Justin M

On my .357 Redhawk, the RS moonclips for the N-Frames are just a smidge too big in diameter. I took the cylinder and opened up the counterbore for the moon clips. They work just fine now. I suspect anybody with access to a lathe could do this quickly for you.

Ransom Rest = Random Rest. I've got a few years with Ransom Rests as a professional. Sure, it was nearly twenty years ago and back then I thought pistols that weren't made out of plastic were some of hokey religion for ancient times. Now, twenty years older, I understand that these things, such as the 1911 and the revolver - particularly the N Frame, are elegant weapons for a more civilized age. We used to test barrels in a rigid fixture with a simple breech block and then handguns in Ransom Rests. Both where mounted to a pillar of reinforced concrete and, if memory serves me, shot over Oehler chronos into Suis Ascor acustic targets. The barrel fixture, maybe, went into paper. I honestly can't recall and it wasn't my particuar responsibility. We had a rifle test sled as well. We also had some fancy free recoiling affair that mounted to the sling rail on the "Olympic" small bore rifles for testing. For air rifles, we removed the stocks and mounted them in a block of wood that was bedded and then clamped in an old shaper's vice. That said, I own a Ransom Rest and I mount it to a 6,000 truck. I don't really care if it's a 1" or 1.3" group, I just care that it's directionally correct. I allow for settling between shots and have even considered some sort of outrigger system to lock up the back end of the truck. A couple Hi-Lift jacks or something tied to the trailer hitch maybe. I haven't really noticed a problem though. The bottom line is that it's an easy way to hold a wide variety of pistols for testing. If I had my way, and one day I will, I'd like to build a linear free recoiling sled with either a barrel clamp or designed to use Ransom inserts for pistols. Ransom Rest should be it's own division. It takes a lot of time and attention to detail to get repeatable results. One guys "method" may not be repeatable for another. With my current troubles switching to a 929, it's clear it's more than just mechanical accuracy. At the end of the day, when the scores are up on the virtual wailing wall that is Practiscore - it's far more than who can get the smallest group from a Ransom Rest. When I worked up a load for the 929, I shot from the Ransom a bit, but settled on the load that grouped the best for me on sixteen two round strings (32 total) at 25 yards. I shot my match pace for each of the two round pairs and alternated transitioning from left and right to the target. I guess one other way to look at it is how our Service Rifle team when to Perry. Same ammo for every rifle. Not individually set to just touch lands, not neck turned, nothing. There was one "across-the-course" load. For everyone. Lake City brass, some VV powder, and a Sierra (or whatever was the hotness at the time, like PRL) pill. Loaded by disgruntled soldiers in a very cramped room on at least a handful of different Co-Ax presses with different dies. I should know, I worked in the loading room for a few months when I first got there. Lots of winners shooting what most serious rifle shooters would consider somewhat inferior equipment. In my simple-minded opinion, for USPSA at least, the shooting and gear is the simple part - it's all that other silliness like reloading, entering, exiting, barricades, ports, etc that are where the work should be. I seldom see a shot that couldn't be made by a mildly proficient shooter given no time limit. I understand that the original poster is asking about some sort of informal PPC style shooting, but it seems this has turned into a Ransom Rest thread.

Ok, I'll bite. I still don't understand why you'd want to shoot Short Colts out of a 929?! Is there a benefit or is it simply a convenience issue?

Thanks!

But practice is hard! For me, extra practice is any practice beyond chrono'ing. This has only changed in the last few days - out of frustration with this gun swap. Might be the start of a good habit. The other issue, I suspect it might be is that I just made M with the revolvers, so I might need to change my mental game with the added pressure of chasing 95% now. Could be entirely unrelated to the gun swap. Might be incidental. I'm not sure if it's something for a PM or for this thread, but I'd love to see those grips. Thanks!

For the 929, it shoots better from the rest and from deliberate free-style than the TRR8. The 929 is about a 2" gun at 20yds. The TRR8 is around 3" at 20yds. I do not have either the comp or the end cap installed. Mechanically, I'm at a loss for why this would happen. Pretty sure it's the nut behind the trigger.

