Robco

Yeah that sucks. But it is what it is. Just have to try to keep yourself occupied with other safe stuff for a while. I am in VA now, to shoot VA/MD Section Championship Saturday with my youngest son (28 and my business partner and his 15 year old son). Going bass fishing on Potomac today. Stay well and preserve your surgical repair.

Ken, I agree - do not rush it and tear up your repaired wrist. I have had a couple of shoulder surgeries and the repairs are very fragile for a long time. Just takes a few seconds to undo it all. Just like match performance - tortoise and hare dude. Rushing is NOT faster in the long run.

Ha! I fear that. I am not even buying any big sticks so I cannot compete with it! But see many top shooters switch between open and iron sights continuously, so am hoping it will not become TOO comfortable shooting open at my advanced age of 56! Rocking chair will have to wait a few more years!

I am with Nimitz here. It depends. But, remember, the distinction is really a false one, because if properly performed, aiming shots is "neither" and "both." I know that sounds odd or internally inconsistent. I asked Ben Stoeger about his claims of using "target focus" out to 20 yards and beyond, and he simply answered, "just because I am focused on the target does not mean I do not see the front sight." Profound. That was the key to my understanding and resolution of this inquiry. Robco .... you're right, just because you are using a target focus does not mean you are not looking at and seeing the front sight, you just don't have that singular, razor sharp front sight with everything else being secondary like you would for a 25 yd partial. Seeklander and Anderson have told me the same thing as Ben did but I've always been too lazy to write out the whole detailed explaination since I knew that was what I was doing - that, and I'd assumed most people understood that except for very close targets where indexing the gun on brown is enough, you are always using your sights to some degree.With a dot gun its very different since the dot does not go in and out of focus depending on where I'm looking like with iron sight focusing. Whether I'm just staring intently at the dot or looking through the dot at the target it always looks the same to me .... this enables me to focus more on the target which yields faster transitions .... Ken, how is the hand/wrist healing up? I tested this one day by taping over my rear sight while shooting my limited gun. I SUCKED even on 3 yard open target arrays with fast (.15 splits and .18 transitions) when I could not see my rear sight due to the tape (and therefore not front sight either). Shot the same arrays both ways, repeatedly, with and without the tape on the sights and proved conclusively that I ALWAYS need to and actually DO (apparently) "see" my rear and front sights on every shot. Without being able to "see" my sights I was slower and less accurate, always, even on 3 yard targets. Interesting, huh.

you certainly have a higher awareness of the dot on longer shots. and typically a slower shot as i'm being more careful in the trigger press. with the open gun I struggled for a long time to shoot both eyes open too. took me ages and for a while I had not noticed I was shooting 2 eyes. I only noticed when I picked up an iron sight gun and suddenly realised I was shooting it 2 eyes open! Robco, you'll get it eventually. it took me ages too. with the open gun it's all about fast transitions. everyone can run 20 splits or less with an open gun. but you really need to aggressively drive the thing from target to target. to do that you need both eyes open and you are looking to the target, then the dot comes into view over the target, as it reaches the right point you pull the trigger, dot does a little wiggle, goes up, comes down, you fire again and as soon as that shot goes off (while dot is still doing his little wiggle) you're eyes are moving to the next target. I also would avoid say dot or target focus. I'd say you are looking at the target, but have an awareness of the dot. the harder the shot the greater the awareness of the dot. nowhere more so than open does it require you to 'see fast' or you get left for dead. i'm still learning..... BeerBaron - Interesting advice here. I just bought an open gun and got it this Saturday. Only had some 5 year old 38 super loads I had made for a SS pistol, so only shot a dozen to function test and chrono. Worked great at very light loads and had one 165 pf round to test it with too. So I have NO experience with the open guns. Travis Tomasie insisted that I get an open gun to help break me through to a new level in my Limited shooting. Finally found a great deal on an 8 year old gun that had only 100 rounds through it! So I am anxious to train with it soon! I think it is physically impossible to actually focus on the dot. Have read that somewhere. I believe the main point Travis is making for me to train with an Open gun (Max Michel says the same thing by the way), is that it will eliminate the sight picture bottleneck of time with the iron sights, allowing and then forcing the open shooter to seek the next target sooner and quicker. Transition speed-up! I can mentally understand this, yet have not experienced it myself since I just got my open gun. The promise is that once I speed up with the open gun, it will transfer the transition speed over to my limited shooting. I will keep you posted here in a few weeks with this experiment!

