saibot
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Posts posted by saibot
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Since no-one has bothered to answer your question...
WSP gave me about 30 fps more velocity than CCI in my 9mm minor load:
147 MG over WSF with WSP at a PF of 132.
147 MG over WSF with CCI at a PF of 128.
Thanks for the info!
This is just what I was looking for.
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Ya I realize it's darn low but there is something about that exact load that is super consistent. Like an OCW load. Any more/less and the ES/SD is substantially higher.
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Experts-
I'm in a middle of a run of 9mm (MG 124HP, 4.1 Solo1000) and have been using Winchester small pistol primers and getting very consistent cartridges (little over 126 PF out of my M&P FS9). I didn't realize that I'm low on my Winchester primers and will be switching to my stash of CCI primers. How will, if at all, this affect my FPS? Have any of you noticed a measurable change between the two? I know I should chrono them to verify but I just don't have time (...and I'm lazy) to measure them. Since I'm on the hairy edge of acceptable PF I'd hate to drop below with the new rounds.
Many thanks!
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Just to add my 2 cents, I crimp everything. If an autoloader slams a round into battery and the bullet gets pushed into the case, you're increasing pressure which will at best change the POI from shot to shot. Worst case scenario the pressure is too high causing something to give. I also crimp my precision rounds for my bolt gun because of the increase and consistency of bullet drag. This increases the start pressure and improves accuracy from shot to shot according to Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading" (page 57). And finally, at the volume we're producing ammunition we're most likely using a progressive press which means other than the initial setup, there is no extra effort to add a crimp so why not improve safety and accuracy and just add the die to your toolhead?
And for what's it's worth, I'm a big fan of the Lee Factory Crimp die. Depending on what I'm loading for I have dies from Dillon, Lee, and RCBS but always finish off with a LFCD.
/off soapbox
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I stopped chamfering/deburring .223/5.56 brass. I noticed no difference doing what I do. It pretty much happens by my loading process anyway.
With once fired brass I:
1. Tumble it clean then lube and pour into my 650's case feeder
2. With my toolhead that only has my small base sizer in it I pull the leaver until they've all had a visit through and land into the bin
3. I trim and swage
4. Then it all goes back into the tumbler. This step does a great job of getting the freshly trimmed cases to an acceptable level and helps clean the primer pocket that was exposed last trip through the tumbler
5. Lightly lube and dump back into the casefeeder, this time the press has my full toolhead in it with an RCBS smallbase X die. I like this die because it's mandrel seems to knock out any burrs that might still be left and although the primer is already gone, the decapping pin knocks out any tumbling media that might be in the flash hole.
6. Reload....
For me this has worked great (especially now that I have my headspace issue fixed) and saved me quite a bit of time. I shoot Practial Rifle and a little 3 gun with this ammo and with the cheap 55 grain Montana Gold bullets it hits whatever I point it at out to 300. I have a little trouble after that but is probably just me since I don't shoot with any magnification and my EOTech's dot is larger than some of the targets, so who knows maybe I could get a little more out of it?
If I need anything more accurate it doesn't get loaded on a progressive press (I switch to my Lee single stage press for my .308) as I just can't get the consistency required for that type of shooting.
Anyway, probably not the perfect way, but for what I do it's the best way for what I do given the labor/performance trade offs.
/2 cents
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Well I made the changes you guys suggested; extended the resizing die, and adjusted the seating die so it doesn't do any crimping and so far that seems to have done it. I pressed out ~80 cartridges and randomly selected ~10 which all dropped deeper into the case gauge and I put each of the 10 into the rifle, released the bolt and each one ejected effortlessly with the charging handle. I'll take them all out to the range tomorrow and try them all without fear of an AD in my garage.
Just wanted to follow up and say thanks for all of the expert assistance!!!! It is very much appreciated!!
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OK, I was able to screw down the sizing die a little more and it's touching the shell plate now. Can that damage the plate or press on a Dillon 650? A couple of test cases do go a little deeper into the case gauge, so maybe that will be enough. I'm also going to back out the seating die then make some test rounds and see how it goes then report back. Thanks all!
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It sounds like your sizing die is not set correctly. A sized case must fit all the way into the case gauge (wipe any lube off first). This means below the top step and above the lower step. What you are describing thus far is a case that will not headspace correctly.
