AirForce2

I'm not familiar with the pencil test? I suppose I could flashlight the channel and check for burrs. tks

I thought I saw a post by Mark at Carbon Arms in another post about the bolt catching if you cycle it forward and catches the lifter relation and something about a set screw or lifter height? I'll look at the shell release, but It's pretty smoothed over. When you say the tail of the shell release, you mean the rearward portion that doesn't sit behind/against the shell in tube?

OK versa experts, I think I have a slight nagging issue on my versa comp model. I have 2 factory trigger assy's and each has an extended lifter done by C-Rums. I'm having a jam during cycling where the shell comes back onto the lifter but doesn't get kicked upward to feed and the bolt is open during firing. I thought is was the other assy since I had 3 in a few hundred rounds and swapped back to the orig and still had one today out of 50 rds. The one today was with some low recoil Winchester stuff and I distinctly remember the bolt being open and either pulling the bolt a hair or barely pushing up on the lifter made it kick into battery. It seems as if it's the point right when the bolt comes back and the lifter should flop new shell upward is the catch point. Not sure if the shell tube spring is a little weak and not throwing the shell hard enough rearward or what. I'm still running the rem factory spring. I've had this a few more times on one trigger assy vs the other and using normal power loads, but concerned I've got something a little fickle. Ideas?

The accu shadow already came with a long/ext firing pin. If memory serves me, the spring on the firing pin was already either cut down or weak as well. I think the CZ 13 # hammer spring was cut down also, and replaced it with the 15# from CGW but I don't remember if I cut the CGW or put it in full length now, but I think I left it full length. I don't shoot Tula or CCI primers much, just at the time it was the only ammo I could find reasonable price at the time due to the ammo & component shortage and bought 2k until I could get normal components. Just surprised so many people can shoot such a lower pd spring ie...8-13 pd with no issues and a 15# is still iffy for mine. I don't shoot Tula for any matches, just mix it in for practice and it prints pretty well for the price. I don't figure I shoot it enough to make a large "erosion" problem if the jacket is copper coated metal jacket. I just don't like having any gun go "click" instead of bang. I gave my accu to a guy recommended and local to me that used to work at the CZ custom shop and claimed he'd done hundreds of throat reams/extensions using a technique without a reamer/throater so I gave him 10 of my exact measured Mont Gld loaded dummy rounds at 1.130 OAL in HP 124gr and when I got it back it wouldn't lock up because the bullets were smushing into the rifling still and would barely take 1.110 with still resistance. Long story short, I fixed it myself. The guy that did the work said "it doesn't matter how it hand cycles it still will function under fire". There is never a time or firearm that should have resistance due to the bullet wedging into the rifling during loading is what I told him. One for functioning and 2nd for compressing the load.

Even after swapping out to a 15 pd hammer spring (CGW I think) vs 13 pd factory spg which seemed to work for a while and now started having issues with tula primers again. Are Tula primers that much harder than CCI? I don't shoot that much Tula ammo and these are Tula factory loaded not my reloads using just tula primers.

In case you are looking for skinnier front sight for the Accu Shadow, I've called Dawson Precision a few times and while they claim they need a slide so they can come up with some rear & front sight options and don't have one for the accu at this time. I did order a skinnier front sight from dawson and it slides in from the front and is fairly tight and should be held in the same as the cz one. I don't have the paperwork to reference since I ordered it over the phone but believe is was the .240 or .260 tall and .090 wide one and I think the PN is 019-129. Double check your conversions and call them, but I was shocked it fit so well. Now if I could only find a way to close up the rear sight width, I'd be happy. The thin front sight is great & still has a fiber optic but with the large rear blade opening, it's easy to think your on target when going fast and be off more than you thought. I've found no options out there to replace the hajo rear with a suitable adjustable rear sight option with a smaller blade opening.

