GrantJ

Steve You have obviously given this a lot of thought, but have missed the point totally. How many times have you heard the NRA in there fight against gun control use the very same argument about giving in or compromising. We are on a slippery slope and unless we are all equipped with ice picks and crampons, we are on the way to oblivion. My "Practicing" lawyer tells me that this move by the NRA board will in fact increase their liability not reduce it. If they enforce a set of so called safety standards and someone has a problem, then the NRA will be liable for not "catching" it in their checks. As one who has more invested in this sport than I am prepared to admit, I have a lot more to say on this subject. I will be letting the NRA action pistol committee know directly about the error of their ways, and from here on in all correspondence will also be copied to the "President"! I would strongly suggest that if you have an opinion on this subject you do the same and copy in everyone you know to do likewise. Oh and by the way, liability waivers are not worth the paper they are written on. Answer this question then. Why does the NRA insist that we all sign them at the "Cup"! GrantJ

Well, here are the preliminary results. Once again we must thank Helen for transcribing them. Our apologies for any errors or omissions. GrantJ MATCH 1 MATCH 2 MATCH 3 MATCH 4 MATCH 10 1 Doug Koenig 480 48 480 48 480 41 480 48 1920 185 2 Bruce Piatt 480 43 480 46 480 42 480 48 1920 179 3 Michael Voigt 478 45 480 47 480 36 480 48 1918 176 4 Benjamin Hoffman 480 37 480 46 476 30 480 48 1916 161 5 Tony Holmes 474 33 480 43 480 36 480 48 1914 160 6 Roland Croes 476 35 480 48 476 33 480 48 1912 164 7 Brent Laslett 476 37 480 44 476 33 480 48 1912 162 8 Jens Bork 480 37 480 43 471 33 480 48 1911 161 9 Karl Piper 475 29 480 44 476 26 480 48 1911 147 10 Robert Letham 472 34 480 35 478 36 480 48 1910 153 11 Chuck Thomey 476 31 480 46 472 26 480 48 1908 151 12 Jason Koon 476 33 478 39 474 26 480 48 1908 146 13 Crain Ginger 478 29 480 45 467 29 480 48 1905 151 14 Carl Bernosky 470 45 480 47 474 33 480 48 1904 173 15 Steve Weathersby 476 31 480 40 478 35 470 47 1904 153 16 Darryl Carnicelli 473 30 480 40 480 34 470 47 1903 151 17 Grant Jeavons 471 29 480 42 472 24 480 48 1903 143 18 Wolfgang Nothnagel 476 32 480 37 476 30 470 47 1902 146 19 Justin Blackburn 476 30 480 43 474 31 470 47 1900 151 20 Kevin Angstadt 476 31 480 43 469 27 470 47 1895 148 21 Bernd Geppert 473 25 480 39 472 32 470 47 1895 143 22 Vera Koo 468 28 480 44 476 30 470 47 1894 149 23 Jay Della Bella 473 31 480 41 480 25 460 46 1893 143 24 Manuel Tuero 480 29 480 43 472 21 460 46 1892 139 25 Thomas Kwasniewski 480 40 466 37 474 23 470 47 1890 147 26 Jens Tigges 470 27 480 40 469 30 470 47 1889 144 27 Jordan Dick 476 24 480 43 462 22 470 47 1888 136 28 Richard Siebert 472 24 480 43 465 22 470 47 1887 136 29 Albert Greco III 465 24 473 24 469 23 480 48 1887 119 30 Geoffrey Miller 464 28 478 46 472 28 470 47 1884 149 31 Richard Gonsman 460 34 476 30 478 34 470 47 1884 145 32 Kelley Gilmore 480 38 