Alan Adamson

Yes, we know there is no such thing. This gun was at the Springfield Armory Custom shop booth at the Shot show this year. It is not an XD tactical slide btw, I did some checking the XD tactical slide doesn't look anything like an XDM slide and it can't be modified to look that way either, the profile is *way* different. So it looks like SA had/has some 5" XDM Tactical slides that they use inhouse. Also, I believe the safeties are different enough that an XD slide wouldn't work on an XDM frame. However, that is an "M" on the slide, it's a 9mm Major for Open class, on a 5" (maybe 5.5") barrel (not counting comp). I don't know of any 170mm magazines tho, but in a 140, you'd have approx 24-25 reloadable (you can get 21 in a 40 mag with Rich's extension just fine, and so I'm guessing a bit on the 9mm as I have no knowledge. Either way, a very cool gun for the XD nuts around (count me in). Alan

Ya notice a couple of things from that picture..... You can't get the parts to make that gun. a) they don't make a tactical (5" barrel) in the XDm yet. Alan Looks like a slide from a regular XD with an XDM frame. If you look at the slide markings, it just says XD9 and Tactical, but it's been machined to an XDM slide profile. Perhaps my eyes are playing tricks on me, but it looks like it has an M (superscripted) right above the XD... Course, you could correct... Anyone know if an XD slide will fit an XDM? I didn't think there were the same , but not 100% sure.... Alan

Ya notice a couple of things from that picture..... You can't get the parts to make that gun. a) they don't make a tactical (5" barrel) in the XDm yet. Alan

Hey, I have that gun! ... Rich did an awesome job and it shoots great. Just working up a load for it now. I've found that the OAL for max chamber size won't fit the magazine, so max magazine length OAL is 1.148. At that length, grouping is still good, it leave a little more than standard OAL and I'm working with N320 to find the major pf load... Still got to find a Chrono, but one thing for sure, 4.0gr at 1.125 was awesome! (probably not major tho ). Magazines are easily 21 reloadable (make sure you don't have any glocked cases), with 20 a very simple fall back. This make 21+1 absolutely no problem. Stock magazines with Rich's basepads and grams spring/follower (note, he's about to release an XDM specific version, for now you use the 9mm/11 turn grams version and make one little modification) Now I need to get motivated to send my other XDM to Rich and get him to work his magic on it for production! Alan

Well, darn it, that sucks, I suppose there is some technical reason that suggests that the neoprene makes them easier to grab a hold of or some such... Darn it!

I'm tired of dropping SS or Aluminum (finished - coated/painted/etc) on the concrete floor and beating the crap out of them. If I were to make some soft (neoprene) type bumpers for the bottom of them is that counted in the overall length? In other words, if I have a mag with aluminum base extension that meets the 140mm rule, will an additional 1/4" of neoprene make them illegal? Thanks and just curious, and I did do a search, but didn't stay at a holiday inn last night (actually shot a local match and SUCKED ). Alan

Gary, Thanks for the kind words... I certainly know very little about all of this.... However - don't you love that word If you'll allow.... I do believe this discussion, while it started around FPB's, etc.... Has taken a twist that it may bode well for the BOD's to recognize and remedy. That being the "definition" of a safety, and the application of that definition across all valid divisions. (hope I'm using the right word here?). As a total layperson, it does seem strange that there seems to be opposing documentation around the definition and usage of the term, and the application of it's use. I don't think anyone would argue that if the above were done, and it caused changes, at least, those changes could be well understood as to the source that created them. To use terms like (paraphrasing) "because it's so", "its not really a safety", etc.... Just go to the actual root of the issue as I see it. To look at it another way. The rules as updated, will cause people who removed the FPB to put it back in, a safety mechanism that seems to now be required. Why not just make a simple statement that "any safety mechanism, included originally by the manufacture, by make and model, must be functional" and leave it at that. Altho, that statement will also encourage a brief definition of "what a safety" is. Those 2 things would go along way to put this issue to bed, give those that are seeking understanding the knowledge that they need and it will resolve once and for all the production need for FPB's, mag safety's, etc. Pretty simple approach if you ask me - but like I said, I don't have a dog in this hunt...and I'm not a lawyer by any sense of the imagination, so writing the "most preferred" words may be more difficult that it would appear? Just an observation. Alan

As the new kid on the block, with *no* dog in this hunt... I do feel compelled to offer one comment. While there are obviously strong feelings around various parts of the new proposed (tongue in cheek mind you) Productions rules changes. I do wish to applaud and thank all those on both sides of decision. This conversation could have gone right in the crapper very soon after it's start, but it hasn't. It's been waged pretty professionally, perhaps with some jousting back and forth, but again... Thanks to both sides! I'd like to see the outcome be such that those that have used a gun that has been "previously" allowed under prior rules to continue without significant dollar contribution to make said gun fit the new proposed rules. I don't know if that will happen however. With that said... Joust on, I'll set back with more popcorn. Alan