Sold. Kinda feel like I lost a real hot girl. Spent a lota money on her, made er pretty, fixed some cosmetic flaws and high grade parts, finally had to get physical, then couldn't trust her and had to let r go. Halfway to a country song

You'd think I'd look at stuff like that with all the details in my forum, but to be honest I had to really try and remember. I'm pretty sure the bolt was open but I'm not positive. I also believe the shell may not have been back quite far enough onto the lifter. I thought I'd slightly polished both lifter's sharp edges but to be honest haven't been in to mood to troubleshoot. I'm sure it will nag on me and I'll look into it soon. As far as the conversation about the shell stop double springs thingy. I'm still running both, but there seems to be some confusion being spread on the shell stop/springs and loading the tube. Again, I've only worked on 2 shotguns (extensively) ever, the shell stop assy w/bolt forward (closed) keeps more tension to keep front shell stop portion into the chamber and behind the live shell in the tube (hence why unloading the tube w/bolt closed requires you to push quite hard on the shell stop to unload the gun versus when you attempt same task w/bolt pulled part/full back). When the bolt comes almost all the way rearward is likely when the bolt allows the rear portion of shell stop to swing into center of gun and conversely swings the front shell stop portion to the side & away from the live round in tube and feed back onto lifter. I also don't understand how the 2 springs or zero springs should change the tension of loading the shells into the tube. I'm so confident, that I won't even attempt to take springs out to test it. Triangle had ideas about the 2 springs, but I forget what it did going to one. I know you need to be careful, if you take a heat treated flat, thin steel and bend it to much or make cuts that allow it to bend easier this could work well under normal fire, but if you go to far, and you repeatedly unload the shell tube with bolt closed by pushing on the front shell stop to unload the chamber could cause it to bend instead of spring back. Remember what happens to a weak magazine spring if you try to stretch it! It can help, but know what your doing and don't do to much is always the trick.

My trigger groups have nothing to do with the 2 shell latch/shell stop springs and are unchanged if that mislead anyone. I swapped between the entire trigger housing assy, each one has it's own lifter. The shell stop & springs did not change. Likely culprit should not change out a like item that was working and blame it on a totally different part that I didn't swap out. Possible, yes. Probable, no. But weirder things have happened.

I had recently swapped to my other trigger group on my versa comp since I had 2 trigger assy's both with extended lifters and wanted to ensure they both worked. Well even though both lifter extensions were done by the same place, there must be a slight diff either between the lifter mods or the trigger groups because one of them seems to have occasional issue of a shell goes back onto the lifter, but doesn't get lifted up feed during live fire. Not sure exactly why so swapped back to the orig. I had 3 of these in just 50-70 rds of same usual ammo and one of them was when a fellow 3 gun shotgun guy used it.

The 930 JM Pro that started this topic is now for sale. The post can be viewed in Denver Armslist. It's in the same "working", "reliable functioning" state as it was on my last few posts after the trigger housing was replaced about half way up page 3. I function fired 50 rds again last week and still works and has had only around 150 rds since it was fixed. If you are in CO and trying to get a cheap working 3 gun shotgun, it's avail. I was keeping it as a backup and mainly just cause I put so much love & hate into it and learned a lot and finally it works good once the one feed from tube issue was resolved by a redesigned trigger assy replacement, but could use other toys and maybe someone else can make better use. Price is $750 firm.

Here are a few pics that show the 2nd round tweeks & finished load port area, foregrip, stippling, sights. I shot slugs at 100 yds the other day after putting the extended rem pro bore choke imp cyl instead of the briley X2, LM choke and the grouping seems a little better with rio low recoil slugs and 4 outa first 5 slugs were about 4 inch group and slug shots 5 & 6 made the group 6-7 inch total off a bench rest. I don't have any other chokes to try. I made sure the choke & load tube nut were tight down on the foregrip to. I see a slight advantage in tapering down the sides and bottom of the front foregrip if for nothing else the removal of sharp contours for you fingers and palm to glide over for load 2 & quads. I would also move the front loading port forward to almost the steel load tube. The stippling with larger round soldering bit looks ok & is very functional on the front & rear grips including the rubber sticker sections, but if you have the time & patience, the skinny pointed tip solder iron stipple job looks & feels much better and feels like skateboard tape, only not as abrasive. I stippled the orig but I have a spare foregrip I ordered from Rem was for the "sportsman" versa and has no rubber on it. You can compare the small pointed solder tip stipple job on my mossb to see which one you like better. I sent in my Pikes Peak Shotgun 2015 entry last week so hopefully I'll have a working shotgun to make my first major shotgun match redo not such a heart breaker.