478 41 445 30 480 48 1883 157 33 Michael Makings 471 32 480 42 460 26 470 47 1881 147 34 Helen Jeavons 476 28 478 38 476 29 450 45 1880 140 35 Alan Harriman 458 26 480 45 468 20 470 47 1876 138 36 Martin Johnson 474 20 480 35 472 22 450 45 1876 122 37 Andrew Barksdale 458 21 478 32 465 21 470 47 1871 121 38 Graham Coombs 446 23 480 32 464 22 480 48 1870 125 39 Greg Dick 466 27 480 45 472 32 450 45 1868 149 40 John Dowell 466 29 476 29 456 19 470 47 1868 124 41 Tomoyuki Hasagawa 461 30 480 41 475 30 450 45 1866 146 42 Thomas Blizzard 467 21 475 37 472 19 450 45 1864 122 43 David Giarrantano 461 25 470 41 472 30 460 46 1863 142 44 Mike Harris 469 35 480 39 460 25 450 45 1859 144 45 Barry Marsh 448 37 480 47 480 33 450 45 1858 162 46 Jerry Miculek 474 26 459 26 474 33 450 45 1857 130 47 Thomas Langley 451 16 478 34 468 24 460 46 1857 120 48 Wilfred Verbruggen 468 32 472 29 466 28 450 45 1856 134 49 Nathan Tait 476 30 480 46 459 25 440 44 1855 145 50 Tom Webb 467 24 478 36 470 28 440 44 1855 132 51 Randy Hollowbush 439 23 474 30 462 19 480 48 1855 120 52 Greg Howard 449 29 466 34 469 24 470 47 1854 134 53 Mike Cumming 455 25 480 40 478 28 440 44 1853 137 54 Roy Bannister 470 29 478 45 464 28 440 44 1852 146 55 Alan Strawn 447 27 458 18 476 23 470 47 1851 115 56 Lee Webb 478 33 478 38 450 20 440 44 1846 135 57 Adam Lennert 478 36 478 31 450 17 440 44 1846 128 58 Skip Powers 464 18 474 31 427 18 480 48 1845 115 59 Dhon Hauserman 450 22 456 22 468 20 470 47 1844 111 60 Greg Davis 459 15 444 18 470 23 470 47 1843 103 61 Mike Seeklander 453 24 460 19 469 29 460 46 1842 118 62 Don Golembieski 480 39 420 38 480 40 460 46 1840 163 63 Frank Reiche 462 25 446 16 462 21 470 47 1840 109 64 Matthew Harriman 471 24 480 42 454 15 430 43 1835 124 65 Ichiro Nagata 474 26 440 37 460 23 460 46 1834 132 66 Hunter Pilant 460 24 446 22 457 20 470 47 1833 113 67 Mark Owensby 467 25 443 19 470 27 450 45 1830 116 68 Charlie Coppola 459 32 480 41 469 25 420 42 1828 140 69 David Duprez 456 14 470 35 452 17 450 45 1828 111 70 Phil Strader 449 32 466 32 441 14 470 47 1826 125 71 Marc Kelser 467 23 473 29 446 17 440 44 1826 113 72 Jack Ragsdale 468 24 444 18 462 22 450 45 1824 109 73 Bernd Werkshagen 439 15 469 29 459 14 450 45 1817 103 74 Mike Flagler 463 26 418 33 470 20 460 46 1811 125 75 Richard Munt 450 25 478 42 411 15 470 47 1809 129 76 Doris Siebert 457 19 470 34 459 17 420 42 1806 112 77 Vance Schmid 463 19 457 22 434 24 450 45 1804 110 78 Thomas Glas 445 19 449 17 461 25 440 44 1795 105 79 Carroll Pilant 430 19 445 18 459 20 460 46 1794 103 80 Samuel Roggow 449 19 460 26 464 23 420 42 1793 110 81 Warren Piper 458 21 461 28 450 22 420 42 1789 113 82 Thomas Fee 409 7 476 29 452 11 450 45 1787 92 83 Daniel Hauserman 437 22 453 21 446 14 450 45 1786 102 84 Craig Stapp 435 18 430 16 459 21 460 46 1784 101 85 Steven Richardson 455 22 458 19 450 18 420 42 1783 101 86 Scott Miller 440 16 454 21 461 18 420 42 1775 97 87 Volker Schoefeld 465 23 462 22 447 22 400 40 1774 107 88 Scott Hattrup 420 23 454 14 450 19 450 45 1774 101 89 Frank Glenn 449 18 429 17 454 20 440 44 