daves_not_here

Matt, Visual Patience p.80 Enos 1990 Next time give me the page number in Brian's book! Just that one paragraph answers this whole thread completely...For me anyway. DNH

Mr. Chaos, Trigger length is very relevant to this discussion. Every factor that affects trigger press should be a part of this discussion if someone is looking for a complete cure for their difficulties. Otherwise it'll just be a double action/single action opinion debate rather than a "how do I get better" thread. I think the emphasis of the discussion should be about being correct not better. A lighter trigger will reduce the effects of bad mechanics but you'll still have the bad mechanics. Everything affects shooting and needs to be "correct" for that individual. Getting good trigger finger placement along with proper press, gun fit, hand placement, follow through etc. are crucial no matter what the weight, action or gun. This might explain why some people say "a single action will make you a rock star" and others say "I shoot my 5.5 pound stock Glock trigger like my 1911 target trigger". With a longer double action pull the trigger mechanics have to be correct throughout the press and it might be just a case of trigger length of a different gun that improved a person's mechanics and not the trigger weight. The problem for you might be the opposite of what you think. I started out with a long trigger pull but ended up with the shortest I could find. With the long trigger on my gun and was fine until I started trying to shoot faster and the mechanics were killing my groups, even with a 3 pound trigger. I got some instruction from some Masters and was taught to curl my finger a lot more than I thought I needed and it works great. I was also taught some changes to my grip. Now, I even have a snubbie that I can shoot just as well double or single action. However, I am still open to changing my technique. I suggest you get some personal instruction from instructors with experience to help you get correct technique. If you like the way a gun shoots you'll probably do better with it. Sell the guns you don't like shooting or are unable to get to work for you. (I just needed to add that to help justify buying more guns. ) DNH

Matt, It looks like this approach worked well for you this weekend. Thanks for explaining what to look for in transitions. Congrats, DNH

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Not-So-Mad, Being premature on the trigger is a habit of mine. It seems that acceptable sight picture and trigger press timing is the root of the "accurate speed" question regardless of the level of shooter. However, where I am as a shooter it's the reloads and transitions that eat up all the time. For me working on faster splits is going to give me very little improvement overall. Transitions on the other hand is where I've got a lot of room for improvement. Right now I'm trying everything to improve my transitions and reduce premature trigger. Any suggestions or discussion would be welcome! DNH

Congrats on being a card-carrying member. The low second shot sounds like something I do sometimes. Some people call it a "flinch" which I think is a little too general. Try putting snap-caps randomly in your magazines. If you pull the trigger on a snap cap and the muzzle dips you may be anticipating recoil or slapping the trigger. I've found these charts useful shot analysis thread Next, buy Brian's book and read through it. Keep it around and read again because over time the same words say something different. DNH

Dezz, How did yesterday go? I had an accidental discharge coming around a corner. There was a non-threat covering everything but the head of a threat. I had the gun high and drove it around the edge like I've been practicing. Because of the head shot and non-threat in the way I was going to take it slow. Before I knew it I AD'd! Center punched the head! I guess everything was right and I was waiting for a conscious confirmation on a head shot. My subconscious didn't think it was necessary to inform me that it was pulling the trigger and my conscious mind wasn't quick enough to ask any questions. So, "Shoot A's as fast as you can" ultimately means ingraining the shots in the subconscious and watching the show. Your question "speed vs. accuracy" is probably influenced by how much is done with the subconscious where most of act of shooting is purely reflexive. Making shooting second nature opens the door to many lifetimes of practice and study. I have never heard that the pursuit of this wasn't worthwhile. DNH

Bullet in hand is worth two in the tray! Having a bullet in the hand sounds like the trick! Pulling the handle down visually find bullet, grab with left hand. Raise handle, seat primer visually find next case. Index with left thumb while grabbing next case. Visually check for powder while inserting case. Place bullet while grabbing handle with right hand. That eliminates a transition of the left hand: Before - index star, bullet tray, place bullet, bullet tray. Now - index star, place bullet, bullet tray 33% reduction of transition distance. I figure the first things to eliminate things that are done more than once a cycle. That back and forth with the left hand will definitely increase RPM! Thanks! DNH

I must admit it was the fiddling with the bullets that cramped my hand that truly motivated me to get smoother. Now that I'm purposefully doing three things at once, right and left hand do something while I'm looking before picking something up, I am a lot more "coordinated". Yeah, I call it efficient or smooth but in reality it's not dropping every tenth bullet or case which is an improvement... I felt like a dork; pick up bullet, fiddle with fingers, put on case. Cycle handle and wonder if there was powder in the case. Take case with seated bullet and put in to-be-pulled bin. Shake cramp out of hand. I guess that's why it's a light bulb moment to me... Just like shooting, aiming at the exact spot will be more accurate. Instead of shoving my hand in the bullet tray I pick exactly which bullet to grab which is oriented in a way that's good to grab. Now, if I could only smooth out my shooting! DNH

