Zak Smith

Likewise, for short-range/large-target fodder, there's no reason to use expensive (ie, commercial) or high-effort ammo. Shooting local MOR to 400 yards (Pueblo), I can use basically any 125-155gr bullet with my normal powder charge and not notice any difference. Shooting Australian F4 ball, I just add 0.2mil at 580 yards. -z

Match "intel" is important. Don't want to show up at the ITRC without asking around first! Is single loading an AR-style rifle a big deal? Leave a magazine in, drop a round into the port, and hit the bolt release? Upon firing, the bolt is locked open, ready to go? Works on my AR15 anyway.

At the ITRC, SPSC-West, and TACPRO sniper matches, autos are "allowed". These type of matches sometimes have a caliber restriction (eg, 6mm to 300WM), but are basically "open" besides that. It's up to you to figure out what's an appropriate rifle for the match. Of those three matches, two (SPSC and TACPRO) had more close shots (300 or less) than far shots and both included some speed shooting stages which would have been easier with a semi-auto (e.g. 20 flies @ 100 yards). At the ITRC, all the precision shots are far and there is no real detriment to even single-loading. So they can work, but you kind of need to do match research to figure out what would be the best bet. SPSC could have been shot with an accurate 20" AR15. There were a bunch of AR10's at TACPRO, etc. -z

I guess poking fun at the old-school match loads has confused the point, which had nothing to do with "best" long range match loads and everything to do with cheap practice ammo to save time at distances and target sizes when it doesn't matter. In any case: 1. If you google for 1000 yard use of the 168SMK, you will find all sorts of info on how it should not be use at that distance. 2. 175SMK: BC 0.496 from 1800 - 2800fps 168SMK: BC 0.462 downto 2600, 0.447 downto 2100 Berger 168VLD: 0.512 Berger 175VLD: 537 155 Scenar: 0.508 Run the numbers with reasonable MVs and see.... No reason to shoot a slower and lower-BC bullet unless the better one won't shoot accurately in your barrel. -z

Discussing precision/MOR rifle calibers, we love to crunch numbers and consider every ballistic subtlety, only use brass and bullets made in elvish sweatshops, and spend countless hours whispering sweet nothings to our reloading gear keeping it consistent enough to ward off a Six Sigma Blackbelt. Consider that some of the decent 140-150gr surplus ball ammo currently available will shoot about 1 MOA (if not better) in most of our good 308 bolt rifles. That's good enough to hit a 10" plate at 500 yards, easy. If you are still using inferior 308 match loads (ie, a 175SMK or worse a 168), that means 0.75MOA hold-under at 500 yards. If your standard load doesn't suck (ie, a 155 Scenar), you just ignore the elevation difference of 0.25 MOA. Wind differences is less than 2" more per 10mph. Cost is about half, lots less time spent loading, and you can chuck the brass afterwards. For practice or action stages to 400-500 yards, no sense in wasting your "good" ammo. -z

Seen in my driveway... [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] My old car (currently for sale, cheap) [ link to LARGER image ] "cogito ergo armor", "Molon lable"