1772 99 90 David Blough 447 23 422 15 442 13 460 46 1771 97 91 Jay Christensen 422 16 442 16 455 20 440 44 1759 96 92 Steven Peak 422 16 445 26 458 11 430 43 1755 96 93 Daniel Clark 449 26 416 21 449 18 440 44 1754 109 94 Gary Yantis 438 18 478 29 387 12 450 45 1753 104 95 Ronald Lacey 396 11 461 27 466 16 430 43 1753 97 96 Bryan Brockway 455 16 440 24 454 22 400 40 1749 102 97 Martin Curfman 434 21 444 17 441 16 430 43 1749 97 98 Ruth Conn 465 26 461 35 448 14 370 37 1744 112 99 Chris Iacovetto 458 20 413 18 451 22 420 42 1742 102 100 Gary Curfman 440 17 413 14 449 20 440 44 1742 95 101 Bryan Whited 420 23 444 19 467 19 400 40 1731 101 102 Jeff Rowe 442 24 445 24 457 18 380 38 1724 104 103 Richard Radel 437 24 429 19 445 14 410 41 1721 98 104 Deborah Travis 447 24 472 29 441 10 360 36 1720 99 105 Troy Mattheyer 461 23 426 16 474 21 350 35 1711 95 106 Jerrod Baugh 412 13 451 18 436 23 410 41 1709 95 107 Martin Gillman 449 26 480 41 338 11 440 44 1707 122 108 Stephen Horsman 452 20 424 16 451 22 380 38 1707 96 109 Alan Fleshman 439 13 412 15 441 18 410 41 1702 87 110 Joel Kaczorowski 448 17 435 12 438 15 380 38 1701 82 111 Robert Kallio 451 21 373 19 404 14 470 47 1698 101 112 David Dschmidt 424 18 472 22 409 9 390 39 1695 88 113 Frank Tait 435 20 480 46 419 9 360 36 1694 111 114 Gary Valentino 394 10 430 35 469 14 400 40 1693 99 115 Vince Cumming 418 17 476 33 435 9 350 35 1679 94 116 James Seay 421 19 426 24 439 14 390 39 1676 96 117 John Wojcik 412 22 415 12 447 15 400 40 1674 89 118 Stephen Dickerson 409 16 410 11 434 17 420 42 1673 86 119 Jon Smith 440 21 433 18 396 14 400 40 1669 93 120 Marshall Granberg 403 9 442 16 441 14 380 38 1666 77 121 Donald Clark 402 15 462 25 431 12 370 37 1665 89 122 Leroy Spangler 398 7 446 23 391 10 430 43 1665 83 123 George Martin 412 12 430 12 380 13 430 43 1652 80 124 Kent Hill 399 9 384 12 458 18 410 41 1651 80 125 Dale Lamont 400 14 398 10 426 16 410 41 1634 81 126 Heribert Betterman 396 19 436 11 449 17 350 35 1631 82 127 Harold Anderson 458 15 430 28 423 18 310 31 1621 92 128 Billie Hughes 449 18 384 12 415 8 370 37 1618 75 129 Rein Mulders 394 11 447 24 402 10 360 36 1603 81 130 Christy McFadden 406 14 404 14 412 10 370 37 1592 75 131 Stephen Burgan 414 15 419 13 436 14 320 32 1589 74 132 Michael King 380 15 405 9 439 16 340 34 1564 74 133 Cody Maxwell 428 10 379 10 382 15 370 37 1559 72 134 Donald Martin 373 9 384 10 428 13 360 36 1545 68 135 Garson Chen 384 10 409 10 371 13 380 38 1544 71 136 Heinz Meyer 367 4 374 5 404 8 360 36 1505 53 137 Jerry Danuser 364 7 401 10 387 9 350 35 1502 61 138 John Rabai 377 10 373 7 373 3 360 36 1483 56 139 Melissa McConnell 373 12 356 8 377 9 320 32 1426 61 140 John Koppi 372 17 395 14 393 13 260 26 1420 70 141 Andrea Moroni 468 30 480 45 471 23 0 0 1419 98 142 Bubba Downing 374 6 379 16 366 9 300 30 1419 61 143 Louis Tomme 338 3 432 14 368 8 170 17 1308 42 144 Elin Thaler 310 3 370 10 324 3 270 27 1274 43 145 John Irving JR 311 6 316 9 368 9 170 17 1165 41 146 Olaf Mueller 287 8 271 4 363 7 170 17 1091 36 147 Buddy Duvall 236 2 302 7 287 3 150 15 975 27

