bret

doubt it will pass but Troy just approved a 2011 for use in single stack, so you never know.

quote the rule.

what rule says you can't reload "early" and take a mike?

fire 7, reload, fire 8, then 1 make up, no procedural penalty IMO. How would the R.O. know which targets the shooter was engaging?, how would they know the 9th shot wasn't a make up shot? fire 7, reload, fire 8, no penalty, but will have at least 1 mike. IMO.

in my hypothetical, he engaged t1 through t4, reloaded, engaged t1 through t4 and then a make up shot on t4. You can't penalize someone for taking to few shots on a target. Can you re engage a target after you have engaged it? If he engaged t1 through t4 with only 7 shots, reloaded and then engaged t1 through t4 with 8 shots, how would you score it? Did he still reload early?

If the shooter engaged t1 t2 t3 with 2 shots each, engaged t 4 with 1 shot, reloaded, engaged t1,t2,t3 and t4 with shots each in that order and then fired a make up shot on t4 as his last shot fired, how is that scored?

What procedural would you give for that? Post the applicable rule.

one shot at a target is engaging the target.

Not a ridiculous scenario, it is a way to shoot the stage without getting any procedurals. The mandatory reload is after engaging T1 -T4, T4 was engaged, then a reload occurred.

An extra shot does not equal an extra hit. Extra shot penalties are assessed at the shooting area, extra hits are assessed at the targets if there are any. Can't have extra shots when only 16 shots were fired in a 16 round cof. If a 5th shot ends up on a target then that is an extra hit.

for an extra shot penalty to be assessed, an extra shot would have to be fired, 16 shots fired in a 16 shot stage can't be an extra shot fired.

how could it be an extra hit when only 16 shots were fired, on a 16 round stage?

I missed that but I don't see how it would be 8 procedurals if shot in that order, as you are allowed make up shots after a reload, the reload was done after engaging T1 -T4 and the make shot was done after T1-T4 was engaged, as the make up shot was the last shot fired in my hypothetical.

I have a hypothetical on this classifier shooter engages T1, T2 and T3 with 2 rounds each, engages T4 with 1 round in that order, runs out of ammo. Reloads Engages T1, T2, T3 and T4 with 2 rounds each in that order and fired a 3rd shot at T4 as a make up shot. How would you score that?

8 procedurals, not 9.

It's usually on a multi string stage, where I verify it's a Mike preparing for the next string, so I fire 3 shots instead of 2 on the target with a Mike.

I have fired an extra shot on a Virginia count stage when I knew I had a Mike. The difference is being down 10 points instead of being down 15. I think virginia count has its place in matches.

how would it be 1 extra shot? Only 16 shots were fired in a 16 round virginia count stage, only 1 string.

In this case, fired 7 shots, reloaded and fired 9 shots, he gets 8 procedurals IMO.

I appreciate your input, helping to clarify how the rules can be applied. Thanks

in the case of firing 7 shots reloading firing 8 shots, the shooter got a Mike, that is -10 points, plus he lost any points he would have got by the shot assuming he hit the A zone, so that is losing 15 points on a 80 point stage, not good for your HF. But in the case of shooting 7, reloading firing 9, he reloaded, early, gets 8 procedurals IMO, would be better to either take the mike and only fire 8 shots after the reload.

10.2.2.1 Procedural penalties for failure to comply with stage procedures do not apply to the number of shots fired. Penalties for firing insufficient or additional shots are addressed in other rules and must not be penalized under the provisions of 10.2.2. Since he fired 7 shots, reloaded then fired 8 shots, I don't think he violated 10.2.4 10.2.4 A competitor who fails to comply with a mandatory reload will incur one procedural penalty for each shot fired after the point where the reload was required until a reload is performed.

I agree but it is good for people to know how to properly score a stage, even if the stage score ends up being a 0.

No procedurals, he can't be penalized for not taking the required shots, he does get the mike or mikes as the case may be. IMO he reloaded as the WSB required.