IHAVEGAS

I got mine back from STI with a 14 lb spring and flgr. So far that does not feel bad at all (at about 171 pf). As noted, I do not miss the recoil master

Understood. I would call it out of accordance with 8.2.2.3.2.

8.2.2.3.2. Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts. If I was forced to make the call on your gun I'd do it the easy way, dq on the oversized mag release and ignore the serrations all together That said, I think that if it removes metal other than as allowed above then I think it would be hard to be the equipment check guy and not feel like there was a duty to consider this to be a very attractive gun with a lightened slide.

If you want it for CDP (165 power factor minimum and I've seen factory winchester white box target ammo make slightly over 200 pf in a 1911 ) you might find a recoil control disadvantage compared to heavier 1911's or might just get tired of shooting a relatively heavy load in a relatively light gun. If you don't have a problem with this, or reload way down and run in ESP or SSP, I personally like your choice.

I think if frugality is appropriate in any one place in the entire world of competitive shooting, it is the silly fishing vests. Goodwill stores need love too, so my advice is to grab any old thing that swings free & feels warm/cool (i.e. buy two) off the shelfs. I'd personally go with something blues brothers for cool weather and something very similar with arms cut off for when it is hot.

Still digging into stuff in case there is general interest. Perusing the new IDPA rulebook under ESP regulations (8.2.2.1.4) and Match Equipment Check Guidelines (1.4.1.12.) doesn't give me any detail beyond 'fits in the box'. The old rulebook on ESP guns (page 21 D.) says "Fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 3/4 x 6 x 1 5/8 with an empty magazine inserted". USPSA rules (I know they don't apply here but are interesting) have things nailed down pretty nicely "Handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16 x 6 x 1 5/8 (tolerance + 1/16, -0)". My conclusions at this point are; 1. If I'm doing the inspection duties, if a person can get his gun with empty magazine in the box & close the lid, I'm going to pronounce him good to go. All doubt goes in favor of the shooter is a general principle of the sport and I'd apply it here until I found something official that said otherwise. 2. Any problem with the loaded start in the box thing can't override the 'fits in the box with empty magazine inserted rule'. I.E. it would be a no no to design a stage such that legal equipment could not be used. 3. It is interesting that USPSA added another 3/16 to the length (or IDPA subtracted same) and it is handy that they clarified the box tolerance. 4. Pragmatically speaking, I think I'll just crown the barrel (or maybe take length off the grip safety tang) when time permits, to stay away from debate. Would be interesting to know if some Eagles (mine is a 2013 manufacture) perhaps have longer barrels or safety tangs than others.

No magwell, and like you I was surprised that there was an issue. I could have the barrel crowned, which makes a reasonably cheap fix for getting the gun into battery but I'm hoping somebody knows if there is an official answer out there somewhere so I won't be wasting $'s if I don't need to (and I prefer the look as is). The start in the box stage question is interesting also, since revolvers don't fit in the box without the lid being askew I don't know if other guns would need to? The last piece that makes things persnickety is that the 'official' wooden IDPA boxes are not neccessarily exact in internal dimensions, particularly the ones that have been stored in a shed somewhere (no climate control) for a few years, I measured the one at my local club Saturday & it is right on the height dimension but about 1/16" short on length (I need a just smidge more than the 1/16" however).

I've got a 100% stock STI Eagle that will go in the IDPA box if you push the 100% stock magazine up slightly and pull the slide back very slightly out of battery. Does that mean it fits in the box because you can close the lid after you carefully wedge the gun in place just so, or does it mean it does not fit ? Seems like it is a don't fit thing because dimensions very slightly exceed box dimensions, but a lot of folks are using this gun for IDPA and I haven't found any "non IDPA legal" stuff written about the Eagle so maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong.

Put a new (month or so old) Edge back together after cleaning last week. After assembly, the new style recoil master in it will not let the barrel move down far enough to drop out of engagement with the slide. Called the good and always helpful folks at STI and found out that if the new style rm's get their springs wadded up just so then this is what happens. I don't know how often it happens but I do know that I didn't get a patent for being the first one to discover the phenomenon. STI will fix it and I will be happy again (I asked them to convert me to FLGR while they were fixing things), just don't have my new toy to play with for a while. I hate it when this happens. Other thing. Shipping the gun back UPS was a major pain. Per UPS's website I shipped at a UPS hub counter and told the lady it was a firearm. She had me confirm that the gun was empty and there was no ammo in the box. After I left they opened the box and tried to rack the slide & couldn't of course. I later got a call from them saying that they couldn't ship the gun as they could not tell whether or not it was loaded. I called them and talked through some other options for verifying the chamber was empty (pencil down barrel, flashlight shining down barrel, etc.) , they said they would get with supervision and call me back. Didn't get a call so I called them back and was told that "you will just have to come here and take the gun back". Drove there again (40 miles) and I think it must have been after a shift change between the time I called and the time I got there. I asked to see the supervisor and he was a very reasonable person who just said "I have to be 100% certain that the gun is empty" , so we stuck a pencil down the barrel and when he saw the eraser through the gap at the back of the barrel then all was good.

