Pilot172

Yes Hwansik Kim did well with the PPQ at Nationals. Someone else won with a PPQ at the Florida match also I heard. As far as recoil, most are running the Springco recoil reducer with low power spring (white). It helps a lot.

I'm running the PPQ M2 4" this year in CCP. Haven't dropped it in an official box yet, but it should just fit. I'll be at the Razorback next weekend.

Thanks for the input!

Thanks sundevil and 57K for the excellent responses and info. I guess I wouldn't mind picking up that PPQ and just trying it out for myself side by side against my G19. Not much to do for aftermarket parts for it, Dawson sights is about it like you said. Even a reduced power spring is hard to find. Walther said I could use the PPQ Navy spring for reduced power loads, but they refuse to say what pounds the stock and Navy springs are, just that the Navy is less. I didn't know about the stepped chamber before you guys mentioned it. Thanks 57K for the info on the Canik. My LGS does have one there. I'll take a look at it next time there.

Thanks for the info. I do shoot IDPA and Production only. I'm planning to shoot 5 of the listed Walther matches, all IDPA and the Area 5. I'm sure I'd win 1 or more of those matches as I'm at the top of my division at the moment. Still, not really worth it to buy a new gun for just the money. My main reason was to try a different platform. I have only ever shot Glock's in competition. Just curious if I'd be even better or not with the PPQ. The contingency money was just an incentive to me to try it (which is Walther's plan I'm sure). Even if I don't like it, I can always sell it and be out a $100 or so. The local dealer has a like new PPQ M2 for $450 with 3 mags. I almost wouldn't lose any money at that price. But then again, why switch if the Glock is working well, other than to see how I like it.

Rule 9.3 states that a classification now applies to all semi-automatic pistol divisions. Does anyone know if this applies to BUG-S? BUG-S is a semi-auto, but it's not mentioned in the rule example (see below). Just wondering if I shoot a classifier in BUG-S division, and score higher than say my CCP classification, will I get bumped up in CCP also? 9.3 Universal Semi-Automatic Classification The classification attained by shooting the Classifier in any semi-automatic pistol division must be applied to all other semi-automatic pistol divisions. For example, if an SSP shooter receives an Expert classification, they are then also classified as Expert in CCP, ESP, and CDP

Thanks for the info guys. Just a little extra info on me and why I asked about the PPQ. The only reason I started to look in to the PPQ is because of the contingency money. I actually won one of their matches on the list last year so thought it would be interesting have a chance at some cash. That got me just to look at the PPQ, which I new nothing about before. I like the trigger and the feel, but I also like my Glock 19 and shoot it well. My G19 and G34 triggers are at 4.2 lbs with all OEM parts. It's actually feels pretty good for a Glock. I have several hundred dollars into my G19 including a Blacklist match barrel and AA magwell. I was just curious if the PPQ is that much better, if any, than a Glock, or at least worth trying just to try another platform. A few weeks ago I would have never ever considered anything else than my G19/34. Just a week ago I got sponsored by Blacklist and they are sending me a G34 barrel, so I'll probably just stay with my Glock's. I do reload all my own ammo. I'm sponsored by Zero Bullets so reload using their bullets. I thought most people reload their own ammo in competition. Everyone I have talked to reloads. I mostly shoot IDPA though, just starting in USPSA Production. As far as saving a few hundred on a gun, I spend at least $3000 a year competing (travel, ammo, match fees). Spending a few hundred more on a gun is nothing compared to the other costs.

I’ve searched numerous threads to see if the gen3 style captured steel guide rod (like the one by Jager Products) is legal in SSP in a gen4 gun. I know the polymer one is legal, but the steel rod is unclear. I submitted my question to IDPA. It took 2 months for a reply, but they said the steel rod is legal in SSP. Here is my original question, citing the 3 rules that effect the steel guide rod. “I would like to change out my dual recoil spring assembly in my Glock 34 to a single spring assembly. They come in steel or polymer. Can I use either one in SSP? 8.2.1.3.4 says "Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel" are allowed. Steel is lighter than stainless steel, so steel should be OK. But from the non-inclusive list, 8.2.1.4.5 Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design. I'm not sure what is meant by slide insert. The new single spring assembly will drop in place of the old dual assembly, so no insert? Also from the non-inclusive list is 8.2.1.4.1 "Externally visible modifications other than those listed in the Permitted Modifications section". Does this mean steel is not allowed because the stock rod is polymer?” Here is the response from Robert Ray: “As long as your replacement spring does not have and insert, something that makes the guide rod hole smaller for using a Gen3 guide rod, you would be good to go.” I'm keeping a copy of this email just in case I get checked!