The issue with 7-08 is that pretty much the ONLY bullets with decent BC are the ones above 160gr I named before. And by your data, you'll be limited to 2760fps with the 162gr AMAX which is pretty slow. If you go down in bullet weight, there's nothing really with a BC higher than 0.500, so what do you gain over 308? Those heavy high-BC bullets launched at slow velocities result in more drop per incremental yard, which means range estimation gets much more critical. Here's a comparison of a bunch of loads/calibers, with loads I think are reasonable. I put them sorted by wind drift first, since that's most important as long as the trajectory is reasonably flat too. (The formatting is F'd because a fixed-width font is not specified by the board code for CODE sections. It ought to be fixed-- works on the other boards fine) _Bullet_ _BC_ _MV_ 0 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 | YARDS 7RM 168 VLD 0.648 2950 > 0.00 0.41 1.67 3.85 7.00 11.19 16.50 23.02 30.84 | wind (inches) 300WM 210 VLD 0.640 2870 > 0.00 0.43 1.76 4.05 7.38 11.81 17.43 24.34 32.62 | wind (inches) 284 168VLD 0.648 2830 > 0.00 0.43 1.77 4.08 7.43 11.89 17.55 24.49 32.83 | wind (inches) 260AI 140gr VLD 0.620 2930 > 0.00 0.43 1.77 4.07 7.42 11.88 17.54 24.50 32.87 | wind (inches) 284 162AMAX 0.627 2830 > 0.00 0.45 1.84 4.23 7.70 12.34 18.22 25.47 34.17 | wind (inches) 260 140 VLD 0.620 2820 > 0.00 0.46 1.87 4.30 7.84 12.56 18.56 25.95 34.82 | wind (inches) 7-08 162AMAX 0.627 2760 > 0.00 0.46 1.90 4.38 7.99 12.80 18.92 26.45 35.49 | wind (inches) 260 123 Scenar 0.540 3000 > 0.00 0.48 1.98 4.57 8.35 13.42 19.90 27.92 37.61 | wind (inches) 300WM 190 SMK 0.53* 2970 > 0.00 0.50 2.04 4.70 8.60 13.82 20.51 28.80 38.86 | wind (inches) 308 210 VLD 0.640 2470 > 0.00 0.53 2.19 5.05 9.21 14.78 21.85 30.54 40.97 | wind (inches) 308 155 Scenar 0.508 2910 > 0.00 0.54 2.20 5.10 9.34 15.05 22.39 31.49 42.55 | wind (inches) 308 155 Scenar 0.508 2830 > 0.00 0.56 2.29 5.31 9.73 15.69 23.34 32.85 44.40 | wind (inches) 308 175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > 0.00 0.61 2.51 5.84 10.72 17.32 25.80 36.38 49.26 | wind (inches) 308 175 SMK 0.51* 2650 > 0.00 0.63 2.58 6.00 11.02 17.81 26.55 37.44 50.72 | wind (inches) 308 190 SMK 0.53* 2500 > 0.00 0.63 2.61 6.05 11.11 17.94 26.73 37.63 50.83 | wind (inches) 308 168 SMK 0.46* 2780 > 0.00 0.63 2.61 6.13 11.34 18.47 27.83 39.67 54.27 | wind (inches) 308 168 SMK 0.46* 2700 > 0.00 0.66 2.75 6.44 11.92 19.47 29.35 41.83 57.24 | wind (inches) 260 120 SMK 0.410 2850 > 0.00 0.69 2.85 6.65 12.29 20.00 30.03 42.64 58.13 | wind (inches) 223 Hor 75 0.395 2670 > 0.00 0.78 3.26 7.64 14.16 23.11 34.77 49.44 67.41 | wind (inches) 7RM 168 VLD 0.648 2950 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.00 5.25 7.75 10.25 13.25 16.25 | drop (Qt moa) 300WM 210 VLD 0.640 2870 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.25 5.75 8.25 11.00 14.25 17.50 | drop (Qt moa) 284 168VLD 0.648 2830 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.50 5.75 8.50 11.50 14.50 18.00 | drop (Qt moa) 260AI 140gr VLD 0.620 2930 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.25 5.50 8.00 10.75 13.50 16.75 | drop (Qt moa) 284 162AMAX 0.627 2830 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.50 6.00 8.50 11.50 14.75 18.25 | drop (Qt moa) 260 140 VLD 0.620 2820 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.50 6.00 8.75 11.75 15.00 18.50 | drop (Qt moa) 7-08 162AMAX 0.627 2760 > -0.00 0.00 1.50 3.75 6.25 9.25 12.25 15.50 19.25 | drop (Qt moa) 260 123 Scenar 0.540 3000 > -0.00 0.00 1.00 3.00 5.25 7.75 10.50 13.50 16.75 | drop (Qt moa) 300WM 190 SMK 0.53* 2970 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.00 5.50 8.00 10.75 14.00 17.25 | drop (Qt moa) 308 210 VLD 0.640 2470 > -0.00 0.00 2.00 5.00 8.25 11.75 15.75 20.00 24.75 | drop (Qt moa) 308 155 Scenar 0.508 2910 > -0.00 0.00 1.25 3.25 5.75 8.50 11.50 15.00 18.50 | drop (Qt moa) 308 155 Scenar 0.508 2830 > -0.00 0.00 1.50 3.50 6.25 9.00 12.25 16.00 19.75 | drop (Qt moa) 308 175 SMK 0.51* 2700 > -0.00 0.00 1.75 4.00 7.00 10.25 14.00 18.00 22.50 | drop (Qt moa) 308 175 SMK 0.51* 2650 > -0.00 0.00 1.75 4.25 7.25 10.75 14.50 18.75 23.50 | drop (Qt moa) 308 190 SMK 0.53* 2500 > -0.00 0.00 2.00 5.00 8.25 12.25 16.25 21.00 26.00 | drop (Qt moa) 308 168 SMK 0.46* 2780 > -0.00 0.00 1.50 4.00 6.75 10.00 13.50 17.50 22.25 | drop (Qt moa) 308 168 SMK 0.46* 2700 > -0.00 0.00 1.75 4.25 7.25 10.75 14.50 19.00 23.75 | drop (Qt moa) 260 120 SMK 0.410 2850 > -0.00 0.00 1.50 3.75 6.50 9.75 13.25 17.25 22.00 | drop (Qt moa) 223 Hor 75 0.395 2670 > -0.00 0.00 1.75 4.50 7.75 11.50 15.75 20.75 26.50 | drop (Qt moa) Any shot (within 1000 yards) that can be made with 260 can be made with 308. The shooter has less margin of error for wind estimation with 308, that's it (about 20% more drift with the 308). 260 will have less recoil than the 155 308 loads, but just by a little bit. Looking at the numbers, the 155 Lapua Scenar for 308 is a great bullet-- same BC as the 175SMK, but you can shoot it over 2900fps from a 24" bbl. It has the same drop as 260/140VLD out to 800 yards. If you're doing that with 308, then only real ballistic benefit of switching to 260 would be 8" less wind drift at 800 yards (10mph cross). The reason I say that 308 isn't bad, compared to 260, is this: how many misses are due to the shooter screwing up and not merely misjudging the wind by 2 mph? If we're dealing with wind in the 5mph regime, then 4" difference at 800 yards usually won't mean the difference between a hit and a miss (ie, it would be right on the edge of a 8" wide target-- and that's a small target at 800y). On short (ie to 400-500 yard) MOR stages, you can use cheaper, lighter (ie, lower BC) bullets to reduce recoil. It won't make a difference on typical target sizes. Hell, my AWP shoots the Australian F4 surplus ball good enough to make hits on 10" steel to 500 yards every time using my "normal" dope! The 308 barrel will last a lot longer, and there are better components available for less reloading effort (e.g. Lapua 308 brass good to go from the box). If you want a big jump in ballistic capability, both wind and elevation, you pretty much need a bigger case than the -08 family. But on the -08 case, if you're building from the ground up, can put up with shorter barrel life, and don't mind more reloading effort, then 260 is the better choice. If you want more barrel life and a more simple ammo situation, 308 is fine. I guess my overall point is that shooting skill is more important than subtle differences between 260, 7-08, and 308, for our types of games (MOR to the ITRC let's say). If you step up in powder capacity to the -284 case (ie, 6.5-284) or a magnum case, you get way better ballistics with the right bullet at the expense of barrel life, mag capacity, recoil, etc. (That's also ignoring wildcats like the 260AI...) -z