With all due respect to those who are trying to fix the current rules problems, a thought comes to mind. "If it aint broke, don't fix it!" If the committee hadn't "messed" with the rules to start with, we wouldn't have this problem now! When will the NRA wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I for one will be looking forward to the Q&A Session at the "Cup" this year. GrantJ

Flyin40 Los Alamitos is not shot at the "Cup," and is only worth 420 points. Practical is and is worth 480 points, Sounds like you were also shooting moving target instead of moving target "Modified," that is only worth 240 points instead of 480. Add it all up and you get a total of 1620. Each of the "Cup" matches are worth 480 points They are: Practical Barricade Moving target "Modified" Falling Plates Hope this makes sense, and helps GrantJ

Steve Use the time you have, sight, trigger, works every time it is tried. Are you shooting high at 50? If so you may be inadvertently raising the foresight to sharpen the focus. One thing I found when I was shooting metallic, was weather or not you have a sharp foresight picture. A quick test is to take a usual sigh picture. Then raise the foresight out of the rear sight notch. Does the foresight get sharper? If it does you need to either decrease the width of the foresight, or increase the width of the rear sight notch. A thing to remember with this is that in a competition these finer points are often missed. Take a couple of quick sight pictures and see what happens. Does it take a little more time to sharpen the focus on the foresight, if so you may need to fine tune the widths etc. By the way, my personal best Metallic sight score was in practice before the "Cup" 1990. Posted a 1902 at a warm up match in Jefferson City. My score at the "Cup" was not up to the same standard, but good enough for third place Metallic. GrantJ

It seems to me that they are not interested in what the competitors have to say. It also seems that the information may not always be getting to the people that make the decisions. If you have an opinion on what is happening with Action Pistol then I would strongly suggest that you contact Rudy at the NRA and let him know your Concerns. I would also suggest that you copy in the members of the Committee. I do not have their contact details but I am sure that Rudy or Kevin would gladly supply you all with the relevant information. Hope to see you all at the "Cup" 2005 GrantJ

It seems to me that all of the guns we are talking about are "Custom Built." Most of them are made up from a bunch of spare parts. Therefore the safety features they have are what the manufacturer (Favorite Gunsmith) fits in to them! Usually a thumb safety. My main concern is who is going to decide what is legal and what is not. Remember the trouble they ran in to with stock gun! Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. GrantJ

