Bill

Duane, If no number of rounds are specified, what if a shooter fires 2 shots at a target, both minus 3's. Is the shooter down 6 points or 1 point the way you are talking about? How about if they fire 2 "5's" can you get 2.5 seconds subtracted from your score? I edited my post to remove mention of a one-time experimental controversial stage that could only confuse the issue. If anyone wants details they can e-mail me. Bill Nesbitt (Edited by BILL at 8:15 am on Sep. 21, 2001)

I guess it just depends on the course description. All the matches I have gone to including all 4 National Championships specify the minimum number of rounds that will be scored. Bill Nesbitt

Duane, Was that Washington State match scored by Vickers count or Paladin? Sounds more like Paladin. I figure I have shot over 100 IDPA matches since it started. That would amount to in excess of 500 stages. In EVERY Vickers count stage a minimum number of rounds would be scored according to the match description. I have seen any number from 1 to 6 per target. If for instance 2 rounds per target were specified then only firing one "5" would give you minus 5 points for the extra shot not fired. Each shot not fired would add 2.5 seconds to your time. NOT good. If only one round per target is scored then top shooters will only fire one round unless a make up shot is needed. I am not Ernie or Rob but I can tell you they get all the points they can. Usually the top shooters will fire the minimum number of rounds specified by the course design and occasionally will fire an extra make up shot to get maximum points. Bill Nesbitt

I went out to try some Bill drills the other day. 5 inch .45, Blade-Tech holster. I did a 2.64 & a 2.69. I had a couple others where I wasn't seeing the sight properly. I won't tell about them. Then I used my 3 inch Model 10 S&W with a Blade-Tech holster. 2.72, down 0, 2.85 down 1 & 3.08 down 0. Funny how when you watch the sights the hits get better. Bill Nesbitt

I have been thinking about the discussions about IPSC & IDPA Classifications being one more difficult than the other or the various classes not being in line with one another. How about if the shooters at this forum shot the other discipline's Classifiers? That way we could find out how close they are. Some of you already shoot both. I shot USPSA/IPSC for 15 years until all the local clubs switched to IDPA. I now shoot IDPA. When I was shooting USPSA my high classifications were 83.890 Open & 83.364 Limited. Almost Master but not quite. In IDPA I have recently (after much practice) moved into Master in SSP, ESP & SSR. I have not yet reached Master in CDP. I think the break at Master is pretty close. There is no Grand Master in IDPA although there are a few who could be in it. I have been looking at the USPSA web site at the classifiers. Several of these I shot back in the 1980's I guess if they were good then they still are. How about if a few of the IPSC shooters picked 3 or 4 USPSA classifiers for the IDPA shooters to shoot. How about Hoser Heaven? It used to be known as 88-6. I liked to shoot it back then. Or some others that are easy to set up but still are challanging. The IDPA classifier is available at http://www.idpa.com Remember the reloads are either slidelock or tac reloads. You can use an IPSC target but need to draw an 8 inch circle for the "A" zone. Put the top of the circle one inch below the top of the A zone on the IPSC target and it will be close enough for our purposes. Use a Limited or Production gun so the comparison will be close. Of course nothing says you can't use a scoped open gun, just tell us. I still have some left over IPSC targets to use. We can post the results here. The percentages for IDPA are posted at their web site. We may need to do some math to compare IPSC scores. What do you think? I know many of the USPSA shooters are going to the Nationals this week & I am going to the IDPA Nationals the first week in October so it won't be until after that. I think it will be fun. Bill Nesbitt

This spring I was at an IDPA match where one stage was the Bill Drill. I shot it in 2.7 seconds down 2 points with a Model 10 S&W. That is the IDPA target with an 8 inch "A-zone". The next shooter was Bill Wilson himself. He also shot it in 2.7 seconds. Of course he wasn't down any points. Bill Nesbitt

Singlestack, All my local clubs shoot IDPA now. I don't have enough weekends now to shoot everyplace I can and still mow the grass etc. I think I will go to the USPSA web site and read the rules. I know a lot of them have changed in the last few years. Bill Nesbitt

KJames, My wife is a lefty and has no problem using her trigger finger to release the magazine. She doesn't have to change her grip to reach the button like a right handed shooter. Right handed shooters used to put an ambi safety on their 1911's so they could release the mag with their trigger finger. You can get a slightly extended release button like comes on Kimbers that will make it a little easier. There is nothing in the rule book about ambi mag releases. Ambi safeties are allowed. You could send an e-mail to IDPA HQ and ask. Bill Nesbitt

