PatriotDefense
-
Posts
622 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Profiles
Events
Store
Posts posted by PatriotDefense
-
-
You guys are killing me with this flip flopping back and forth on spring weights. First its "lets go as light as possible" now it's "i want to set off depleted uranium cuped primers........". How bout we do a 22lb hammer spring and call it good.....
-
1 hour ago, IronArcher said:
Preload is how much a spring is compressed when the hammer is at rest.
Spring weights are based on distance compressed (i'm assuming we are talking per inch here #14= #14 per inch)
If you have a 5"spring #14 spring, and at rest it is compressed to 4" you have #14 of preload at rest. Add another 1" of travel (cocking) and you add another #14lbs....total of #28
If you have a 10" #4 spring, and put it in the same device, you will end up with #24lbs preload at rest, and #28 at max (cocked)
More power as the hammer gets closer to the primer vs the short heavy spring, MUCH less stacking, and the same weight when cocked.
Of course these numbers are simplified and not exactly what we are looking at, but the concept is the same.
A longer, lighter spring can hit harder, and have less stacking even with the same total weight when cocked as a short heavy spring.pretty much summed it up in a simplified way.... Thanks!
-
56 minutes ago, LegionShooter said:
Tracking. I intend to order one from y'all along with your firing pin once it's in stock. In the meantime, am I better off with the Wolff fp spring or factory?
Best bet is to cut coils off either one in the meantime..... the down fall to this is some guns require so many coils to be cut that the firing pin becomes stuck in the breach face or in front of the FPB. It will amaze you how much harder of it hit you get with the lighter firing pin spring.
I just got word that our next batch of firing pins have been shipped and headed back to us from heat treat. so be on the lookout by about Monday for them.
-
45 minutes ago, johnbu said:
Excellent data and it matches what I've seen exactly with my NIST calibrated trigger finger.
The PD product was engineered to be more precise and rated based on reality then manufactured to a higher standard. But they aren't magic, you still need higher quality ammo and a correctly tuned gun to allow the lighter springs to work with 100% reliability.
And if you use primers made from pounded out sheets of eastern European tank armor, [cough cough MemphisMechanic! cough cough], you may need even stouter springs. lol. Eagerly awaiting his report on the 15.5's.
By no means are ours perfect, I'll be revisiting the design of the ones that tested lower than advertised. I would prefer to be slightly higher than the advertised spring rate to give a little room for margin or error in manufacturing.
6 minutes ago, waktasz said:Interesting that the patriot 14 tests lighter than the EG light. Mine feels heavier and pops primers better than the light.
Im sure we can run this a few more times with a different batch of springs and get different results. It seemed that the Wolff springs varied greatly between one another, and the EG and PD springs where much closer between the 3 test springs used for that model.
-
14 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:
Were the Wolff springs wildly inconsistent, like their recoil springs?
Oh Ya, they differed by 2-3 coils and had 2-3lb difference between springs of the same model.
-
Ok.... so we spent some time testing the actually Spring Rate of various hammer springs used for our beloved Tanfoglio Pistols. The information below was compiled by taking the average of 3 compression cycles across 3 samples of the same spring. So basically we ended up with 9 compression cycles for each given spring sample (all springs where brand new at the start). Test machine was Chatillon CS-225 Digital force tester with up to date calibration certs.
Factory Hammer Spring- Average of 18.8lbs
Wolff 13lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring rate of 14.1lbs
Wolff 14lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring rate of 14.6lbs
Wolff 15lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring rate of 16.6lbs
EG Light (13.8lb) Hammer Spring- Average Spring Rate of 14.1lbs
EG Medium (15.5) Hammer Spring- Average Spring Rate of 16.5lbs
Patriot Defense 10lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring Rate of 9.8lbs
Patriot Defense 12lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring Rate of 12.4lbs
Patriot Defense 13lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring Rate of 13.2lbs
Patriot Defense 14lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring Rate of 13.8lbs
Patriot Defense 15.5lb Hammer Spring- Average Spring Rate of 15.1lbs
So as you can see some of these spring rates across the various manufacturers are pretty close yet give us totally different feels in the guns. a lot of this has to do with the overall design (length, coil count, wire diameter, ID, OD) of the spring as well as material used. One large factor this doesn't take into consideration is the amount the OD of the spring increases as its compressed, this here is your leading cause of the felt "stacking" in guns. Basically the OD of the spring ends up contacting the spring pocket wall which creates drag and increases the felt trigger pull as your now battling friction.
-
On 2/6/2017 at 8:03 PM, LegionShooter said:
Well, so far I've done the "minimum" upgrades people were talking about. Gun runs great and trigger feels great as well. I did load dev this weekend and shot another hundred rounds today after I put my new springs in it. After polish and springs only I had 99% success rate out of 100 rounds. One round required a double strike with no issues on the second go around.
Internal specs so far are the standard polish job, PD 14lb hammer spring, PD trigger return spring, PD sear spring, Wolff 10lb recoil spring, and the Wolff firing pin spring that came with the recoil spring. All other internal parts are stock, except for the Canik trigger pin that was waiting on me when I got home from the range and is now in the gun.
Load is 124gr Acme RN over 4.0gr N320 at 1.095 OAL. Using WSP primers so not the softest, but not the hardest either.
Just reiterating what Johnbu said about the firing pin spring setup your running. The one that comes with the Wolff recoil spring is extremely stiff and your loosing a lot of energy through that spring.
-
42 minutes ago, johnbu said:
I bet it was sweetly smooth all the way back too !
Like Butter!!!!
-
13 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:
Okay, good. Giving up only 1 pound with the PD 15.5 makes me think that it might just run like a top, as opposed to being a full two pounds lighter.