FTDMFR - This has been my own experience too, especially the frustration of repeatedly failing to trust my own game. I found that, of course, the first step is to actually develop the skills you can be confident in. Second, getting enough match experience to eliminate the negatives of mental errors due to match pressure we impose on ourselves. Third, have the COURAGE to actually shoot a match at your own capability to prove the results to yourself. This has been the hard thing for me. I invest so much time and money and heart into improving my USPSA performance and skills, that I inadvertently assure my own failure, due to the inevitable "trying" too hard on match day. I hunger for wins, so winning has become too important and thus dominates my mind, even though I KNOW that will sabotage my match performances. So, on some occasions, like when I am not feeling good on match day (due to being ill or tired, etc), I mentally "surrender" my ambitions and mentally accept that I do not really have any reason to EXPECT to do well that day. And magically, these often turn out to be among my best match performances. From this I proved to myself that I was getting in my own way every match, by piling on too much pressure on myself regarding the outcome of the match. "Letting go" was the final key. I have finally accomplished doing so consistently in club matches. So next step is to carry this same mindset and mentality into bigger matches, where I would naturally put more pressure on myself. Baby steps. Here is another post on the same subject: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211478#entry2387695

Exactly right Steve. I am finally getting out of my own way! Just made a similar comment in another post: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211478#entry2389664

Steve- I found this out the hard way. Although I have been aware of the issue, I have for two years failed to figure out how to get out of my own way. I have repeatedly attempted to train and shoot my way to success over the mental game, making little progress despite my skills vastly improving during the same time frame. It really boiled down to honestly having confidence in my shooting, and the requisite "letting go" and trusting that my actual capability was good enough and fast enough. Your new book, "Get To Work: The Practice of More Points Per Second" is a great source of information and has been instrumental in my finally achieving some success. Thanks!

Yep. It is amazing yet ridiculous, that until now, I have NEVER actually known what my capabilities were, since I always sabotaged my match performances by "trying." Thanks Brian.

This really resonates with me Brian. This Saturday, I shot 97.7% of possible points in a club match in Bozeman, MT which is probably as high an accuracy level as I have ever achieved. And my time was only 3 seconds behind a double GM who is very fast. I attribute this to a lot of emphasis on accuracy, and seeing every single shot in the match. A real eye opener for me. I have won the last 4 club matches I have shot (not the usual for me) so I think I have finally crossed the much desired threshold of shooting as fast as I can see, consistently. Been a long hard road getting here for me. We so often get hypnotized about speed so much that we forget to shoot well. I will shoot the VA/MD sectional in 2 weeks which should be a good test of my progress, as there will be top competition, including Phil Strader.

I am with Nimitz here. It depends. But, remember, the distinction is really a false one, because if properly performed, aiming shots is "neither" and "both." I know that sounds odd or internally inconsistent. I asked Ben Stoeger about his claims of using "target focus" out to 20 yards and beyond, and he simply answered, "just because I am focused on the target does not mean I do not see the front sight." Profound. That was the key to my understanding and resolution of this inquiry.

So does Lesgar live in Florida? Not Bahamas? That would explain why he is at all the Florida matches! He is a fast dude.

Interesting. Brian says the same thing, that being nervous is irrelevant as long as you do not tense up. Matt Burkett had a nice piece of advice I use myself successfully. He will NOT stare at the targets or anything, and simply looks down at the ground after making ready, until the "are you ready command.' Then he breathes deeply and moves his eyes to the first target, thus avoiding both eye strain and getting tense. Also says if you can wiggle your toes at that point, you are not tense. A nice "routine" which has great benefits and no distractions. Another thing I do, which I learned from Todd Jarret, is dropping my mag once or twice halfway out after making ready, to not only make sure it will come out (It could have been stepped on, etc) but also I find it gives my hands something to do which "warms" them up ready and coordinated right before the start signal. After not handling your gun for perhaps well over an hour between your shooting each stage, it helps get your coordination and confidence ready at the last moment. (I do NOT, Bill Seevers, test all 5 mags on my belt like Todd does during making ready, taking a lot of time and driving everyone crazy! HA!).