7-08 just doesn't have the powder capacity to push the high BC 7mm bullets fast-- which include the 162gr AMAX, 168 & 180gr Berger. You might be able to get 2800fps from the AMAX. There are more decent choices in 6.5 bullets from Berger, Sierra, and Lapua. But 308 isn't that bad... -z

Shoot the highest BC bullet you can find, and still get a reasonably flat trajectory. IMO, the first-focal plane Horus reticle is the only (fast) way to go in MOR.

The difference downrange between a 18" and 20" is inconsequential.

308 cases can be necked down to 260, but you'll probably need to turn the case necks down.

I still have the video of the USAS and the deagle....

I've blew a few individual primers, and I've blown the whole priming system.

Some general parameters would help.. like sedan, sports car, SUV, truck, etc. I recently bought an '05 Nissan, but I only looked at SUVs and trucks... -z

Ha!! At TacPro, we had up to two shots per each target at 800, 900, and 1000 to make one hit. Almost 2/3 of the shooters had no hits at all out of those 6 shots, myself included. In individual competition, it's up to you to spot misses; sometimes the RO will help out if he sees them. In team matches, your partner generally spots for you. if misses are spottable at all, I've never had a problem spotting for myself. -z

At the ITRC, SPSC-West, and the TacPro match, there were the following targets: At 100: 1/4, 1/2", 1" dots. At 200: approx 2" targets. 10" flash targets from 300 - 500. 10" flash targets from 700-1000. Larue steel (28x18?) to 800. Besides the really small dots at 100 (often in a K-Y-L stage), they are usually no smaller than 1 MOA.