Does anyone have a copy of the 1992 Bianchi results? GrantJ

Well, here it is for what it is worth. I did not say what weekend it would appear, did I? Again if you have an opinion on this subject I urge you all to contact Rudy at NRA HQ. Also remember that we do have people on that committee that are on our side. GrantJ Subject: Proposed Rules Changes Gentlemen We are now approaching the end of the 26th year of Action Pistol. During this time it has been a major contributor to the shooting sports. The innovative approach by which its competitors have embraced the course of fire, and developed their pistols and equipment, is unprecedented. The match was designed to be challenging and to bring out the best competitors in the Country. It has done that and more, it now attracts the best in the world. The rules for this match were designed to allow the competitor maximum freedom to safely shoot the course of fire in a freestyle manor. Any changes to the rules need to be done with this in mind. In a recent decision the committee found it necessary to re define the safety features of Action Pistols to "bring them in line" with other NRA disciplines. Action Pistol is a discipline in its own right and does not need to be "aligned" to anything. By far the majority of Open and Metallic Sight handguns are custom built. They start off life as an accumulation of parts that are transformed into some of the most accurate handguns available. The safety features are whatever the gunsmith builds into them, usually a manual thumb safety. Amending the rules to say, "all standard safety features of guns must operate properly," will have no effect on these pistols, but will have consequences for production guns because of the restrictions on pistols in this class. To my knowledge, in the 26-year history of Action Pistol, there has never been an incident that has not been adequately dealt with by the existing rules. While "Liability" has been touted as the main reason for these changes, there is no evidence to suggest that there is an existing problem. In short there is not! Rule 3.1, 3.1.1, 3.2 and3.18.1 (Firearms and Equipment) clearly state that Handguns shall be serviceable and safe. Rule 10.1.11 describes the "Safe Handgun Condition" It is rumored that the committee intends to investigate the adoption of a minimum trigger weight for the 2006 season. Trigger weight is currently covered under Rule 3.4. There is no evidence to support the theory that a minimum specified trigger weight will, in any way, alter the reliability of Action Pistol trigger mechanisms. Open Class Modified has been added to the competition to attract shooters from IPSC. These guns do not have a minimum trigger weight. I seriously doubt that any IPSC shooters will alter the trigger weight of their competition gun just to shoot Action Pistol. At a time when we are struggling to attract new competitors this proposal would seem somewhat foolhardy. Once again it appears that the committee is intent on changing the rules because of a perceived problem that does not exist. If they were to put as much energy into promoting the sport as they do on "frivolous" rules changes we would all be better off. GrantJ Active Action Pistol Competitor

Doug 9mm is every bit as accurate as anything else. It is a matter of finding out what works best for you. I have not found it as critical as other rounds for accuracy. I am using a 115 gr Zero bullet with 4.8 gr of Vihtavuori N330. In my beaten up old blaster it shoots sub 2.5" groups at 50 "Prone" (sorry for the dirty word) no gimmicks or sandbags. N330 is a tad slower than WW231, and has a softer recoil. As for Brass, Starline is about as good as it gets. I have not had any problems in all the time I have used it. I do find though that once fired brass gives a better load consistency. GrantJ

Hi All Well, its me again. I have some ideas on all of the above that I am working on and will post it some time over the week end. I think it is important that we all keep a level head on what is going on. It is one thing to vent our annoyance at the administrator of this great sport through this forum, but in essence, we are preaching to the choir. what we need to do is put together sound ideas and let the NRA know how we feel. GrantJ

Luther Don't get fooled by cadence. Take a lesson from Alan, Dot-Trigger, works every time. Let the sight determine when you break the shot, not the timing. GrantJ

