SinistralRifleman
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Posts posted by SinistralRifleman
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I keep seeing the "match trigger" as being something dangerous...? Are we equating the words "match trigger' with some hack DYI improperly installed trigger that doubles or worse ...? or what? A properly installed (read professionally) JP trigger will NEVER double or try to "run away".
IMO.
Both the ones in the cases I was talking about were JP triggers installed by knowledgeable people.
A function test to see if the hammer is following is simple.
unload the rifle
cycle the bolt to cock the hammer
pull the trigger and hold it back
cycle the bolt
does the trigger reset when you let off of it?
If not did you hear/feel the click of the hammer following forward with the bolt?
If the trigger resets every time you try this there is no mechanical issue with the gun, the shooter is simply bumping the trigger under recoil.
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This is the second time I've been on the squad with someone at SMM3G that was simply pulling a match trigger fast, and was accused of full-auto fire. In both cases the triggers were mechanically sound, all the rounds went into the shooters intended targets, there was no danger.
The first time this happenned in 2005, the shooter received a Stage DQ from the RO after he was told to stop.
This year, our RO didn't seem to have a problem, but a group of other shooters following us around whined and complained to such a degree that the MD told the shooter if it happenned again he would be DQ'ed. The shooter removed the match trigger from his gun and used a standard GI trigger for the rest of the match so as not to risk being DQ'ed. The match trigger was inspected by JP and he found nothing to be wrong with it.
In cases like this if the RO fears a run away gun, the shooter should be ordered to stop until the gun can be inspected by the gunsmith on the range to insure that the hammer is not simply following as the bolt closes and there is no mechanical issue. If it is determined the shooter's gun is mechanically sound, they should be granted a re-shoot.
Otherwise...don't take a match trigger here, you risk being DQ'ed for "shooting too fast"
As for the people following us around on thursday looking for things to complain about, well people like that make me not want to bother coming.
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This is the first time I can remember that the match finished on time AND no stages were thrown out.
I wish the stages were higher round count. I'd like to shoot at least 100 rounds of each gun if I'm bringing them out
Our gallery is here:
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Slighty off topic, but if you're in Tucson Jerry Miculek will be teaching a multi-gun class tomorrow... $60 sounds like a bargain to learn from him:
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Just wait till you go to a match that REQUIRES that you shoot your shotgun from the prone position.... It is going to happen and soon.
-ld
Been there, done that....that's what the 5 rounders are for.
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Detach Mag fed shotguns were at best not a disadvantage compared to tube feds at SMM3G this year, as all the stages were 12 rounds or less (there was one 14 round slug stage).
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Reloading to an open bolt takes time. I realize that this is time well spent but it does add time to the reload. I was hoping to be able to reload to a closed bolt since one of the "features" of the AGP mags is that little extra bit of space in the mag that allows the shells to compress a bit when attempting a closed bolt reload. Unfortunately closed bolt reloads are a major PITA for me.
Even locking the bolt open you should be able to get down to 4-5 seconds shot to shot.
My first "real" trip out with the AGP mags and new buttstock was not all that great. I had multiple jams and whatever choke is welded onto mine is not all that great for shooting at plate racks. The jams may have been caused by leaving the mags loaded for a few weeks and the shells deforming as a result. I took the gun out the day I got the mags and did not have any feeding problems but I only got to shoot for a few minutes. During the longer session I shot the last Friday I had many jams with the shell not going fully into battery. This could well be due to shell deformation. I'll take it out again with some fresh shells to see if the problem goes away.I like using the winchester AA Super Sporting Clays or Super Handicap loads in mine. The hulls are thicker and thus more resistant to deforming when stored in the mag for long periods. These shells are also a bit hotter and cycle the gun better in my experience.
The other big problem is carrying the shells. I know Cav Arms has some mag pouches available if you have a molly compatible vest to attach them to but I don't have such a vest. Mark Buchanan at 3Gun Gear also had some prototype mag pouches but I haven't checked with him to see if he had come up with a good place to carry the mags.-ld
Need a vest, we can help you out with that....or you could use the pouches on a Modular thigh rig.
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locking the bolt open to reload makes the reloads much easier and more consistent...why fight the gun to put the mag in if you don't have to?
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the AA-12 is full auto...no plans for a semi that I have heard of, thus none will be available for sale to the public AFAIK.
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Nothing like an Arms race to whip people into a frenzy!