Nice distinction Sac Law Man. Travis Tomasie asked me recently if I was aiming at a small spot on the steel plate, or target, not just the whole thing, when helping me analyze a weakness in my game. If it could be measured, I think you would discover that the additional time it actually takes you/me to refine the aim as you described, takes less than 5/100ths of a second to accomplish, and makes all the difference in the world in accuracy.

That is all fantastic, BeerBaron! Thanks for sharing your success story. You are an inspiration and proof that training works.

Ken, I had a great time training with you. Hope your wrist is all fixed now and you will be back to the shooting soon. Since it is entering your hot season, I think you chose your timing wisely! Don't rush your recovery or you will set the progress/healing back. Remember, there is a LOT of this you can train on, without a gun at all! Take care my friend, and keep in touch. Rob

This is really an intense point Brian. I have been thinking about your clarification and the prior post for days now, trying to figure out what it means, in terms of my own experience. One thing I can say, is that I have recently embraced, adopted, executed on and even trained another shooter "with," the idea of having at all times while shooting a stage, a HUNGER and eagerness to shoot the next shot at the soonest/earliest possible time. This becomes so primary in my stage performance that it essentially drives everything that happens. All the mechanics and techniques and skills are "lead" by this prime "feeling" and "desire" which I think is what you are calling INTENT. It is so pervasive and constant and automatic when I am shooting a stage, that it HAS to be subconscious - because so much is happening so fast, DIRECTED BY this "intent," it could not possibly be conscious thought. I am dancing around this crucial point of yours, and have been for some time, and think it is becoming clear to me now. Everything we do, ALL actions, while properly shooting a stage, should be to this end, to accurately shoot the next shot at the soonest and earliest possible time, one after another. And THAT, is my entire intent. (e.g., instead of any thoughts such as "go faster" or "try harder" etc.). All actions flow automatically guided by this intent.

I like that leeb10! Especially the INTENT part. I have found myself actually thinking and acting with intent guiding my performance since listening to Enos' book for the last two months.

Yeah man! Doing otherwise is literally operating with "tunnel vision" and seriously impedes fast and accurate transitions! Had a great time practicing with you Ken! Will see you around Nationals if not sooner.

This weekend I rediscovered the important aspect of fast target acquisitions, in moving the eyes to the next target ahead of the gun. Not only should the eyes LEAVE the last target first, as soon as the shot is called "good," but they should find the next target before the gun gets there. As basic, logical and fundamental as this is, I still often find myself failing to do this, and suffer the consequences of both a slow transition and an inaccurate landing of the gun on the new target. EVERYTHING slows down when you move your gun WITH your eyes (basically eyes staying on the sights while transitioning). The visual acquisition is much slower, as the eyes are slowed down by the slower moving gun. And finding the target is harder and therefore slower since the sights/gun and hands are in the line of sight. And the actual movement of the hands and gun is slower because it is less deliberate and indecisive since the next target has not yet been seen/found. And finally it takes longer to get the gun aligned on the target since not having the eyes already on the target, loses the "preview" and hand-eye coordination - resulting in usually either stopping the gun short of the aim point, or swinging past the target too far and having to adjust back to the target/aim point. I think this is probably one of the most common time wasters in transitions, and the wider the transition, the more time wasted. And it is easy to fix, by doing dry fire drills with a pen/pencil, if not a gun, with 1 inch spots on walls about 8 feet away, with a 45% or more transition angle between the dots. It is easy to create the skill and "habit" of moving the eyes first and by so doing, learn the FEEL of this coordinated mechanic. It can become second nature fast. Just be sure to FINISH the last shot on the prior target before moving the eyes to the next one!

Ha! Not sure if you are joking Brian, but that would be a good idea. I was just listening to your audio book where you spoke about eventually getting to the point with reloads where you do it by feel. I agree.