INVITATION TO SHOW ME CUP 2004 NRA ACTION PISTOL REGION X CHAMPIONSHIP Pioneer Gun Club Kansas City, Missouri TOURNAMENT NAME: NRA Action Pistol Regional Championship. DATES: Match Date: October 2nd 2004. The Range will be available for Practice on Friday, October 1st 2004 between 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. There will be a $10.00 fee charged for range use, we will have new NRA D-1 Targets available @ $0.50. SPONSORING CLUB: Pioneer Gun Club. FOR INFO CONTACT: Mike Harris HM: 816-884-2211 27622 S Belle Plain Rd Cell: 816-805-8895 Harrisonville, MO. 64701 E-Mail: nraactionpistol@juno.com DIRECTIONS: On I-70 take the Bates City exit, go south on Z Highway 7.6 miles to HH Highway go East and at 1.2 miles go right on Ricky Road approx. 1.1 miles, turn right at pole with large P. Or from 50 Highway take Z Highway North 3.5 miles to HH Highway go East and at 1.2 miles go right on Ricky Road right approx. 1.1 miles, turn right at pole with large P. RULES: 2004 NRA Action Pistol Rules shall govern. COMPETITION OPEN TO: Open to all NRA Members. ENTRY FEE: Entries received by September 2nd 2004 will be $85.00; post entries will be $100.00 until entries close at 10:00 am Oct. 2nd 2004. I would like to see pre entries so the squadding schedule can be made if necessary. These fees include the NRA Registration Fee. NRA Classification cards will be checked. ENTRIES CLOSE: October 2nd 2004 @ 10:00 am POST ENTRIES: Post entries will be accepted up to the stated range limit, or 10:00 am Oct. 2nd. ENTRY LIMIT: First 40 Paid Entries. SCHEDULE: Competitor check in will be 9:00 - 9:30 a.m. on October 2nd. Squadding information will be picked up at this time. Competitors briefing will begin 9:45 a.m. FIRING STARTS: Range Officers will begin at 08:00 a.m. Competitors will begin firing at 10:00 a.m. date of match. All Competitors will be squadded! CHALLENGES: There will be a $20.00 cash challenge fee. The Official Referees decision is final, unless no Official Referee is available, then a 3-man jury will be selected & they will have the final decision. NO PLUG GAUGES WILL BE USED except by an Official Referee. (OVER PLEASE) CLASSIFICATIONS: NRA Classification System (you must have a valid NRA Action Pistol Classification card or TEMPORARY CLASSIFICATION book or you will Shoot in Master Class-Unclassified). AWARDS: See Attached Awards Schedule. MATCH SCHEDULE Match 1 Practical, Match 2 Barricade, Match 3 Moving Target Modified, Match 4 & CONDITIONS: Falling Plates, Match 5 Regional Championship: An aggregate of scores fired in Matches 1, 2, 3, & 4. We utilize turning targets on Practical & Barricades & auto re-setters with lock bars on the Falling Plates. Incase of equipment failure we will return to the use of electronic timers if timely repairs cannot be made. All pistols and gear must meet NRA Specifications & Power Factors (at least 9mm and have a power factor of at least 120,000 velocity x bullet weight). We will pull ammo to chronograph. You should bring at least 100 rounds of ammo to each event in case of a refire. RANGE RULES: There will be no handling of firearms unless instructed so by a Range Officer. There will be a designated safe area if cleaning or repair is needed but no live ammo will be allowed in this area. Violation of this rule will result in Disqualification. No Holster test will be performed; Any Dropped Loaded Gun will result in Disqualification. Ear and Eye protection is required on all ranges. GENERAL INFO: Sandwiches will be available for lunch on match day. We have restrooms & showers at the range. No Alcoholic Beverages are allowed on the property. MOTELS IN THE AREA: BLUE SPRINGS MOTELS: American Inn 816-228-1080, Interstate Inn 816-229-6311, Microtel Inn & Suites 1-888-771-7171, Super 8 816-224-2899, Motel 6 816-228-9133, Holiday Inn 816-220-7400, Hampton Inn 816-220-3844, Ramada Inn 816-229-6363. GRAIN VALLEY MOTELS: Courtyard Marriott 816-228-8100, Comfort Inn 816-847-2700, Travelodge 816-224-3420, OAK GROVE MOTELS: Days Inn 816-690-8700, Econo Lodge 816-625-3681, CONCORDIA MOTELS: Days Inn 660-463-7987, Best Western 660-463-2114. These Motels are all along I-70 within 20 miles of the range.