The Gizmo another option. From the creator... Just in case anyone is curious... This would completely resize the case, however, the casepro still would do the extractor groove which none of these solutions will. Alan

Found em... and I suppose the guys with them may hate me, but if you are looking, I think the guys at henningshootsguns.com have 4 or 5... (edit now 2 or 3 I just ordered one and talked to them to verify availability. Anyway, if looking for a egw U die, there are a *few* in circulation ps. Also "franksremote" on these forums may have a couple, he was going to check and in the interim, I found one. I've not heard back from him if he has them. So be advised. Thanks all! Alan

Thanks all.... Guess I'm stuck, there are none to be had for many months in the future... Anyone got one they want to part with in 40 S&W? I'm in need... Thanks. I called both Lee and EGW and got the same story... Alan

Curious. I know that EGW uses the Lee die in their U die. But do they do anything different to them? If I were able to get one direct from Lee, is it the same? Alan

who's molys are you using? Or maybe better, for 40, who are the main guys making molys? I've got a pretty good list of plateds, or jacketeds, but not sure who's how in moly ville Thanks in advance, Alan

Thanks much for the confirmation. I loaded a 100 yesterday at the 4.0gr mark and adjusted the seating die for a nice round number of 1.145 ... Left everything else the same. Shot our Wed night match last night that way. Im really liking this setup. Just to make sure as I knew I didn't know the PF... I shot production. At 4.0gr at 1.145 in an XDM it fed and cycled just fine. If I can go down to 3.5 and it still cycle, that would be a perfect production load I'm sure. Maybe I could even compete against those darn 9mm guys in production . I'm really looking for 2 loads, an nice flat, soft production load in minor and a major load for limited. Some have suggested that you can leave the powder the same and just change the bullet to 155gr... I'll work up both combinations I suppose. Thanks again! Alan

Ok, so I finally tracked down contact info for Mike and the infamous CasePro 100. Seems he left it to his kids to run and they lost interest. However, he's picked it back up, ordered the parts to start manufacturing and seems very interested is supporting the need. Don't bother emailing Crystal, or calling the phone number, both are defunct now. The website is sorely out of date as well. I'm working to confirm current pricing and approximate availability. I certainly don't want to play middle man, however, I did tell Mike that I would gauge new interest. So, given the market for New Ammo, and the need for this device, especially as it relates to "guppied" cases...I'll start an interest list and maintain it. At some point, those interested will be contacted to determine interest in placing a firm order, that order will happen between whomever and Mike... I'm just facilitating. So, if you are seriously interested, you can go to www.casepro100.com and see what the last pricing was, as soon as I hear from Mike, I'll provide current pricing and hopefully availablity. In the interim and because they are going to have limited availability, please send me your name, contact info, and best form of contact. I'll keep an ordered list and attempt to keep you all up to date as the process starts/continues. Best email for me is adamson (underscore) alan at hotmail dot com (hope you can decipher that version appropriately). Thanks and just wanted to let everyone know. Alan

yea, a dillon super swager works just fine. Alan

As a follow up. First, the 1.125, 4gr N320, with a Rainier 180 Plated FP worked just fine, no signs of over pressure, were significantly less recoil than the factory stuff I was shoot (shot back to back to compare).. In fact, I had a couple of primers where there was some debris that was on the seat when the primer was put in, this debris left some little marks and even those weren't flattened on these 4.0gr at 1.125 in an XDM 40. Also, shot a couple of the loaded long (1.15), same charge, same bullet. I sent 3 of them down the magazine with some other factory stuff just to make sure they would traverse the mag without issue and so far so good. Now I need to find/beg/borrow/buy a chrono and get some serious testing in... Just figured I'd share what I found, at least for the XDM 40, N320 is just fine in the portions I've listed above. However I have no idea if they were minor or major PF...But at least I have a starting point. Alan

Ok, so I've found a sticking point with how to use a case gauge that I can't seem to answer from the instructions. On the .223 gauge, it says to check the size by using the gauge with the brass inserted and then having it be between the low cut and high cut. Ok, that make sense. But then to check case length, it say to put the brass in the gauge, turn the gauge over on a flat surface and use the low cut/high cut on the length side.... OK, but what if the size allows the case to fall into the gauge between the 2 steps on the size side? Do you take the size side into account when you measure length or not? In other words, would you put the brass in the gauge, hold it up against the shoulder and then use the length side of the gauge, or not worry about whether the brass is up against the shoulder when you measure lenght? Alan