I don't lose anything to my 20" JP gun when shooting the 17" Paul built for me. Have shot basically the same stage to 400 yards with both and times were basically identical.

EQUIPMENT: [ link to LARGER image ] I shot my 24" AI-AWP (308) with a USO 3.2-17x44mm SN3 with Horus H25 reticle. It had a solid 100 yard "Denver" zero, and I used data from a ballistics program for TacPro's environme ntal conditions (3000-4000' density altitude). Pistol was my Dan Wesson Patriot 1911, for no reason other than I shot all my SV Limited 40 ammo at MGM two weeks ago, but still had a bunch of 45 loaded. I carried a TT 3-day pack for my raingear, ammo, mags, LRF, binocs, databook, pen, paper, etc. Everything worked well. 308 is a good choice for this match since the vast majority was in 100-500 yards. The metric-click SN3 with the Horus is a great choice, as long as the usag e model is kept pretty simple. I was able to dial, or use the reticle, or a combination as the stage dictated. On the field courses which required ranging and engaging multiple tar gets, the Horus saved time because I set it back to 0 and used hold-over based on the LRF readings. On the "Stop the Truck" (50BMG starting) stage, I used the EREK knob to dial the intermediate target distance zero, then held under the right amount for the close target, and then us ed the incremental holdover in the reticle for the far set of targets. I had been worried about the thick lines of the H25 obscuring targets. This was only an issue on the smallest targets, and I can dial up to +1 or +4 mils on the EREK, and then use t he corresponding "hold under" point in the reticle, where the lines happen to be finer. The adjustable illumination the H25 reticle was perfect on the night stages. The H25 is good for ranging. Detachable 10 round magazines were vital to succeeding at this match. GENERAL COMMENTS: The match was a good mix of field, precision, and "pathological"/limit stages. I would have preferred more field courses vs. square-range exercises. Texas is extremely hot and full of biting insects. RESULTS: Top 10- 1 Mike Bialka 2 Jacob Bynum 3 Terry Cross 4 Eddie Abraham 5 Adam Popplewell 6 Grank Galli 7 Zak Smith 8 Bach Melick 9 Jim Clark 10 George Gardner Full- [ link to LARGER image ] Rest of pictures here: http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/TACPRO-2005/

Stop The Truck: Start shooting an AI-50BMG rifle with a JET suppressor on a large steel plate at 500 yards (the "truck"), two rounds. Then engage five LaRue targets at semi-unknown distances (you can guess easily) with your rifle. [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] Scope: Range two known-size targets in the field using any optics but no laser range finders.

Surveillance: non-shooting stage. Observe a swath of woods for 15 minutes. Find all the shooting related items; write down their description, location, and distance. This was diff icult due to unstable positions and mirage. [ link to LARGER image ] Tower: On a approx 50' tower, range and engage a LaRue target (about 600 yards), engage a mover at about 160 yards, shoot straight down at some dots, and engage dots at about 80 yard s. This was a real fun stage. The tower, though large, sways just a little bit which adds difficulty. Getting all the shots off in the time was a challenge too. [ link to LARGER image ] Prairie Dogs: Range and shoot 5 mini poppers under time pressure. This was a fun field course for the same reasons as the other one. Night Shoot 1 & 2: At 200 yards, shoot your 4 filled water balloons. At 100 yards, shoot a bunch of dots, which were illuminated for 6 seconds for each of 2 shots. [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] Hot Way Out: A scenario based on your "#2" getting killed and you, the sniper, having to bug out. When the RO yells, "GO", you grab the Colt 9mm SMG, engage two steel silhouettes at about 15 yards. When it's empty, you sling your rifle and run up the path killing all the poppers along it with your pistol. Finish up shooting two LaRues with your rifle over the hood of a truck. This was a real fun field stage.