I know KKM stopped making them for Blacklist about 2 years ago. I don't know if they make their own now or through a third party. I thought I read somewhere that it was still through a third party. Blacklist has their own tolerances and design requirements which make them different than say the KKM barrel when KKM made them.

I also did not like the Warren front sight. It did not cover the hole completely, plus would always come loose, even with locktite. The Dawson has a recess that fits into the hole and a flat top that covers it completely.

I tried the stock Glock sights, 3 dot sights, Warren Sevigny, and Trijicon HD's. I actually shot well with just the stock sights but wanted a red fiber front for faster acquisition. I then tried the Warren sights. They were good but I like the Dawson rears better with the serrated back. I have the HD's on one of my carry guns, the G26, that I shoot in GSSF and IDPA. That sight actually does well for me too, plus it's a good carry sight. Dawson has great service too and a nice website. They replaced a front sight for me free off charge (needed a different height).

I use a G19 and G34 gen4's in competition. I did a polish, put in a minus connector (OEM), replaced the trigger bar with a gen 3, and added a reduced power safety plunger spring. Pull went from 5.5 lbs to 4.2 lbs and feels good. Under $40.

I prefer Dawson.

They just did a test with all the major barrels and 3 different bullet weights. Bar-Sto was not included though, probably because they require fitting. Blacklist was #1 with 147gr. http://www.victorygunblog.com/blog/barrelrace17

I shoot the G34 and G19 in competition. Haven't even tried another brand, just used to them and they work well for me.

I don't know much about the PPQ M2 but know they are gaining popularity in the CCP division. They also are awarding cash for certain matches (about 10 per year) if you place 1st or 2nd. The WI IDPA championship is one of them. I placed 2nd there last year and would have won cash had I been shooting a Walther. I shoot a Glock 19 now. For those who have the PPQ, how do you like it? I heard the stock trigger is nice. I'm thinking about trying one out, but I do love my Glock. There are several matches on the Walther list this year that I'll be attending.

I like the CR Speed pouches for Production and also for IDPA. For IDPA you need to remove the adjustable knob and replace with a pan head screw.

I like the Comp-Tac International. Popular in IDPA.

You can buy direct from KKM. What bullet are you shooting? Their 1:20 twist rate is not ideal for 147gr 9mm.

Thanks Sarge!

Glock 34 in Production/SSP and the G19 in CCP. I normally shoot CCP.