Ok, so I worked up some measurements on an XDM 40. Here's what I found. a) chamber length doesn't seem to be an issue... With Plated TC 180gr bullets, I can make a 1.186 not hit the lands, but still bottom the case out. Any more is probably too long - but it's a mute point because that won't fit the magazine. On the magazine, I had to go to down 1.152 to make it so that just loading up a magazine and pushing out the bullets with my finger, didn't cause one to stick. Anything longer (tried a 1.158) and it would stick. so, I guess I've figured out some of the magic for this gun... More later. Alan

Thanks so much for the info... Yes, I knew most of what you mentioned, but got concerned when I saw a couple of posts that suggested any N320 with an OAL or 1.125 should be avoided at all costs. And then others where they were at 4+gr's, but with oals that started well beyond 1.125. I think I'll try these, but will also figure out the max oal for chamber and magazine to have that information. Thanks again all. Alan

being the new kid on the block, I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment... However, I've done enough target shooting (NRA style), that it's every bit as good as some of the "target" guns I've shot. To be quite honest, I was pretty shocked at how good it is. I don't have the double tap thing down yet, but there is no doubt the gun is *way* better than I am... One thing tho, after shooting lots of 1911's, the trigger quite frankly SUCKS!... but that's about to be remedied... Rich at Canyon Creek is fixing me up ... beyond that, it's a very nice gun in 40 SW... and lost of production guys love it in 9mm. While the 40 is 16+1 from the factory, a new follower and spring and extended magazine remedies that to 21+1.... Just right for limited ... Alan

Just saw that the board rulings are out... in the members area of the uspsa site. dunno if it was finalized or just put out for comments... appears most will be happy... Alan

Good info, I think I'll work on my plan a little... I can always seat the non-crimped back a little further until I can figure out the "lands length" question. The mags are different in the xdm vs the xd, but the priciple is the same - you want whatever length to feed 100% Thanks, this give me something to work with... I don't think I can cram all of this into the time I have before a match this weekend. so if I shot that it will be with factory ammo which I know works just fine ... Thanks all. Alan

unfortunately no to both... I've read that the mag will only allow to about 1.135... looking at it with a set of calipers with a 1.130 (some factory Georgia Arms 180gr TC) bullets in it, there is very little space available between the tip of the bullet and the front of the magazine, when pressing down slightly on the bullets/follower - eyeball says something like 1/64 - may 1/32, but it all depends on what angle the bullets are when the magazine is seated in the gun. Darn, why does this all have to be so difficult... I suppose that's the black magic, voodoo, whatever you want to call it around developing loads for particular guns... With basically no crimp, I suppose I can always load long say to 1.15 or so and come down in .05 increments and see what feeds... Course all of this says that I'm not hitting the lands at that length. Only way to tell that is to set some long, and drop them in... So what if I do the following. a) take a brass and put primer, powder into it... I'll stay at the 4.0gr of N320 for now. seat a bullet to 1.2 (a good long one) and don't crimp it c) drop it into the gun and compare it to a regular 1.125-1.135 round to see if I'm hitting the lands. If so, repeat from with a slightly shorter crimp until I find where I'm not raising the round off the lands, then how much additional? Second, once that length is determined, load up a handful and see if they will fit the magazine, if so, then I suppose I need to crimp these and go shoot them to make sure they feed and if not, go back to above and shorten them. perhaps this is the only way to figure out some of these things on the XDM... Is my process correct? Alan

As a point of reference see my original post http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80577 Am I making a mistake to even try these? Gun - 4.5" barrel SA XDM 40 OAL - which I forgot on the original post 1.125 (at the time I loaded them was was provided as a SAAMI length, which I've since seen referenced as 1.125 - 1.135) Crimp - basically none, I just took off the slight bell that I had from the powder funnel. probably something like .420-.421 now. I loaded about 10 +/- with 180 Plated Rainier 180 TC bullets (basically a Lead bullet and was advised to use Lead data). My rational was the Lapua website where it lists a 180 LTC (Lead Truncated Cone) with N320 and a range of 3.4 - 4.3 I simply needed a starting point and based upon some other references, this seemed like a good place to start. However, now based upon some further reading on OAL and N320, I'm a little concerned. Anyone care to offer an opinion? It's the OAL that has me concerned, and the nature of this powder... I could switch to TG, but everyone speaks so highly of this powder especially behind a plated bullet, I had some and figured I'd give it a try...but caution and no range time set in, now I don't know what to do... Thanks in advance,