STAGES Cold Bore 1: 100 yards, must take out "hostage taker" on 9x11" sheet of paper, leaving hostage intact. This was one of the easier CB stages I've shot, since the kill zone was pretty big. Cold Bore 2 (day 2): 200 yards, same hostage target @ 200 yards. This was a little more difficult, but still doable. [ link to LARGER image ] Barricade: Shooting small dots at 200 yards, 3 shots from each of prone, sitting, kneeling, standing, and weak side prone from a barricade. This was tough since the target dots were pretty small and the mirage was terrible. [ link to LARGER image ] See Dots: Shoot small dots under time at 100 yards. Tack Driver: Centerpunch 5 small dots at 100 yards. The mirage made these two events difficult. KYL: paper Know Your Limitations at 100 yards. The largest was probably 1.5-2" diameter, the second maybe 0.75-1" diameter. The rest were "really small". [ link to LARGER image ] Run Down: Run 50 yards and then engage small dots on paper at about 100 yards. Known Distance: 10" square flash targets at 800, 900, and 1000 yards. This stage was a killer, and most people didn't hit any of them. The mirage was tough. Spotting misses was pr etty much impossible. Wind was very tricky. [ link to LARGER image ] Flies: Shooting 10 "flies" at 100 yards under time pressure. Pond: Field Course-- in something like 2 minutes, you must range and shoot 5 LaRue targets. This was a fun field course. You shot from in the terrain, and you shot targets arranged in the terrain. Getting good range information was important. Birds: Shooting 6 large and 2 small (I think) clay birds on a backer at 300 yards. This was fun because you could see them break when hit. Group: Shoot a group at 500 yards. Faces: Remember your face and shoot it at 100 yards in time. Each face was a full 9x11" sheet of paper which made ID-ing your target easy, but you still had to shoot the "kill zone" .

The 2005 TacPro Sniper Tournament took place on Sat-Sun Jun 25-26 at the TacPro training center between Mingus and Stephenville TX. Many people know of TacPro as the best Accuracy I nternational dealer in the country. Four Colorado 3Gun/rifle shooters including myself attended this match. After the 12 hour drive from Denver, we arrived at TacPro around 5PM and proceeded to sight-in on the 1000 yard range. We were all using "Denver" (ie, 5000' elevation) zeros with data for TacPro's elevation printed from the computer (e.g. Sierra or equivalent). The data proved close, so we retired to our Hotel in Stephenville only to find it "dry" and the nearest liquor store across the County Line about 20 minutes away. That solved, we got down to proper match prep aration... The shooter's meeting at 9AM Saturday morning revealed that 60 shooters had registered. One proved to be a no-show, leaving 59 shooters. There would be two squads with 31 scheduled courses of fire. We were to carry all of our gear around the match, only retrieving water and ammo from out cars in the morning or at lunch. Having sorted-out gear was a benefit, and packing light was also a benefit. Cold water was provided on every range. This proved to be important as the temps were consistently at 98-100F all day every day. Minimum round count was listed as 200 rifle and 50 pistol. The pistol had to be worn the entire match. The match was a mixture of the following elements: precision, KYL, cold bore, and I.D. exercises at 100 and 200 yards; positional shooting at 200 yards; known distance 800, 900, and 1000 yards; running stress; field courses; a 500 yard group; 300 yard clays; a surveillance exercise; a ranging exercise (no lasers allowed); the tower field course; a 50BMG course at 300-500 yards; two night shoot events at 100 and 200 yards; and a pistol "gully" field course. It exercised a mix of skills, though had less field course shooting than we prefer. Here's a rundown of the stages as I can remember them.

50BMG McMillan stock & action, Rock bbl, put together by GAP. USO SN-3, 3.8-22x44mm, metric, mil-scale. I use it mainly for blowing up far away things at the local machinegun shoots a couple times each year. Gotta love surplus API, M8 Inc, and tracer....

Here's my other "MOR"-- [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] 19.1 mils to 1 mile.... [ link to LARGER image ] -z

Following paraman1's lead, here's my MOR/precision setup-- [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] [ link to LARGER image ] Accuracy International AWP 308 24", muzzle brake fitted by GAP, US Optics SN-3 Horus H25 metric, AI mount machined to fit. I shoot long range field / precision / sniper matches more often than (outlaw) MOR matches, so it's set up a little more for those. I shot it with the old Leupold 3.5-10x40mm at the Snipers Paradise match, and I'm heading out to TacPro later this week. It shoots just about any match ammo to the limit of what I'm capable of, which is bugholes @ 100 on a good day and embarassingly poor on a bad day. [ link to LARGER image ]