I've been seriously shooting USPSA Revolver division for about four months now. In the last few weeks I've starting switching over to a 929. I also made a number of gear changes at the same time. Of course, this is likely a recipe for disaster, right?! I switched over from a TRR8 shooting what folks call .38 "Mid" Colt out of a Safariland 002 holster (cut down and tuned). I was using a Moonclip Server (which, if nothing else, is crazy clever...). Now I'm shooting a 929 out of a DAA Alpha-X and feeding it from DAA magnetic moonclip posts. I had tried the "Big Butt" grips on the 929, but switched back to the Miceluk grips quickly. The two guns have the same sights, grips, trigger setups, cylinder release, etc. The problem is that my points percentage with the 929 dropped to about 65% (with penalties) from about 85% (with penalties) for the TRR8. The 929 shoots as well from the rest, if not better, than the TRR8. Reloads are working out just fine, even though I just broke the edges on the 929 versus silly big chamfers on the TRR8. My times are running about the same with both guns. I'm just not able to shoot as well with the 929. I have nothing else to suspect other than the comically long tube on the 929 or the weight of the gun (which is not immediately apparent to me when shooting) versus the TRR8. Has anyone else had this issue moving to the 929?

In my experience with the DAA Alpha X, for the N Frame magnetic insert you will need to do some fitting for the width of the trigger guard, the radius/thickness of the trigger guard where it locks (up front), and clearance for the trigger (depending on your trigger width). I set my inserts up outside of the holster body, ie: holding just the delrin bits in my hands. It seems much easier to see what geometry needs adjusted this way. I do put the steel pins back into the insert when I get close to make sure it's good. There should be little to no drag on the insert when it's fitted. The gun should drop in under it's own weight and lock. In talking to folks, I think a lot of people just adjust for the trigger guard width, but nothing else. I exclusively use .400" wide triggers and there's significant interference between the sliding lock widget and the blade of the trigger. The TRR8 trigger guard seems much wider than the stainless N frames (such as 929, 627, or 625). I have a separate insert set up just for the TRR8. I don't see the need for the support rod when it's properly fit. There's minimal play even with a comically long gun like the 929. According to DAA you should tune the width on the side of the insert with the lock lever. It's awful thin there for the N frame inserts, so I just took an equal amount off both sides.

Dillon Border Shift bag. Simple, non-specific. $25 or so. Loaded moonclips in one side, empties in other. That's my plan, at least. I generally leave the "big" range bag in the truck during match. If things go sideways and I need the backup gun or to repair something, I can always hoof it to the truck.

I agree with HPJ, however I seldom do that. With the .38 guns, I could reload my moon clips by hand as quick as a Single Stack or Production guy. Now that I'm trying out the 929, I might start clipping enough for a match beforehand as it's a pain to do that on each stage, even with the BMT mooner.

Missing is the biggest trap. For that matter, shooting a "D" is also a trap. You have to shoot a perfect game. That's what I find the most compelling and/or interesting about shooting revolver in USPSA. You've got to be quick, for sure. However, being to quick and missing will punish you. I came from Single Stack, so stage plans are similar, although not the same. I could make up for a lot of my sins with the 1911 by being very quick and shooting Major power factor. Regarding moon clips, I routinely show up with a little pill bottle of about fifty of them. I usually only use six for any given stage. One to load with and five other for reloads. For a long field course of 32 rounds, four moon clips would hold you just fine assuming you're at a club that has eight round arrays on the regular. That's a subject for another time, as it's a disservice to the sport in so many ways. I seldom end up dumping more than a couple partial moonclips on any given stage. Revolver is addicting. More so than Single Stack. Not just in USPSA either. Consider a carry gun. For me, I could follow the crowd and end up with a .380 that wouldn't likely put down a 120lb deer with a well-placed deliberate shot. Or you could carry a K/L or N frame and have much more confidence that hasty hit, even sideways, will likely do a much better job getting to the important bits and stopping whatever fight you've found yourself in.