On the trigger pull gauge we had a full 1 pound difference in DA between our 15.5lb spring and the EG medium. As stated before we had no issues eating whatever we put in the gun....... descent polish job, go fast parts, and a properly reamed chamber.
-
1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:
Okay. So the EGD Medium is barely any lighter than the factory spring at all.
Intresting.
I fat fingered the thread above the EG medium was 16.5lbs......average.
-
8 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:
I hope you're being sarcastic. I want to know what it rates at!
It's advertised as a 16lb-17lb (ish) spring, however the average across 5 different factory springs gave us just shy of 18.8lbs
-
11 minutes ago, johnbu said:
What does the factory spring rate measure?
It broke the machine......
-
On a gun that had a 5.5lb DA with a 12lb spring the 15.5 brought it up to a crisp 7.5lb DA and the SA increased from 2.2lbs to 2.6lbs. Its launching about 3-4" below the EG medium spring in DA however the EG medium spring we used came in at a whopping 16.5lb spring rate. We ran through 50 DA only shots with feds, wins, CCI, Wolf, and S&B with no light strikes what so ever. The gun has about 20,000rnds through it, nothing to special on the polish job, and of course all the go fast parts. I think this will be your answer for you guys that find it acceptable to have a heavier trigger pull weights and a gun that eats just about everything. Hope you enjoy, its color coded pink by the way for easy identification.
-
10 hours ago, OPENB said:
I'm holding off on an order until the 15# spring becomes available.
Should be on the website this evening.......
-
We've noticed for the first 3-5K rounds through a Tanfo it's best to clean every 600-800rnds. After that you can really stretch out your detail cleanings to 2-3K rounds through the gun..... if you choose.
-
5 hours ago, IronArcher said:
At least it's smooth travel now. I can live with it.
If the hooks are too tall, can't we just cut them down a bit?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProYes you can...... However you need to ensure you can cut the hooks and keep them straight and concentric with the sear face. You'll also need to re-profile the hook angle in order to prevent a hammer hook to sear face interface that could cause inadvertent hammer drop or release and make the firearm unsafe. Its not as easy as "taking a bit off the top"......
-
The creep you guys are seeing is strictly a Hammer/Sear interference issue. Nothing more nothing less, it's taking that much trigger movement to lift the Sear out of the hammer hooks due to an inefficient cut on the hooks or possibly the hooks being to tall. Only way to properly cure this is cut down the hooks and then re-profile the hook angle to ensure the Sear doesn't slip off to early or inadvertently.
-
2 hours ago, ArrDave said:
Sounds like the gunsmith who he got to install it did in fact fit it and was worried he "over fit" it... that's probably the issue
It's reloads he is having issue with, and it's only Feds he uses seated so the slightly are deformed on a 1050.
I think he is using the 13 or 14# PD spring. Zero problems in SA.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSounds like he blew through the wing on the BOLO, he shouldn't have a problem popping Feds with those spring weights.....
-
50 minutes ago, waktasz said:
Upon further review, my gun with the Titan in it was behaving almost in an M&P like fashion. The hammer was camming back a bit as I was pulling through the creep, before eventually breaking. I bet it has more to do with the angles of the hammer hooks than the length.
If it's camming back your probably right about the angle of the hooks, hence why we get such good results after cutting the Titan hooks back and slightly re-profiling them.
-
@IronArcher I think you have some other issues going on in your gun that's accompaning what your seeing. I just glimpsed through your other thread about your safety no longer working in your gun, and you still have the factory hammer, and Sear installed, correct?
-
11 minutes ago, hwansikcjswo said:
My experience with 1wing ./ 2 wings affected the SA as well.
When I used 2 wings, SA was breaking more crisp.
You can cut the wing/wings off of an interrupter and it will not affect your SA pull/break.
-
4 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:
This.
The BOLO doesn't push the hammer back quite as far as the original disconnector, but it's supposed to be pretty close.
Might need to fit it as shown in the BOLO instructions that @PatriotDefense posted. The BOLO is not usually something you can install with a Delta hammer without requiring fitting.
MM is correct, a BOLO will require some fitting to function properly with a delta. Without knowing what exactly has been done or installed it's hard to throw any remedies out.
-
5 minutes ago, hwansikcjswo said:
You gotta use 2 wings Interruptor for Titan hammer.
I had the same issue you described when I used 1 wing (factory) Interruptor
EGD sells 2 wings
I had all the Extreme parts and Titan with 2 wings interr, which is IPSC legal set up.
The trigger was as awesome as Delta.
Link : https://www.ericgrauffelonlineshop.com/en/frame-parts/50-interruptor.html
.
He's not having a problem in DA, it's his SA that he's seeing a large amount creep. Dual wings could possible help out in DA As the trigger is pulled since the trigger bar cocks the hammer by pushing on the front faces of the disconnector "wings". As the trigger bar moves back, it is pushed down by ramps on the underside of the ejector cage. When it is pushed down far enough, the trigger bar slips under the wings of the disconnector and the hammer drops.
-
The BOLO eliminates/reduces the amount of pre-travel/takeup on the SA pull by "pre-loading" the trigger bar as far back in its pull as possible (if done correctly). Once you hit the wall in your SA pull the rest of the trigger pull is lifting the Sear out of the hammer hooks by the trigger bar riding the Sear leg that it contacts in order to lift it in SA. In his videos it does seem like he's got a rather short take up but pulling quite a bit to release the Sear from the hammer hooks......
Tested!! Hammer springs & PF Firing Pin Pencil Test
in Tanfoglio (EAA / IFG)
Posted
that might be two complicated because with the spring installed does that make it an AOW or possibly a Destructive Device requiring further paperwork and licensing from the ATF since it destroys deep space satellites?