Give this a try. I was reading a book on the "quiet eye" for shooting and just applied some of the information to reloading. It has improved my reloading rate. Reloading this way basically reduces transitions between tasks. It occupies both hands and most importantly gaze. I look directly at the exact case or bullet I'm about to pick up before I move my hand. There is almost no fiddling with a case or bullet grabbed upside down. All stations are filled, left hand touching bullet tray and right hand on handle: Reloader ready... Set primer while looking directly at next case to be loaded and moving left hand up to indexing star. Index with left hand while picking up and inserting case. Eyes look directly at the bullet I'm going to pick up from the tray. Pick up bullet and place on case after visually checking for powder and saying "powder, bullet" in my head. Right hand is moving to handle. While cycling handle down keep left hand touching bullet tray. Periodically visually check for supplies bullet, powder, brass, time for dinner and leave handle down a stop is needed. Bring handle up and repeat process. Reloading goes a lot smoother for me now that I'm not fiddling with brass or bullets. Looking at them directly before I pick them up allows my brain to say, rotate wrist to pick up with base down. Anyone else out there consciously multi-taksing like this also? DNH

Dezz, I'm about two years into the IDPA game. If you shoot IDPA you probably do need mental counseling...I call mine "trigger therapy". No, you're not beating a dead horse. Every course I've taken has addressed this very question. Check out this thread. Felt slow but was blazing fast The speed vs. accuracy discussion is the essence of the practical shooting sports that have a time element. Yes, it is simple. At the buzzer align gun with target and make it go bang repeat until out of targets. It is also very difficult. There's a lot going on and it has be be coordinated and balanced. You talk about your splits. What about your transitions and reloads? Those take up more time and there's a lot of "speed" that can be gained there. So, also add reload practice. That's where a second or two can be shaved off a stage. DNH

Honestly? Get milk on the way home. How's my support hand...too late. Let's rock! I'm thirsty. Maybe I should've brought my camelback today? Maybe I should buy those Warren sights. They look cool. Subway sub on the way home? or is my wife cooking something. I hope it's chocolate cookies. I hope I don't get any ticks out here like last time. It's a hot summer. Almost done with the stage. Stay in the fight! I think I'll wait and mow the lawn on Monday. SCAN! did I get all of them? Stop, be safe. No one is going to make fun of be being slow at this point. The results give no points for being cool by racking the slide and catching the round... Damn, shooting is SO FRIGGIN FUN!!!!! No matter what I tell myself about sight, slow is fast and all that. Normal life invades. It's a win if I'm safe. It's even more fun when I win class. DNH

Don't forget the pull-ups with the dip belt. DNH

Ah, tennis balls and .22's. Every kid should grow up with these! The childhood memories flood my brain. I even remember an article that talked about tennis balls and coat hangar wire resetting targets. However, I'm too grown up now and only shoot at cardboard. Going to "Play It Again Sports" and pick up some used tennis balls this weekend. Thanks, DNH

I agree, a brain fart will definitely keep the practice continuing! Farting is fun anyway! It is the mistakes and failures that we learn from. DNH

You didn't give up the fight! That's not a fail. If a brain fart haunts me I work on how to prevent it or practice to handle it better in the future. I've got a list of "what to prevent and to practice to handle better". My latest was: not dropping a magazine because my hand was blocking the other side of the release (Glock). I kept on pressing harder and harder thinking it was jammed. My top three: Press check at load make ready. - Gotta have a bullet in the chamber to play! Tugging on the mag at load make ready. - I never want it to go like: beep -> bang -> explicative -> slide lock reload . Scan at the end - make sure I got all of em! DNH

I keep tracking and pick up the A zone when it appears. Runners For runners after finding a tracking speed, like with shooting clays, it's as easy as a stationary. Eye tracking exercise Sitting at a stop light I look at the hub of the wheels of cars passing by. Acquire the front wheel, track, then transition to the rear wheel. It's harder if you're not the first one in line which is more like dealing with cover or NS. DNH

Eric, 10K views. Very cool! Maybe this will get pinned someday? This is my latest combination of toys...er ah, shooting drill tool setup. I got inspired by another thread about swinger trapping or tracking... SIRT and Matt Burkett Dry Fire Drills Do these drills with the take up laser/shot indicator and just the shot indicator. A'la Anderson, also do some with just the trigger prepped and do not fire for confirmation of sight acquisition. The link for Burkett Dry Fire for swingers is below. You can change the speed and click-drag the barricade. Burkett the Swinger Tracking and Trapping I close my eyes, open them as I draw, then get into the swing. Or, if there's a barricade I treat it like a flasher and just trap it. Other Dry Fire Drills This is his main page for his dry-fire drills. There's a tracking target app that I do the same drills starting with the eyes closed and also using the take up laser. Burkett Dry Fires Perfect Practice This can become a lame exercise if you let it. I pay attention to tracking and scoring A zone hits both with head and body. This keeps it challenging occupying the mind as described in the "Overachievement" book by Eliot. I've also tried moving and shooting from the other room using the door frame as cover. When practicing pay attention to: Bobble with tracking and movement change - keep the takeup laser on the A zone Trigger mechanics don't disturb tracking - keep tracking Time to good track. Acquiring the target from eyes closed to draw and on target. An idea could be to use a par timer but I haven't done this. I'd like to know how it works out. The usual fundamentals My thoughts and feelings Having the take up and shot indicating gives feedback on any inefficiencies or blown shots. Especially when tracking a swinger you can tell if you stopped tracking or kept the swing. Having the take up laser come on at the last part of presentation gives me an idea of how I'm pointing my body. If that little dot doesn't show up close to the target I know I'm getting lazy. Shooting is all about what happens before the shot. I've reduced the overshoot and bobbling dramatically. I also have more focus on the swinger. Instead of shooting at a brown blur I'm zeroing in on the A zone. Hope this helps your skills, DNH