I have a TRR8. I bought it on a whim because it had eight charge holes and I shot USPSA, so why not, right? It turns out shooting Revolver Division is a metric assload of fun. That's two hundred more pounds of fun than a regular assload no less! That TRR8 was, by far, the worst revolver I have ever purchased. It didn't carry up on four or five holes when it was new, headspace was crazy big - something like .080", the barrel nut was loose to point of being able to turn it by hand. I learned a lot about tuning revolvers from that gun. If it was me, and I had your problem, this is what I'd do: 1. Strip the gun down. You can likely leave the cylinder stop and spring in place, but I'd take out the mainspring, hammer, trigger (and hand), and rebound slide. Probably also take out the bolt to be sure. 2. With just the yoke and the cylinder (complete with extractor, etc) in your hand, does it spin freely? How about when pushed forward a bit? If not, take out the extractor. Figure out which part is causing the drag. 3. Check the barrel nut (it's wrong-handed threads BTW). Is it loose? If you don't have the proper tool and don't feel like making one, consider using a punch and a gentle tap to see if it'll spin. This is important anyways if you need to change your cylinder gap down the road. Some dude makes a decent tool for this. I think it's like $30 or so. 4. If you haven't found the issue yet, put the yoke and cylinder back in the gun. I don't see any reason for the yoke screw just yet. Close it up. Does it spin freely? You'll need to hold down the cylinder stop if you left it in. If it doesn't, there's only a few things that could be going on here. Is the "blast shield" hanging down, bent, or otherwise dragging? Is the barrel/cylinder rubbing? Is that back of the extractor (the center bearing and ratchets) rubbing on the frame somewhere? Do you have any endshake? If you don't (...and I suspect this is your issue...), it'll bind. You need some. 5. Next I'd put just the trigger and hand in. With the cylinder and yoke out, does the trigger and hand move back and forth without issue? Does the cylinder stop drop down and come back about when it should? 6. Put the cylinder and yoke back in. Now, with the trigger and cylinder in, does the hand drag or stop on a certain ratchet or all of them? If you hold the hand, out of the window and away from the ratchets, does it spin ok? Again, you'll have to make sure the cylinder is down or otherwise out of the way. 7. Still stuck, get the bourbon and a pack of smokes. Consider beating every gun shop counter-leaning a-hole who opines about revolvers being more "reliable" than a "semi" and how they'll never malfunction.

Well, damn. I was just considering picking up one of those and a Allchin scope mount for a Delta Point that happens to be laying around. I was thinking it would be a blast for Steel Challenge and great for the kids. If you insist, I'll put it out of my mind... Regarding over-travel stops, is there a consensus from the "big name" gunsmiths like Bowen on how they should be implemented?

I'll be honest, if I had my way, I'd mill the frame under the side plate like the older smaller frames. The issue I see is the off-center "load" on the trigger for that particular stop. For now, though, I'll likely just go with the rod in the rebound slide. If it works (for me) and I don't have any issues with the rebound slide stud bending, it'll be the end of it. If it works (for me) and the rebound slide stud bends, I'll explore other methods. I'm only 41, I grew up on Glocks. I went to war with Glocks. (Well, there was a brief period as a contractor when they handed me a BHP, but that was soon rectified with $200 and a shady Iraqi police officer...) I always thought the 1911 was a relic for old men clinging to the past. It wasn't until I started shooting them did I realize that they're not as clumsy or random as a Glock. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. I got stuck in A class with the 1911 which took a bit of the joy out of it. I took last year off and only shot a few matches for the social aspect of it all. This year, I committed, or should be committed, to revolver. I have honestly never had more fun. I used to joke that shooting Single Stack was like shaking hands with Jeff Cooper, I suppose shooting revolver is like shaking hands with Jack Weaver (or Jordan or Keith or whoever... choose one). I abhor the less than practical aspect of USPSA - especially in the limited capacity divisions like Production and Single Stack. I had a TRR8 in the safe, so I put some decent sights on it, did a trigger job, slapped on a Jerry grip and went to town. Well, not quite, it didn't carry up on about five charge holes from the factory and the headspace was like .080" - so I fit a new hand and set the headspace back (oddly related, right?!). I had no interest in the current hotness or the equipment race. I settled on shooting .38 Long Colt cut down to .38 Super length. Everything was going just fine. Made A class in a few months and then it happened... practicality went out the door. I just picked up a 929 and ordered a full race rig from DAA. I could always argue that a 5" 1911 wasn't that different from the 4" CCO 1911 I carried at the time. Now, I can't make the argument that the 929, complete with 6 1/2" tube and big butt stocks, isn't that different from the 3" 629 I lug around every day now. Long story, but the point is revolvers should come with a warning that they're a rather addictive endeavor. It would take a better man than me to resist.