Other than the suggestion to epoxy the bottom inside track of the foregrip, then grind and sand to make the quads work and open load port, if you want some pics and details that may help you look at my forum on the JM Pro Review by AirForce2. It should have some details and pics to help you. Pay close attention to the later updates about the proper way to contour the front section of the load port and which way to angle it or you'll screw up your quads for good. Easy to do with some cheap dremel, drill, grinder & grinder bits and polished bits from amazon to finish load port & foregrip. Once you take down/taper the rear and rear sides of the stock foregrip as the pics, you should be able quad pretty well. Keep in mind it was my first shotgun & gunsmithing venture on a shotgun. I also have a pic & description on the thumb entry load port angle comparison between my versamax and the same Jm Pro in my versamax review. Just takes some time and basic tools and for my first 2 shotguns, the only thing I've paid for the work is welding up the lifters (a must) for speed loading.

I'm a firm believer that if you have a properly broken in new gun (100 rds thru it) -the feed ramp is properly angled, smoothed, and top edge properly rounded -trusted brand of new mags (mecgar or cz) & newish springs -and you clean the gun well and medium oil moving parts -properly made bullets factory, or measured OAL, cases, reloads If your gun jams 1/2 inch from going into battery, that is quite a bit and if you can't see that the shell is at an angle into the chamber and is straight, then it's likely not a feed ramp issue. If the shell is straight with the barrel, it may be a fat rear (reloads w/bulged case) but with factory load, then maybe a lockup issue with the barrel/slide lugs. Can you duplicate this at home safely by hand cycling the gun? If during live fire, is the casing visible ie..angled jam to the barrel or is the shell straight into line w/barrel. you should be able to load a full magazine and with "medium" speed and smooth force be able to hand cycle the shells into and out of the gun. Many guns from the factory & not talking just CZ "any" manf, may cycle during the full boom & force but also may cycle harshly and not smoothly. If you moderately can cycle shells into and out of battery, your gun will likely run smooth during live fire. If you smoothly cycle at a medium rate/force by hand (not slowly but not snatching it back and letting go of the slide each round either) but more of a holding the slide and using even forward and back pressure to simulate cycling at a 50% rate the full range of the slide back and all the way closed and the gun seems to almost stop or does stop about 1/2 inch open, then something is a little off. Most people I've helped run into this especially when shooting hollowpoints, but also for roundnose jams. Most manfs don't round off the top edge of the ramp enough and since the shell never goes straight into the hole anyway, the combination of the angle of the shell, nose of the bullet and extractor all can put enough pressure to cause a jam of the shell about half way into the chamber at an angle (usually this is the portion during hand cycling that feels like a speed bump) and the gun will usually go into battery with a hard palm to the rear slide. This takes the recoil spring out of the equation more and tests the feed ramp/extractor angles & smoothness more. Also look at the bottom of the extractor because they can have a sharp point that tends to dig into the forward part of the rim angle or sandwich the rear rim into the extractor cut and create drag or jams. Files are not my preferred way to polish or angle a feed ramp or the top ramp edge nor for extractor hooks (maybe to knock of the sharp bottom corner of extr hks) then a polish type abrasive like a pencil eraser that takes just a little metal but polishes metal like 700-1000 grit to finish. I've almost never had a pistol or manf that didn't need some improvement to the areas above. Not saying the gun didn't work, but I generally make them better. Some guns had jamming and hand cycling can help you "feel" and duplicate the issue without firing. Hope this help.

I have a stock CMMG M4 16 inch 1:9 twist barrel and added JP bolt, JP adj gas block, SJC comp, stock carrier, JP silent capture, JP Easy Trigger, UTG Pro Super Slim 13 inch handguard. With a Vortex SPARC II, 2 MOA dot: 200 yds, .223 American Eagle black box 55 gr= 2 inch group at 200 yds I'd like to think it would print better if not for just a 2 moa red dot scope. I've tried hornady steel match 62 or 72 gr bthp, federal boattail hollow point 62 gr bla bla and none print better than the plain black box, so I'm not gonna spend a bunch of money trying anything else except maybe black hills. I guess I should be happy the cheap stuff prints the best, huh. I'd guess for a cheap plinker barrel I'm sure the CMMG barrel I have is not much money.