Mine shot better groups with 147 s and 124 s than with 115's.

I think the grip safety makes a lot more sense when you think about the dynamics of a dropped gun and add that the thumb safety might usually be off when this happens. It would be interesting to see test data where folks dropped race guns from various heights with and without gs's, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for the data . For competition purposes, if I get a bad grip on the gun I am not going to shoot well, the safety telling me I've hosed the grip seemed like an advantage during the adjustment phase. I don't see folks having problems with them after they have used them for a bit, but apparently some folks do.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. He showed up, to a USPSA match and broke a rule that would have DQed him in IDPA and most all the 3Gun matches I have been to. 3 gun anyway, not that it is important. As best I can tell (from talking with 5 s.o.'s, or 6 if I include me, one guy had to take the on line test twice though so maybe call it 5 1/2) IDPA would get you a 3 second ouch unless you also muzzled yourself (holstered) or broke the 180 etc. Not important, nobody is fussing I don't think.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/153418/glockworx-race-connector-glock-all-models-2-lb

He was wrong. It is a growth thang "Hardship refines the spirit, and the best time to refine the spirit is when you don't have any other option". Have been thinking a bit about the dynamics of a trigger assembly / unbound spring mass system / when a gun comes to a sudden stop. Still like grip safeties on a 1911, there are practical limits to my personal growth .

I just tested a batch of 3.5 clays, 1.18 oal , 180 Bayou's, Eagle. 866 fps 155 pf on my stuff. Not a powder puff load but a fun to shoot load and no need to mess with the gun. It sort of makes the Eagle in IDPA feel similar to an Edge with a 168-172 pf load which is handy under my circumstances.

Yup, this is the way to go for ESP. 9 or 40 doesn't matter, either will kick ass with a 2011. Can't tell from the picture if you have shortened the barrel on this one or not. Mine and a friend's, both with Dawson precision's fiber optic front sight and STI's smaller tactical magwell, will not fit in the IDPA box unless you actually have the slide about 1/8" back out of battery. Maybe this is box legal as you can close the box lid, or maybe it isn't as you have the gun wedged in and the recoil spring is pushing on the side of the box. Don't know how a major match official would see things, and don't want the wedged in thing for one of those 'start with gun in box stages'. Didn't check to see if slide was still close enough to in battery to allow thumb safety to be on. If we can verify that some weirdo rule doesn't prevent it (anti lightening or custom work or whatever) we are going to get the barrels crowned close to flush to eliminate any issues. Should look cool and does not cost too much if you have a local gunsmith. For what it is worth. I hate it when you go to pains to buy all "IDPA Legal" stuff and then still don't make size or weight. Slick looking grip !!

Hi. Actually at this point I'm just looking for an exit strategy to the thread. My intent was to agree with everything noted above in a previous post a few days back. A wiser person would not have made my most recent reply but I wanted an answer to the question posed for my personal benefit and I hate the idea of any innocent 3rd party getting associated with anything negative that was all my doing, probably just paranoia on my part. I hereby DQ myself for being crazy enough to ask an IDPA question on a USPSA forum. We can perhaps all agree that this is risky behavior.

You can put things together pretty easy with a bit of snooping on match results and etc. , I think it would be very wrong to others and a disservice to the sport to blame my error on them. If you feel I am a cowboy and wish to make sure that they know who I am and etc then let me know if you wish and I will pm contact information to you for the 3 local clubs in my area. Side issue. I noticed the IDPA number in your signature area. So far I've talked with 3 local s.o.'s on the table start thing and the opinions I've gotten back are either it's a procedural under 'rules of the game' or no penalty. I'm going to keep asking because I haven't found a definite answer yet and need to know if it comes up. If you know the answer to that one and someplace I could point to to back the answer up then it would be appreciated. Whatever the answer is in one sport does not have bearing on the answer in another sport, Mea Culpa if asking for the same irritates anyone, I just need to know so I can talk to the 2 local IDPA clubs & we can make sure everybody is on the same page.

