I had my dies to run at 1.165 COL and the shortest it would go with the powder was 1.178. At 10.0 I would have to adjust my crimp die just to hold the bullet on the case.
What are you guys/gals running? I normally run Silhouette, HS6, or AutoComp with my STI.
The 3N38 load you mention is normally for SVI IMM in 38S not 9MM. Sil or Hs6 is my choice for 9. I run 115s with 5 popple holes and 9 something of HS6.(I say "something" because all barrels vary in FPS)
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It is not, it is just the KKM that CK puts in it.
Cheeley Comp and 3 holes in the bbl.
In my experience with KKM 9 barrels, the barrels are faster than most.
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Lubing the cases makes the depriming/sizing effort a lot easier!
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The Lee U die is worth it. It will cure the buldge. From your pics--the ammo is the problem. If you can't get one (sometimes hard to find), then get the push through sizing die. It works. I don't even use case lube anymore. The 650 runs like a clock with pre-sized 40 brass.
You installed the AFTEC? Did you modify the firing pin stop correctly?
Is an affiliated club obligated to submit classifier scores?
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
If that is what the majority of members want, then our BOD should make it happen.