If not sized completely, the shoulders aren't being bumped back far enough and thus cases may not chamber.
It's not a small base die selection issue...it's a setting issue.
towdownzero-
Do you think I'm resizing too much? I can't go any further as the die already touches the shell plate on my 650. Incompatible die with this system?
Thanks!
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This is why I don't like the seating/crimping combo dies....too much going on. Redding competition seating die and taper crimp die and you're set.
You want to be really careful about banging the butt of an AR on anything when it's loaded. The firing pin can make contact with the primer in a loaded cartridge that way. It would take one heck of a whack to make it go bang, but it still gives me the willies
G-ManBart-
Oh believe me, it gives me and everyone around me the willies! Any suggestions on getting them out other than slamming the buttstock?
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Are you trying to crimp and seat in a single die ? This generally doesnt work, if the dies arnt exactly right you can have sholder problems, Picture this the bullet is crimped early but the seater is still pushing down causeing the shoulders to bulge or be set back slightly, back your crimp die all the way out and only seat, then crimp in a separate stage .
Joe4d-
That is an outstanding suggestion! I am using separate dies (Lee seating die/ Lee factory crimp die) but I know you can use the seating die to taper crimp as well as seat and maybe it is doing that. I can try backing it out of the tool head and screwing down the seating adjustment to compensate. That should have the desired effect, right?
Thanks again!!!
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is your over all length too long ? Try seating the bullet deeper
Joe4d-
I typically seated to 2.2530, but have tried a little shorter and didn't notice a difference. When I do manage to get the cartridge out I don't see any evidence of the bullet contacting the lands. I could really mash them in there and try to see if it makes a difference, but given that the case stands high in the case gauge (the bullet just sticks out of the end and touches nothing) I'm thinking it's some kind of case deformity. Just don't know where...
Strange, eh?
Thanks!
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Did you read the instructions?
Are the necks too long?
(Doesn't the brass need to be trimmed to a certain length first before you use the X die?)
Cas-
Yes I trimmed as outlined in the instructions for the X die. Cases trimmed to 1.6800 and don't extend out of the case gauge.
Thanks
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Experts-
I have a problem that I just can't figure out. I've been handloading for my (and a friend's) AR and having a very hard time extracting a cartridge once in battery, specifically if I DON'T fire it. I have to pull on the charging handle while slamming the butt against something to break it loose. I thought maybe the Lee full length/decapping die (and a RCBS X die) was sizing the base enough so I got a RCBS small base X die which has made no difference at all. I have a Dillon .223 case gauge and when I drop a cartridge into it, it sits just a little higher than the top edge. If I take a case that drops deep into the case gauge and resize it, it no longer drops all the way in and now sits a little higher than the top edge. What the heck is going on? Do the RCBS X dies do something bad to the shoulder of the cases? Per the instructions I have mandrel up and out of the way for the first use and have the die just touching the shell plate.
Just FYI, PMC/LC/Remington brass, Montana Gold 55g, 24.3 grains of A2230. Rock River Arms and S&W M&P AR15s.
Anyone have any ideas?
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I use these exclusively for my .223/5.56 handloads for my AR. They always go bang.
I had a hard time finding them where I live and I paid too much when I had the chance.
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Hi experts! I've been working up a load with MT 55 bullets and about 25 grains of A2230 which is shooting very well with my once fired LC brass. I have quite a bit of PMC .223 brass that I was wondering if I can use as well. Will it work with the same charge or will the pressure be too high?
From what little I know, that seems pretty much at the upper limit. What kind of velocity are you getting with that load?
GrahamSmith-
I'm still working out the exact charge on the LC brass. I've been working up in small steps and see no signs of pressure up to 24.5. I haven't worked up any past that yet since I was waiting on my swagger to arrive (reaming wasn't working out for me), but now it's here and I was going to continue to work up to the max load and see which worked out best. I haven't chrono'd anything yet. Once I have a few through at the higher end and see no pressure issues I'll work up a small batch of the favorites and chrono those. So far it's been a great combination from 23.5 to 24.5. I'm shocked at how much better they are than factory!
Is .223 brass inherently weaker than 5.56 brass? Does it even matter?
Thanks again for the help!