Here's the Burkett Dry Fire link for swingers. You can change the speed and click-drag the barricade. Burkett the Swinger I like the fact that you can move the barricade with this app... So many times there's a swinger that peeks from behind a barricade. When a swinger peeks from behind a barricade it makes the swinger into a flasher. (I love these target terms!) I think trapping would work best to pop a swinger that's flashing. If you've got more exposure to establish a swing definitely track. This is his main page for his dry-fire drills. There's even a tracking target app. Burkett Dry Fires I wonder if Matt might read this...dry-firing swinger! DNH

Downrange58, "I almost never miss a day of practice because it is so accessible.... Best money I have ever spent on a sport." Completely agree! Having a practice setup accessible gives me a quick "fix" for the days between live fire. Here's one to try: Turn on the take up laser. Notice where it is when you're coming around cover to engage a target. I've been taught to point the gun at the target when moving behind cover into position. It's quicker, more efficient, if only minor adjustments are required when rounding a barricade. For me I try to get the take up laser coming on just after the edge of the barricade and as I break around the edge it's: target->sight picture->send it. In the beginning the takeup laser was "somewhere" downrange. Now it's consistently close, sometimes on brown. With a little push out I've got target and sight picture almost simultaneously. I think this comes under Mike's "muzzle accountability = perfect practice" category. I wonder if it's a DQ if you blast the edge of a barricade? It would definitely be a time loss from the distraction and a makeup for the ricochet. DNH

What not to care about: Letting go. If we care about letting go we don't let go. Not letting go is being attached and that turns compassion and caring into a hindrance. This applies to a loved one or a pulled shot. DNH

Only lost 5 seconds? Good recovery! I bet that 5 seconds will permanently prevent it happening ever again. That's a good return. DNH

You mean you didn't want validation of confusion? DNH

Mike, Thanks for the drills! I think you're adding to the value of SIRT rather than marketing when discussing drills and techniques on this forum. If you come out with a 1911 version the forum traffic might get out of control and that could be considered hype marketing. On accountability: With no recoil, trigger mechanics aren't lost in muzzle rise. You have nowhere to hide. Just follow the bouncing ball, it will tell all. Shooting is about what happens before the shot... Shooting on the move: I use the take up laser for the moving Anderson drills. Figure eights are my current focus. That takeup laser is instant feedback to my feet. I can test techniques and push limits. Laser on target tells me usable technique and speed. Then I make sure I maintain a good trigger press. It's bizarre how trigger press goes out the window when moving! Honest Practice = Perfect Practice Distance: 40+ yards isn't in every bay at the ranges I frequent so most of my longer range work is with the green laser. A streak of light tells a lot more than just a hole in a piece of paper anyway. Also this eliminates the bullcrap stories I tell myself about whether I hit something during dry fire. I admit to questioning the SIRT but mashing the trigger and aligning the sights tells me that the tool is good and it's operator error. It's a good reality check and I can get back to honest practice. Auto response database "Auto response database" is a useful term for me. I'd say that "database" describes the skills and techniques in general. Now it would be a matter of "migrating" that database into the subconscious to make it "auto response". Thanks! The "auto response database" or subconscious skill set is of interest to me. I think these are valuable to both competitive and defensive shooters. Subconscious techniques kick in when we shoot cold or under stress. You're shooting from the subconscious skill set whether after waiting an hour to shoot a stage or being jumped by armed bad guys. I try to be extra mindful of what I do when shooting cold. That is probably what I will do at the buzzer or under stress. I believe this also reveals what to focus on refining. Self Diagnosis Diagnosis to me means finding out why there is a the difference between what happened and what was desired. For me, shooting a gun is basically "aligning the gun with the target and making it go bang". If the intended target isn't hit then something wasn't aligned when it went bang. So, diagnosis starts there then I look at fundamentals...Okay, most of the time I usally blame the gun first. Great stuff Mike! DNH

The 550 "As it should be" package is worth it. The empty case bin, roller handle and bullet tray will increase reloading rate. They're the three places you touch for every cycle of the machine. DNH