I tested a Blacklist match grade barrel side by side with the stock OEM barrel in my G19. The Blacklist barrel hands down was more accurate than the stock barrel from a basic bench rest. All groups were tighter and some were amazing. I shot mostly 147gr JHP at 880 fps and 1 group of 124gr FP plated bullets at 1040 fps. The Blacklist did well with both. I used Mas Ayoob’s method for determining accuracy. He does his accuracy test the same way each time. His own words: “Each five-shot group was measured once for all the hits, and again for the best three, the latter measurement having proven over the years that it will come very close to what the same gun/load combination will deliver for all five shots from a machine rest. Most shooters can shoot from a benchrest a whole lot more easily and less expensively than setting up a Ransom machine rest, and this lets more readers see how close their own gun comes to the one the gun writer tested. All groups were measured from furthest shot to furthest shot, center to center of the bullet holes, to the nearest 0.05 inches.” Here is the data. I shot 6 groups with each barrel, 5 shots each. Stock Barrel, 15 Yards, 147gr JHP (Best 3 / All 5): 0.88” / 2.08” Blacklist Barrel, 15 Yards, 147gr JHP (Best 3 / All 5): 0.35” / 1.62” Stock Barrel, 25 Yards, 147gr JHP (Best 3 / All 5): 1.87” / 4.10” Blacklist Barrel, 25 Yards, 147gr JHP (Best 3 / All 5): 1.23” / 2.73” Blacklist Barrel, 15 Yards, 124gr FP (1 group only): 0.40” / 1.7” The Blacklist was noticeably better in every group shot. At 15 yards, the best 3 holes were touching most every time. It also met the match barrel claim of under 2” groups at 25 yards. It actually averaged 1.23” at 25 yards which is great! That being said, the stock barrel held its own with respectable groupings and also did under 2” at 25 yards, but the 5 shot average was much larger. The stock barrel definitely seemed to “wander” more, as seen by the 5 shot groups. The hits were spread out more. The Blacklist always had tighter and more consistent groups with the best 3 always very close. The Titanium Nitride (TiN) gold barrel looks great with the black slide. Previously, I wasn’t crazy about the gold color, but then it grew on me after looking at some pictures, so I decided to get that color. TiN usually costs about $50 more, but Blacklist does not charge extra. One negative about the TiN barrel is it gets dirty fast. The good thing is you can see the spots you missed when cleaning it. The Blacklist barrel has a fast 1:10 twist which is pretty much required to stabilize the heavy 147gr bullets. It also did well with 124gr plated bullets. I actually called KKM Precision first and asked for a 1:10 twist barrel. They said they only go down to 1:16, and that’s custom. Stock is 1:20. They did confirm for a 147gr bullet, that the best twist is a 1:10 twist, the 1:16 would be marginal, and the 1:20 would not work at all. I don’t understand why they don’t make a 1:10 twist as the 147gr is probably the most popular weight in competition. The Blacklist barrel has 8 flutes on it, which looks nice but also reduces some wanted weight. The stock barrel weighs 3.6oz and the Blacklist is 3.4oz. Reliability. The barrel ran 150 rounds without an issue. Time will tell if it’s 100% reliable. I am very happy with the Blacklist barrel. Will it make me a better shooter in competition? By law of averages it should. By how much, I don’t know. We’ll see this season how it goes. Of course your skill level has to be up there to take advantage of the additional accuracy. I feel the stock barrel did quite well and is more than good enough for competition. However the Blacklist match barrel was definitely tighter in all groupings, enough so that I’m very glad to have bought one. I plan to get one for the G34 next and do a similar test. One note on my G34, I shot 3 groups with it at 25 yards. It averaged 1.50” (3/5) and 2.67” (5/5). That’s pretty good for an OEM barrel! It still did not beat the Blacklist barrel though. The extra sight radius may have helped some too, even off a rest. I suggest before buying a match barrel, you do some serious testing of your stock barrel. You may have ended up with a really good one, or one good enough for your needs. 5 stars for the Blacklist barrel. It has everything going for it. It proved to be noticeably more accurate, is reliable (so far) and also looks great. I know some disagree with match barrels or the need for them. I spend a ton of money and time competing and I'll take any advantage I can. If you want to get that last little bit of accuracy out of your gun, there's no doubt you need a match grade barrel to get there. Yes a hand fit barrel may be better yet, but may also be too tight and therefore unreliable. This barrel fit tight and the groupings were almost twice as good over stock. What more can you ask for?

Hi all, new member from WI. I've been shooting IDPA, USPSA, and GSSF competitions for 2 years now. I've been reloading for 30+ years, since I was 16 years old. Lot's of good info on this site. Also, I was lucky enough this year to win one of the coveted 30th anniversary Glock's as seen in my avatar.

I reviewed that barrel test also by victorygun blog. I recently bought a Blacklist barrel and did my own testing and was very impressed with the results. I'll do a separate post on it. I originally was going to get a KKM but they only come in 1:20 twist and 1:16 (custom). KKM told me outright that 1:20 will not work with 147gr bullets, won't stabilze it, so went with the 1:10 Blacklist.

The Agency Arms is excellent. I have one on my G19. Fit and finish is perfect.