Hmmm, After smoothing out the versa competition forcing cone rough lines/rings, I shot some 15 rds split between low recoil rio slugs & low recoil federal tru ball slugs a few weeks ago and having trouble getting consistent grouping at 100 yds. The group is about 12 inches or more with either rio or fed. It's no better or worse after smoothing out the cone. I had good results with the rio low recoil slugs out of my Mossberg 930 appx 6 inch or less and I thought I had a good grouping early on with the versamax competition that I remember ie...more like a 4-6 inch at 100 yds. Surprisingly the leading in the forcing cone area still seems pretty high for just 15 rds thru a smoother forcing cone than what it was. Maybe I can't really keep the leading from occurring due to the cone in general. I can deal with the leading, but not the accuracy grouping. I feel confident the front & rear sights are good and tight, and the tube ext is tight so the only thing I can think of is maybe the choke it doesn't like. I swapped from the pro bore LM early on that came with to a briley LM X2 as of late, so I may swap back to the pro bore LM and try improved cyl see if it's any difference in grouping . So far the $100 and time spent to polish the forcing cone didn't seem to gain me anything except looks prettier in the bore or maybe since I only got 75% of the roughness polished out, baaaahhh crap who knows, it's always something.

There are multiple areas that could cause this issue. Some items to check: How old & how many rounds thru the gun? -make sure to either remove the shell stop assy and ensure no debris is stuck behind or spray, pick out any if not removing shell assy to inspect. -if the tube spring is to strong & long, this can either cause to much pressure against the front of shell stop. Spring should be appx 14-15 inches past the tube w/cap off (20 is to long). Mossy stock spring should not be 20-22 inch past end of tube (even if you have added an additional ext the same rule applies). If you switch from stock mossy spring to nordic, the spring should be cut down to appx 12-13 inch max since nordic springs are much thicker & stiffer. -look for any burrs on the bolt track that rides against the shell stop assy (this is what allows the shell stop assy to tilt in & out during cycling) -You may need to polish the front side of the shell stop assy and the sharp edge a little more (not file, polish and form) -see if anny info on the giant mossberg JM Pro post gives to any insight. Pay special atten to the pics of the new mossy trigger assy diff vs the one that came w/mine. Good luck.

I know there are many opt's out there but I've tried hi viz and tru glo and the tru glo dual bead front & adj rear set is the best option for me. I like and dislike some things about both brands but the tru glo rear is adjustable elev & windage and is the smallest. I suggest using clear epoxy around the whole fiber optic section on the front & rear just to give it a little less risk of fibers breaking & falling out/off or if your gun hits a prop during recoil/dumping and slotted screws instead of the tiny allen/hex screw heads for the rear sight avail at most hw stores (always seem to strip the hex tool insert). I also use JB weld under the front sight since the little trough around the rib is not exact fitting. Here's what they look like on my setup. TRU•BEAD™ TURKEY UNIVERSAL DUAL•COLOR SKU: TG950XD

I ordered the amazon one listed in the above post from M8Stealth. Here is the brush research site address: http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c2=6 Again, if you have multiple shotguns you might do over time or more than one shotgun, I highly suggest getting a 400 grit to start (monitor closer so as not to removed to much, maybe to where you still see a little of the lines/roughness) and swithc to the 800 grit to finish or you might use up most the 800 grit hone on one barrel, depending on how bad the lines are. Also didn't think about it, but I assume some knife sharpening hone oil would likely work found locally. Before you hone, "MAKE SURE TO REMOVE ALL LEADING 1st". There is no solvent that I'm aware of that can remove caked on lead quickly, so use a screen/brush copper brillo pad that is softer than the steel barrel first. Some copper brillo type pads may only be copper coated and steel underneath, so be aware of that, I suppose doing it once may not be to harmful, but many attempt could scar up the finish. Make sure you oil coat the barrel sections that were honed after so as not to rust & once barrel is seasoned, just light oil. I also had less but still a lot of lead in the X2, LM, ext choke, so that may need some cleaning of lead and maybe the fine hone may help the leading in the choke and requires closer inpsection and care before honing your choke (I suggest removing the choke to hone it. Pls post if you see any neg/pos results/thoughts on honing the force cone & choke areas. tks

Did some research on the forcing cone lead buildup which was getting pretty bad in a 3 inch section just forward of the chamber. This section on my shotgun was quite rough and I'm pretty sure contributed to the high amount of leading and likely some inaccuracy on my slugs as of late and likely extra deformation of pellets even. I ordered a "brush research flex hone" via amazon (800 grit/fine model) and some honing oil. The results are much improved and I likely should have used the medium grit first and then a fine grit to finish. It takes a lot longer for the fine grit 800 sc grit but didn't want to spend for 2 hones. First I had to find some copper brillo material to wrap around the brass/copper cleaning brush and it took quite a while to scrap out the lead residue in the forcing cone & briley X2 LM choke. The amount of lead that came out was shocking to me with only about 50 slugs through the versa. There a still some slight lines in the forcing cone but the finish is much smoother and about 75% of the lines gone. The hone tightened into my drill like a bit would and would have liked the hone to have been longer so I wouldn't have had to go in at an angle since the drill mass was in the way. I will test it over the next few months and let you know how/if this improves the leading and accuracy.