John, I went back and reread my posts to make sure I wasn't IPSC bashing. I don't want to bash IPSC/USPSA or any other shooting sport. All the shooting sports are good and we all want to stick together. My main complaint is with course design. There would not be an IDPA today if course designers had simply designed better stages. I have no problem with high round count stages as long as they give everybody a reasonably even chance. I started shooting IPSC/USPSA in 1981 and shot it last around 1997 or 1998. I saw course design round count go up when allowed magazine capacity went up. When Devel 8 round mags were invented we shot 8 shots at each position. 38 Supers upped it to 10 rounds at each position. Round count steadily went up at each shooting position until you had to shoot 20 or more rounds at each shooting position. These stages were designed by people according to their own mag capacity so they had an advantage. Why not give shooters a couple of steps to reload?? USPSA did start Limited but that evolved to where you still had to have a HiCap 40. My Para 45 that I was shooting still had to make standing reloads. If you give the top 10 GM a stock 1991 in 45 ACP they will be beat by the other GM & Masters that are shooting state of the art guns. I hope this makes my opinion a little more clear. I am only upset with course designers who only wanted to win or "get somebody". We have a little of the same problem in IDPA but not so bad. Hope all the IPSC shooters here don't hate me now. Bill Nesbitt

smoney, I think we are allowed to talk about our classifier scores in IDPA. It is more fun to beat people with a speedloader gun. Many people think they aren't competitive. I think they are. My goal is to beat everbodys butt, not just the other revolvers. Yes 32 round field courses are a blast until you do a few standing reloads because the course was designed only for HiCaps. Flexmoney, That IS a lot of Glocks. However they hadn't been invented yet during the time I am talking about. In the last few years the arms race has stabilized. Hey, are you 2 guys related???? Bill Nesbitt

John, It's not as important now to have a new gun every year with limited 10 & production but it used to be. I was trying to be competitive in IPSC/USPSA from 1984 until 1992 or so. In 1984 I ordered a Nastoff Comp gun in 45. It was state of the art. Before I received it in 1986 .38 Supers were the gun of choice with the stage designs needing 10 shots per shooting position. I was shooting a 45 with 7 or 8 round mags. Then came the Springfield P-9's that held 18 rounds with round counts per stage going up all the time. Then all the STI/SVI/Caspian's etc that held even more rounds. Then you had to have a scope on your gun too. Then extended mags. Do you see where it was going. Along about then Limited was started to perhaps stop the arms race. That just evolved to where you had to have a .40 HiCap because of the screwy stage designs. A new $3000 gun every year would not make you a better shooter but less than the best equipment would keep you from being on the top. I shoot IDPA now with a Model 10 S&W revolver and kick butt with it. It is my skill that lets me win and I don't need expensive equipment to do it. I don't need excuses and rationalizations now that stage design is better where I shoot. Maybe this should be in with Brian's rant about stage design. ***Rant Mode Off*** Bill Nesbitt

Celebrex, good stuff. I also use Glucosamine & Chondroitin. I think they help. I also get the occasional cortizone shot. My wife & I were both having pain in our elbows after long practice sessions with Major .45's. We both switched to 9mm Minor (we shoot IDPA) and the pain went away. Bill Nesbitt

How can I lurk if you guys keep talking about me? I shot IPSC for years until all the local clubs switched over to IDPA. I like them both. I like that you don't have to be rich to shoot IDPA. When I shot IPSC you needed a new $3000 gun every year. You CAN shoot fast enough to win in IDPA even with misses. I won SSP EXP at the 1999 Nationals with 2 misses. Bill Nesbitt

Flexmoney, If you have a chance to go to the Nationals you should take it for the experience. It's like nothing you can shoot locally. I understand about the principle of it all, but you might not have another chance for a couple years. Bill Nesbitt

OK, If I don't have to do it fast I will be all right. Flexmoney, We will be there. Maybe we will be squaded together. Bill Nesbitt

I just got back from shooting the dot drill for the first time. I sure hope I wasn't supposed to do that fast, I used 3 inch orange squares because I had some. The slow fire group was one hole in the middle of the square. Things went down hill from there. Some shots below the square and several on the lower edge of the square. Not counting strong & weak hand I had 6 shots that were not on the squares. I was using a custom 45, an old 70 series Colt. My main question was about shooting the back stop without using a target, just watching the sights track. Am I supposed to see the sight the entire time it is rising in recoil? I see it as the shot is being fired and when it comes back down in position for the next shot. While the gun is in recoil I see only the top of the slide. What should I see? Bill Nesbitt

I didn't know where to post this, but I really like this forum. Compared to other forums this is like a breath of fresh air. Intelligent people willing to share their knowledge. I have been shooting pistols in competition since 1982. The more I learn the more I realize there is still a lot more to learn. I have been lurking here for a couple months. I'm going back to read old posts and finding much to learn. I mostly shoot IDPA along with an action pistol match once in a while(Where Flexmoney shoots). I shot IPSC until 1997 when all the local clubs switched to IDPA. IDPA is not that much different than IPSC in that shooting is still shooting, so I can learn a lot here. I will be lurking here and maybe I might even post from time to time. I think I will go out and shoot into the backstop without a target. Bill Nesbitt

Jon, I shoot lead through my G22 at 148 - 150 p/f in production, and there is some lead build up but clean it after every 100 rnds or so to be on the safe side. I have tried some major loads at around 172 p/f using 200 grn Teflon coated lead(sorry Kyle forgot to mention that before!) with good results and minimal leading. I would only use teflon coated lead if I shot major reguarly (Jacketed not an option here In Oz at approx $35 per 100) Rgds Bill