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Hi experts! I've been working up a load with MT 55 bullets and about 25 grains of A2230 which is shooting very well with my once fired LC brass. I have quite a bit of PMC .223 brass that I was wondering if I can use as well. Will it work with the same charge or will the pressure be too high?
Thanks!
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I ran into some of this stuff (at least I'm pretty sure that was it) sometimes because it gets mixed in with my brass at the range. My RCBS die just bottoms out at the flash hole because it's way too big. My Lee die, as you pointed out already, has a smaller pin which works most of the time. Once however it did decap one of them, then on the upstroke the fit was so tight that it actually pulled the decapping pin out of the die, leaving it stuck in the case and therefore stuck in the press. It took me a few minutes to figure out what was going on and why the case wouldn't move. It was pretty tough to get it out, too. Maybe just a fluke, but I'd thought I'd mention it just in case your case mysteriously doesn't want to move anymore.
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I'm in the same boat as you. They drop right into the Dillon case gauge but stick in the chamber. For me it was my sizing die not sizing enough. I moved it down and one of my dies works and the other does not. If I had it to do over again I'd get the small base die.
Reloading...the learning curve is steeeeeep!
Good luck!
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I've been experimenting with this on my single stage press and found some interesting results. I usually leave just a hair between the die and the shell plate to eliminate the possibility of the die canting the shell plate causing it to affect the settings of the other stations. So with the "hair" amount of space both my RCBS full length X-sizer die and my Lee full length Pacesetter die both have the problem of being too large for my chamber. If I go all the way down and actually touch the shell plate the Lee die produces brass that fits in my chamber but still no dice with the RCBS. I did email RCBS' customer service about it and never heard anything back. Strike two for RCBS.
I have a RRA that may be a little tighter, so I'm going to see if these chamber on different upper because I'm curious.
Thanks again all for your assistance!
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I don't use my super swage as the primer pockets seem to get loose after three or four firings....
Just let me know if you need me to take it off of your hands!
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I used to load 9mm for my M&P on a LEE and when I went past 1.139ish I noticed that when a new cartridge was stripped from the magazine and pushed into battery that the bullet would start to engage the rifling. The problem with that, at least for me, is that when I "unload and show clear" the cartridge would occasionally separate leaving the bullet in the barrel. Seating the bullet at 1.135 and adding a little more crimp has fixed this for me. Probably just my load/gear/gun but thought it was worth mentioning. YMMV.
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Thanks for the quick replies!!
Looks like I need to buy a larger bar.
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Experts-
I just switched my 650 to 223 from 9mm and I'm trying to charge my cases and can't get the powder measure to deliver more than 22.6 grains of A2230. I have the adjuster screw as far as it'll go and that's the most it'll put out. Do I need a different powder measure for rifle?
Help!
Thanks!
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Well, it sizes the brass to the smaller side of the SAMMI spec and they generally go further down on than a regular die. Case in point, when I first started reloading .223, I had a Colt HBAR with a 5.56 chamber and a SBR with a Wylde chamber. Brass that came out of the Colt, would not fit after reloading in the Wylde chambered SBR, but fit/functioned fine back in the Colt. After talking to my reloading mentors about the issue, he suggested using the Redding small base die and sure enough that solved the problem.
Unrelated anecdote, after using Ned Christenson's 5.56 chamber reamer on the Wylde chamber of the SBR I was able to use brass from just about any source after that.
Thanks, Kelly! Looks like I ordered the wrong die.
I took some of the cases that I resized and put them in my case gauge and the dropped right in, but when I put them in my RRA it took everything I had to get them to eject. Such a bummer since I just bought the die and I'm sure Midway doesn't take back used gear.
Now I need to figure out if my chrome lined RRA barrel is NATO or Wylde. It isn't obvious from their site.
Thanks again for the great info!
DPMS Panter 3G1
in Rifle - Technical
Posted
I've been looking to get a new rifle and hadn't even considered the DPMS until I saw the Frontsight article. After a little google'ing for reviews and reading this post I thought I'd give it shot and ordered one from Nelson yesterday. I also ordered a Trijicon TR24 (red triangle) and a LaRue mount for it.
Now I feel like a kid at Christmas and I can't wait to get my paws on it and see how it does for me!
Pics when I get it...