Rhino I never had plates to practice on either. I went to the local store and bought some 8" paper plates and stapled them to a 2x4. Worked great, not that this years result at the "Cup" would show it. GrantJ

Doug VV N320 is a tad faster than WW231 You may like to try VV N330 as well, it is a tad slower and is softer in recoil. GrantJ

I shot metallic for years. I found there was a fine line between what will work and what will not. It is important to remember that as the clearance between the foresight and rear sight notch reduces, the front sight becomes fuzzy. If you get it wrong there will be a tendency to shoot high under pressure. A quick check is to take deliberate aim, then raise the foresight out of the rear notch. If the foresight gets sharper in focus, you need to decrease the width of the foresight, or increase the rear sight notch. The less time you have to take aim, the more gap you need. With NRA you have plenty of time so you can get closer to the limits. I favor a narrower foresight, but then I also need glasses. GrantJ

RGONS Check out page 3 of "2004 Bianchi Cup Results" on this forum GrantJ

Hi all, Me again. Well, here is the submission as promised. It is not rocket science, but may work. Call it the best of both worlds. As I have said time and time again, if you have an opinion on this subject contact Rudy at the NRA and let him know. If you want them to consider it at the committee, it must be in writing. Pass the word. GrantJ Gentlemen It was evident at the Q&A meeting on May 27 that the NRA Action Pistol Committee is seriously out of touch with the Action Pistol community. They have successfully managed to alienate the dedicated supporters of this sport. Having a senior member of the NRA telling them to “Go to Hell” was not appropriate and did not help. It did nothing to inspire confidence among the assembled enthusiasts, but instead inflamed an already tense situation. “Active” members of this sport shoot on a monthly basis and do not have a problem investing serious dollars to build guns specific to their sport. Changing rules, even over a period of time, making these fine guns, or parts thereof, obsolete will do nothing to endear their owners to your cause. These dedicated enthusiasts also invest large amounts of time and effort to run matches and encourage new shooters to participate. They are the very backbone of Action Pistol. There have been serious discussions of starting a new organization and many have indicated that with what has already happened, and what is proposed, they will not be back. In a sport struggling to attract new competitors, this is a serious problem. It is imperative we retain the competitors we have, while attracting new shooters to the sport. We also need to be mindful of our International supporters. Some countries are struggling to maintain their programs because of tough gun laws and need our support. International competitors spend a huge amount of money to compete in the United States. This year they represented approximately 30% of the attendance at the National Championship. Any changes made to the rules will have ramifications both here and overseas. Without the support of the International competitors, our National Championship would be in serious trouble. That said, all of us want the same thing. An increase in numbers at Local, State, Regional and National/International levels. With that in mind, I would like to submit the following proposal for your consideration. 1: We adopt a new Division – “Open Modified”. The rules governing this division would be those recently adopted for Open Class (2004 Rules Book). In addition these rules would be modified to prohibit the use of wings, shrouds, or the adoption of any wrap-around hold for support on the Barricade. Knuckle up support would be optional as long as the gun was not in contact with the Barricade. Artificial devices offering support would be prohibited. The prone issue would need some debate; those being affected would be the best to comment. 2: “Open Division” would revert to its old rules, and would be shot “Free Style” as it has been for 25 years. Gentlemen this is a win-win situation. Those competitors opposed to the recent rules change would continue to support this great sport and the Committee would get the chance to experiment with a new format without alienating the very base of our supporters. If in time the new format attracts the numbers the committee is looking for then “Open–Modified” would become the natural successor to “Open”. With the top “Metallic Sight” shooters now shooting in the 1900’s, I see no reason why “Open – Modified” would not be an interesting addition, and be competitive for overall standings. In the mean time we would have all categories of IPSC, IDPA, PPC, ICORE and others covered. This, and a serious effort in promotion, will increase the numbers. 3: Classifications – For a long time I have been hearing complaints from competitors regarding the classification system. This system is supposed to encourage competitors to compete against shooters of similar skill levels. When looking at the results it is apparent that this is not happening. When you have an “Expert” shooting a High Master score at his very first match you know you have a serious problem. The fix is simple. If you Shoot into a higher class at a State, Regional or National Championship, you will automatically be advanced to that class at the match. As with any other class advancement, this will be ratified and your new card will be dispatched in due course. For reference I think that Metallic Silhouette has a similar system of operation. I trust the Committee will give these suggestions serious concideration. In the end we all want the same thing, to see this sport to prosper. I look forward to your response with interest. GrantJ