If any of you read this and have a way to contact Mark P. from carbon arms or match director or equiv. I need to bow out of Noveske Match short notice for a family emergency. Just tell him a slot is open and to check his ph & carbon arms site email. tks AirForce2

If any of you are working noveske setup and can contact Mark P. for me I have to bow out of the Noveske. I have a family emergency. Just tell him to check his ph msgs & carbon arms site email. tks AirForce2

I need some thoughts from shotgun barrel experts out there on this item that I noted on page one and add pics here. I noticed early on the 2-3 inch section just in front of the chambered shell in the barrel had a very rough texture and lines that were very rough and noticeably tighter due to the roughness than the rest of the barrel when running a patch thru, then the rest of the barrel forward seems pretty mirror smooth. This was only with maybe none or 10 low recoil slugs and appx 50 rds bird and none no more than 1200 fps in the page one post. Now, looking thru this same area and brushing out the barrel every few hundred rounds and never more than 20 slugs in that group (low recoil), this portion of the barrel has a ton of lead and after using Montana mike and hoppes #9 and scrubbing with a brass 12 ga brush, steel toothbrush it sure seems to be caked in there. These are pics after spending an hour on it. I realize leading starts at the back of guns, but is this expected to have such a rough finish in this part of a shotgun barrel. It sure seems to invite massive buildup and seems the "smoothbore" should have been smoothed further back. My concern is accuracy (as of late with flyer slugs), leading pushing into the gas ports & pistons areas which it seems there is some slight leading along with the powder on the pistons. I waited on ph today 30 min to talk with Rem about it and got tired of waiting. I did look at a rem tactical off the shelf and it seems to have similar rough lines in this area. When my pistols got leading the easiest way was to blast 5-10 jacketed rounds thru to clean it but I guess it's just manual labor for this? Do the professional gunsmiths think this is ok or should it be smoother. If this is not good, how would you or have you fixed it and should it be smoother just front of the shell area? If this is the norm, how can this part be made smoother or how can I get this lead out of there since solvent and brass brush are not cutting it. Even when all the lead is out it would still look like the 4th pic which was when the gun was barely shot & brand new. Do folks with other 12 ga ie..benneli, rem, mossy, have this kind of marks and/or leading. Tks -------------------- Never mind. Researched on web and seems the only way to fix it is get a shotgun forcing cone hone and grind/polish it up. Not sure if a steel wool & polish/grinding compound would work on a brush. Another $50-100 tool from brush research (sold on brownells) to polish out the rough machine forcing cone reamer marks from the factory cut. On the good side maybe it makes the patterns more uniform, deforms pellets less, and maybe even smoother recoil, and less hours of scrubbing out lead or using special metal screens to scrub out the lead.

Thanks, nice to know it was done for some intent. I mainly bought the CZ Accu for USPSA Production pistol class, but gonna use it in some multigun stuff to. It seems it's a good fit for uspsa multigun in limited & tactical if your shooting minor. Silly question for you guys that have shot limited/tactical multigun uspsa. Do some shoot a limited division in multigun and have the pistol in .40 scoring major for B & C zone hits and yet shoot .223 rifle as minor hits for B & C zone, and is that allowed? I was under impression like in pistol only limited division match you have to claim/enter as either major or minor but with multigun can you mix and match your minor or major for both guns as a scoring advatage ie...shoot a .40 major pistol and a minor .223 AR rifle. I guess my thought was you shoot all guns major or all guns minor.

My CMMG M4 16 inch 1 in 9 barrel, JP trigger, bolt, silent cap recoil setup, utg pro slim 12 in free float handguard, with Vortex Sparc II, 2 moa dot have tried some 62 gr bthp american eagle, 75 gr hornady steel match bthp, and the black box american eagle .223 still consistently out groups them at 100 yds with 1 inch grouping. It's a little slow but if speeds or PF is not an issue for ya.