This video I made illustrates a real life example of "Aiming thru a wall" from my own 2015 Area 2 Match performance video. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=210804&page=3#entry2354308 for more information and background https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cDsUKOexQg&feature=youtu.be

Here is another recent post and long thread with a TON of useful info on this related subject. Transitions. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=210804#entry2343809

I made a related reply to another post last night, and wanted to reference it in this topic instead of repeating it. Some of it is repetitious, but some nuances too. I am DEEPLY immersed into this exact subject right now in my shooting, full time. So lots of revelations occurring to me, almost daily. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205039#entry2366742

Hi Kelly. I just found this post, so hope you are still following it a few months after the last reply. We have shot together, and you shoot with my son, Sam Cook too. I know you are a big guy, about 6-4 if memory serves. So you have some advantages you may not be realizing, with your long legs. BUT, I can tell you that running faster, while it MAY save some time, is not the real key to where you will close the time gap with the GMs. Several of the replies above have touched on good points. Here are some thoughts to consider. First, always track your time compared to a top level GM if possible. In your example, you took 38% more time than the winner did in the match. Assuming he was a TOP tier GM, that is a pretty big delta. If the winner was NOT a top tier GM, then your gap is even larger. As a "paper" M class, I shot 40% more time than top GMs a year ago and in 2014 trimmed that down to 30%. Now I am at 20% after a huge amount of training and shooting this winter. So now I am finally at a solid M class speed. And this assumes adequate accuracy which you should always track as well, meaning you should shoot between 90 and 95% of points possible, before penalties (and there should be almost NO penalties). If you are shooting below 90% of possible points then you are running the gun too hard and probably too fast. And if you are over 95% then you need to speed up and trade off some accuracy for more speed. 137 Winner's time 189 Your time 52 More time than the winner 37.96% More time than the winner So back to the methods of shaving time off of your performances. Splits is NOT the place to find much savings, as the difference between the best shooters and average one's split times is measured in hundredths of a second. However, the differences in Transition speeds are measured in tenths of a second. = 10X the potential time savings. Transitions are composed of many elements, and movement from location to location is a big one. But the amount of time you can probably gain by simply running faster, is minimal probably. What is much more important is how soon you can be ready to fire the next shot. Transitions are measured between last shot on prior target and first shot on next target. This time period can be composed of many elements, including movement across the ground, gun movement, target acquisition, sight picture acquisition, trigger prep, etc. I suggest you focus on how to be READY to fire the next shot SOONEST. The usual facets of accomplishing this are, explosive departure, quick footwork, having the gun up ready to aim at the earliest possible time, controlled arrival to the new location - meaning smoothly landing so as not to cause a lot of violent body and gun motion which requires waiting to settle before being able to shoot again, and prepping the trigger (really re-acquiring the grip) prior to actually aiming the shot. One way to THINK is to be eager to shoot the next shot as soon and as early as possible for every transition. With many transitions, you have an unavoidable time delay before being able to engage the next target, whether because it cannot be seen or is obscured behind a wall or prop or N/S until you move into the next location. BUT this does NOT prevent you from having the gun up in shooting position, "aiming thru a wall" while you are approaching the new location. And then the instant the target is in view, you should be able to instantly aim and execute the shot without further delay. This "technique" alone can save a full second or more off of each such transition when compared to a slower shooter arriving where the target can be engaged, THEN stopping and setting up, THEN re-establishing the grip, THEN raising the gun, THEN locating the target, THEN aiming, THEN prepping the trigger THEN finally releasing the shot. ALL of those steps could instead be completed before and while arriving at the location where the target first becomes engage-able. Aside from shooting on the move, which, when possible and appropriate, can save a lot of time, there are other movement techniques which can be used much more often to save cumulatively a huge amount of time. This is shooting while leaving a location and shooting while entering a location. These are a lot easier to do than one thinks, and few stages do not provide opportunities to utilize these techniques to save time. Here is a good overview of these particular types of movement skills. Think of our game as "points per second" which is the definition of Hit Factor (HF). Any time the clock is running and we are not putting holes in paper, we are LOSING POINTS at the rate of our HF on that stage. Read that again. This makes it clear that we must minimize the time when we are not actually shooting. Or said another way, we want to be shooting as much of the time as we can. Until you get your time difference between your time and the top GM shooter's time down to 20%, these NON-shooting skills are where you should focus your training and attention. Later, you can work on transitions other than the movement aspects (such as faster sight picture capability, etc). But until you reduce all the BIG time wasters as discussed above, I would not worry much about your shooting speed itself. See you soon at the VA/MD Section.