We respectfully disagree about the one particular ruling application, so far I have found it unique to just this one particular gun sport, as well as the allowance for disabling a safety device that many others outside (and some inside) USPSA feel could prevent injury. Whether or not there are other things in the book that would seem wrong to me I do not know, my assumption is that this section of the Enos forum (and the warning about rude behavior) exists because there are rules that other folks feel are either hard to interpret or not as good as they might be. I understand that many, most, or perhaps even all, others on this forum do not share my opinions on these issues, but they are honest opinions and ,if it matters, they are not unique to just me. As has been wisely suggested to me, "if you no likea da rules then no playa da game ". No offense intended.

"Sometimes it seems that your life's whole purpose is to serve as a warning to others" Author unknown Figured I should make sure something is clear. It is extremely likely that the local club told me exactly what I should have been told, and they are very safety conscious and seem to be very well respected by visiting USPSA gurus (the guys with the fancy guns & many colored shirts and stuff). I was an xdm person at first and may not have payed proper attention to rules for other guns, or may just have forgotten what I needed to know when the stars aligned right and it was that kind of a start with that kind of a gun.

Agreed, understood, and no offense taken! This thread has been a useful learning experience for me though (and I'm not going to play point counter point on the gs with this crowd ) .

Something I was curious about, there was no offering of a new shooters meeting or I would have been there. Probably would not have helped in my case but you never know. Maybe that is just the way it is done in this sport and new or only modestly experienced shooters are not supposed to attend the level 2 and above matches? There is also perhaps something somewhere telling people what level of rule book expertise is expected from them before signing up? Please nobody take offense to the above, when you don't know stuff you don't know stuff. At the local matches I've gone to we all get to hear a refresher of the basics if desired and I expected this would be part of a sectional match as well. My error. I don't think I've implied anything derogatory about the host club or the r.o. involved in my posts, if so that was due to my poor writing skills and not my intent.

Yes. Personal preference I know, but I have seen guns dropped (very cold weather draw stoke), and guns holstered without the manual safety applied (shooter going back and forth between 1911 and Glock) and I think the grip safety increases the odds of everybody coming home safe. I don't know of any other sport where it is considered safe to pin the safety, and I know of ranges that outlaw draws entirely or are in danger of voting to do so even with all safety's intact, but perhaps there are other sports where this is ok and the at risk range clubs would not feel additional heartburn about safety devices being disabled?? Maybe it is ok for steels matches? I'm trying to understand the situation better. Your statement above (surrounding the part the I made bold/red) seems to condemn holstering a gun without the manual safety applied, as an unsafe action. Am I understanding this correctly? Under USPSA rules, such an action is considered unsafe and receives a DQ. It's unclear to me if you already know this USPSA rule (10.5.11.1 and 10.5.11.2). USPSA rules consider the action which earned your DQ (listed in your OP), and the action above (bold/red) as comparable. It's unclear to me if you already know this. It's also unclear to me if you think the two situations are significantly different. I'm interested in your comments. Respectfully, ac In one situation the muzzle is pointed safely down range 100% of the time. In the other situation it is often pointed slightly up range and/or at the shooters body, depending on stance holster body type and etc.. I haven't checked the blue book but I know in a similar sport a specific exception is made for muzzleing the shooters body during draw, not because anyone feels good about it but because it can be a practical necessity. You could make a case that the gun could be bobbled while transferring from flat table to hand and end up pointing in an unsafe direction, if you feel this is a reasonable possibility then I understand your concern.

I now understand that my actions were not according to Hoyle by USPSA rules, and it seems like this thread is giving me the flavor for norms and attitudes, so no further fuss from me on the dq. Not that it matters but as stated previously the gun was not left on a drum with no safety engaged, it was placed on a flat table pointing safely down range with yours truly right beside it and the grip safety on. If you feel that my action was in any way unsafe then I accept that that is your opinion, we just disagree. I think somebody could make a valid point that the r.o. had know way of knowing that a functional safety was engaged on my gun, which supports the dq ruling. Also as far as I know there could be data somewhere that shows that most or all polymer guns with none or no more than legal legal trigger work are less likely to fire due to impact than most or all limited guns, this could support your opinion.

Yes. Personal preference I know, but I have seen guns dropped (very cold weather draw stoke), and guns holstered without the manual safety applied (shooter going back and forth between 1911 and Glock) and I think the grip safety increases the odds of everybody coming home safe. I don't know of any other sport where it is considered safe to pin the safety, and I know of ranges that outlaw draws entirely or are in danger of voting to do so even with all safety's intact, but perhaps there are other sports where this is ok and the at risk range clubs would not feel additional heartburn about safety devices being disabled?? Maybe it is ok for steels matches?