Toolguy, I like what you're saying (...because I seem to agree with it and anyone who agrees with me must be a genius...). Are there any issues or concerns with using the "rod inside the rebound slide" method? The only argument I have for no over-travel (...or massive over-travel, I suppose) is that if you're trying to keep the trigger/cylinder moving the whole time, it buys you some wiggle room so you're not "bouncing" off the hard stop. I'm not sure if I'm articulating that idea well or if I buy into it, but it's floating around and I'd appreciate thoughts on that. Like I said, new to this whole revolver thing, so I apologize if I'm asking questions that have already been discussed or if there's dogma already established.

Admittedly, I'm new to revolvers, but I have settled on not using over-travel stops - at all - for the time being. I do not use trigger based (like what comes on the "Pro Shop" guns) screws/pins, pins in the rebound slide, or frame mounted stops like the old guns (I suppose I could modify the frames if there was some sort of specific benefit there). Is there a generally agreed upon consensus on over-travel stops? Good, bad, indifferent, etc. I'm coming from a far more modern handgun, the 1911. On that, I settled on about .050" slack, a sub-2lb trigger, and damn near no over-travel. I'd just slap the trigger and it all worked out pretty well.

I'm shooting .38 Long Colt cut down to 0.900", so I guess it's just about identical to .38 Super. I call it .38 Super Colt, but it seems folks where already doing this and calling it ".38 Mid Cold" long before I embraced wheel guns. With a 158gr Berrys FP (...yes, I know, I should be using round noses, however I've got some sort of hangup on it...) loaded to 1.250", I get the following out of a 5" TRR8: 5.0gr CFE @ 825fps (130+ PF) 5.5gr CFE @ 925fps (145+ PF) 6.0gr CFE @ 1025fps (160+ PF) Easy extraction on all. A little dirty at 5.0gr. Primers just flattening up well at 6.0gr. I don't notice a difference between them for recoil management. The 5.0gr loads have some issue with poppers at local Level 1 matches. I use a Redding two ring .38/.357 sizing die, followed by a MBF "M-type" expander in the measure, a Hornady .38/.357 sliding sleeve style seater, and a Redding Profile Crimp .38/.357 die I cut about 1/4" off of the bottom.

It's on Practiscore! (I can't link, because I'm a new member and, rightfully, not trusted to post links yet...) Lawrence County Practical Shooters will be hosting our first match, a Steel Challenge match, on Saturday November 21st. This will be held at Lawrence County Sportsmen's Association. We will provide lunch after the match at the clubhouse. We will be running two relays. The first relay consists of five squads with first shot at 10am and the second relay consists of five squads with the first shot at 1pm. Please remember to register once for each relay if you want to shoot two guns. The following Steel Challenge stages will be set up: 1. Accelerator 2. Five To Go 3. Outer Limits - Reduced to 25 yards 4. Showdown 5. Smoke & Hope The minimum round count for the match will be 125 rounds. Check-in is at the clubhouse. We will be setting up the stages beginning at 8:00 am the morning of the match and welcome any help. Lawrence County Sportsmen's Association 3380 North Mill St. Wampum, PA 16157