Trader This is the only sight that I am aware of but it has many threads, I simply planned to post it on all Chuck I have over $1000 invested in a shroud that does not work, but the knowledge now to invest in another that will. Should I now spend that money on the off chance that the rules will not change? My new gun is now up to an obscene amount of dollars, but to me that is part of the game. It is like Formula One. In our own rights we are pushing the envelope to achieve excellence in accuracy. I see no problem in that. Dave Go back to my post/history lesson and re read it. I think you missed the point GrantJ

Dave The "Go to Hell" statement was made at the meeting. I was in the front row and heard it loud and clear. It is not worth naming the person as it serves no purpose. With any luck it has already been dealt with at a higher level. Lets just say that it was not called for and was not appropriate. As far as the rules changes go, you have missed the point. Open shooters have spent many dollars fine tuning and adjusting their Action Pistols to suit their needs. At the stroke of a pen the committee can make them obsolete overnight and the shooter has no recourse. This is as much about the change as the way they went about it. I repeat again, there is no advantage to alienating your strongest group of supporters on the off chance that your rule change "MAY" attract new shooters! There is a way to do both - More about that soon. A history lesson: Back in 1995, the rules were changed, in an attempt to attract more shooters from other shooting sports. "Metallic Sight" was changed to "Stock Gun." Instantly pistols that had been modified to shoot PPC, Bullseye, IPSC, IDPA and others were no longer eligible to shoot Action Pistol. The guns along with their owners stopped coming. This year they went back to "Metallic Sight" and the numbers have improved. I tend agree that ICASE is not the answer, it will simply divide an already small group of enthusiasts. I understand the frustration and anger of the organizers but I feel that in the main, we are all preaching to the choir. This anger and frustration needs to be focussed in a unified manner to the seat of the problem. If you have an opinion, share it with the Committee. Get everyone you know to do the same. If we bury them in submissions, Ideas and solutions to our current woes, at some point they will have to take notice. Remember they still have this magic number of 1500 Action Shooters in the back of their minds. WE all know that of this number, only a very small proportion are active. That is us and we need to unify to be heard. Sermon over

Dave, you worry me sometimes. When a senior official of the NRA tells you to "Go to hell," you have got my attention! As for the rules change, it has been tried before and it does not work, ask the NRA they have already admitted this. Why alienate the supporters you already have to attract some that you may get? That makes sense doesn't it! There is a way to achieve both that I am working on now. Will post it on all sites as soon as it is finished. GrantJ

Steve As far as Plaques and shirts go I can help you out with those, and reduce your Costs, just let me know what you want and we can get it organized, and save you dollars. GrantJ

Yep May be all of the above. All sound reasons. However in view of all of this why would the controlling body of any sport, want to alienate its strongest supporters. I am working on a submission now that may give us the best of both worlds. When completed I will post it on this sight. Brian, yes there was a general down turn about this time but I think there was another thing that happened that may have been a contributor to our current situation. Dave, I thought of the "Stock" issue to but alas that was not the reason, that change came much later. Keep thinking everyone, I will share my thoughts soon GrantJ

Once again we seem to be missing the point. The rules change is supposed to attract new shooters, but at what cost. History show us that this is not likely to happen, but in the mean time we stand to loose the very core of our supporters. I did a little research today and came up with some interesting numbers. My information goes back to 1988 when we had 229 competitors, 1989 - 234, 1990 - 210, 1991 - 215, I have no results for 1992, 1993 - 209 and in 1994, the first "World" shoot we attracted 188 shooters. The question should be, "what happened in 1993 to seriously reduce the numbers attending the Cup. From there on, the numbers have been dropping off, with the exception of 1998 when we got back to the 200 mark. I have my own thoughts that I will not make public at this time. What do you think could have caused this downturn. I will give you a hint, it has nothing to do with the so called arms race. GrantJ

Brent You know what I know. Will update as soon as I hear anything GrantJ