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TRUBL, for the same reason I wish some of the big dogs would try it just because I'd love to see what they came up with to get the most advantage.
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I think this is kind of funny, because I generally view competition shooters as the type of people willing to spend any amount of money on something that's an advantage. I've seen people over the years try all different varieties of tube fed shotguns switching from model to model because one "cycles faster" or "loads easier", etc. Some even go so far as to spend hundreds of dollars having the operating system of the gun worked over.
For $700 you have a gun with a decent enough bead sight and 5 10 round magazines, and one 5 rounder...still cheaper than a Benelli. You don't need to dump $400 into a pistol grip conversion to have an effective, reliable gun.
A detach mag fed shotgun makes shooting open worthwhile, regardless of all the other equipment the shooter uses. Thus I think some of the people who have these will just shoot open with their limited pistols, and throw a bipod on their tac-scope rifle if anything.
Life's not fair so gear in Trooper is completely unlimited, except by your physical ability to carry it. You can all talk about what should be allowed in Trooper when you actually shoot it some time. ;-)
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I'm with Wakal on this one. Why should shotgun be the only gun we don't reload with magazines?
In courses of fire less than 12-14 rounds, I haven't found in to be any real advantage over tube fed guns. The more movement on the course of fire, the less it matters.
With the number of these guns I have been selling to competition shooters, I expect to either see more open shooters in the near future, or a bigger push for them to be legal in more divisions.
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Or if you have a MOLLE compatible vest:
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Some of the movie reviews I have read, the authors were so angry that I wonder if we saw the same movie
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I don't know about you kurt, but I have not been beaten by a sagia yet in a match.
For the same reason we see iron sight shooters outshoot shooters with scopes...skill matters more than gear.
For anyone that cares to see results of a Saiga against other guns here are the results for this past weekend's rifle/shotgun match. http://www.riopractical.com/text/rs.htm Stages 2 and Stage 4 are the shotgun stages. Stage 2 was 16 shot, 2 slugs, Stage 4 12 shot.
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back to open it is for me then
...now I really need to find a dot for my gun before the match.
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Modern equipment my ass!! Shotguns are outdated, antiqueted, if thats a word....
....Use of a shotgun in competition isn't about skill level in shooting, its about how fast you can reload the gun!!
duh...one reason among many why the match we put on is rifles only.
You, yourself called them ancient last year. Now all of a sudden saiga's came on the market with magazines and now shotguns are modern equipment?Well they're more modern than tube feds, 20th century tech vs 19th century...but in general I agree.
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Well since it looks like Tony has one ready to go, we won't be pursuing one...I'll check one of his out whenever they're done.
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Just so you know...I wasn't the one that brought up the issue. I was registered in Open until I heard someone else was doing it so I figured I should ask. I thought everyone would like a heads up since these guns are becoming more popular, and the people who have them wouldn't want to artificially hold themselves back from using modern equipment.
I really don't care either way what division I'm in. However, Like anyone else here I will make the most advantage of the rules as they are.
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Well I just got confirmation from the match directors...magazine fed shotguns like the Saiga-12 are legal for tactical scope division so long as the gun never has more than 9 rounds in it at a time (between chamber and magazine) and it follows all the other rules for tactical division shotgun.
I think I'll be changing divisions...
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We saw the movie Thursday night, there were over 2,000 people there to see it.
It was a great movie. I liked that there was no moral relativism, there are distinct good guys and bad guys. The movie does a good job of portraying the concepts of bravery, duty, and some things are worth dying for.
I've read the graphic novel, and this was a good adaptation. The more fanciful parts of the movie and book have been explained as the character who is telling the story is embelishing to rally the other Greeks.
My only criticism of the book and the movie is the Thespians are completely absent. They were citizen soldiers and not duty bound to stay and fight to the death, but they did. Their sacrifice should not be over looked.
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And I will add to the question.. how are you carrying the mags? What do you use as a mag pouch? Are you doing a thigh ride molle
http://www.cavalryarms.com/gear/CTS-1.jpg
http://www.cavalryarms.com/gear/CTS-2.jpg
Vest holds 4 10s and 4 5s.
http://www.cavalryarms.com/gear/CTS-3.jpg
Mag satchel
we'll have double mag pouches that are MOLLE compatible for sale tomorrow for $40.00
I can also have more mag satchels made, they would be around $80.00.
Independence Day Action Rifle Match
in Multi-Gun, Rifle & Shotgun Match Announcements
Posted
BTT...entries are starting to come in.