Paul Sharp

"My point exactly. Jerry gets paid to shoot, gets his ammo paid for, etc. So did Ed McGivern." Not really my point though. Jerry might get paid to shoot, now, but he had to get to that level first, than came the sponsorships. Its like that in any sport. Matt Burkett mentioned in an article that he had hardly any money for ammo when he started so most of his success was built on a consistent dry practice routine. D.R. Middlebrooks has told me the same thing. Almost every shooter I know has relayed the same type of story. No ammo and no money for ammo in the beginning, they get to a certain level and eventually get some sort of sponsorship. In every case though, the skill came first, then the sponsorship. To me, thats just an excuse and a poor one at that. It really only serves to discredit a superior athlete. It like saying, "the only reason he is a better shooter than me is because he is sponsored". A) Its an ego based statement that detracts from the true meaing and benefit of competition. Its a cop-out. My answer to those types of statements is always, less television or whatever distraction, and more training.

"Titles or classifications mean squat." True enough although they do provide some form of validation. The motivation of any competitor is constant improvement. Competition provides the measuring stick. At the last Straight Blast Gym camp in Portland my coach gave a great presentation on competition and the mindset of a competitor. One of the traps that Matt mentioned athletes falling into is constantly comparing themselves to other athletes. He talked about how guy's get hung up on who they tapped or knocked out, and how that is a dead end street. One, it doesn't mean anything because if you train often enough and with good athletes you will get caught, and Two, you don't know whats been going on in that guy's life. Maybe he just came back from a 6 month layoff due to an injury or maybe he just found out his wife is leaving him and his head is a thousand miles away. Getting hung up on the whole win/loss thing really is pointless when you look at it from that point of view. I go out and do the best I can do in that moment, beyond that I have no control over what kind of day my opponent is having, what injuries he has or I have or any other elements of the "X" factor. One moment in time, meaningless over all. Once I grasped that concept my ability as an athlete improved enormously. "Sure, but do you understand WHY you enjoy them, as vs just shooting bullseyes" Yes, I do understand, to a degree, why I enjoy them. Personality type. I'm competitive and enjoy challenges. By the way, there is no "vs" for me, its all shooting.

"Can anyone throw in some advise, or help on this?" I look at shooting various weapons as a challenge. Its simply a mechanical device that I can shoot at a high level of skill if I persist. Sometimes I enjoy shooting various weapons just to avoid burn-out. Simply switching between the Beretta and the Para when you start to get the "don't feel like it" feeling might help you to keep at it as the the platform has changed enough to spark your interest. You mentioned something to the effect of not wanting to sacrifice your ranking by switching...., you're a Musashi fan so you know what I'm going to say now. Thats your ego screaming for a spanking. To quote Don Henley, "pull out your inner child and kick his a**". Think of the confidence and all 'round warm fuzzy's you'll have once you suck it up and shoot the Para until you make Master. Master with two different weapons is a pretty cool feat. The flip side is found in what TDean alluded to, beware of the man with one gun. As performance based shooters we spend a lot of time developing the all-important index. It takes some work to get there with one gun, thats why some guy's shoot the 1911 type like crazy than switch to something else and you see them take that extra moment to find the sights, their index is all screwed up. I say, give it a hard run. Whats the down side, nothing that I can see. You never know, you could be one of those Jerry Miculek type guys That guy is a serious threat in any competition with any weapon he chooses. If he showed up at a High Power Rifle shoot with a wrist rocket I still wouldn't count him out. That guy is freakin' inspirational. Thats just me, I would look at it as a challenge. Then again, when I was kid, me and my brother were so competitive we once stayed in the car after driving to my grandmothers house for a X-mas dinner to settle once and for all who could really roll the windows down and back up the fastest in my moms '80 Ford LTD. We actually missed dinner and only stopped because they threatened to give our presents to our cousins.

Ron, I'm no computer whiz so I had the guy that does my web site check it out. The final one I received came through hotmail as well and originated in a bogus yahoo account. After some thought I think the best way to handle this would be the normal treatment you would give a coward. Nothing, just ignore 'em. They have nothing better to do than stir trouble from behind the lines. As near as my bud could tell, my anonymous love letter originated in Oregon. He probably could have dug deeper but like he said, at a point its like chasing down everyone that flips you off in traffic. You just end up off track, spending time and gas money and they won't get out of the car to take their beating anyway so why bother. Sorry it happened to you as well. Wouldn't it be cool if it was the same guy. We could road trip out there and take turns handing him his paper when he comes out to pick it up off the front porch in the morning. I could do it on Monday morning and then you could do it on the following Tuesday, you know, right when he starts to think it was just some nut. Imagine his call to 911, "the paper boy just beat the dog out of me...., again"

Travis, Thanks for your thoughts on this, Brian just started a thread on conditioned flinch with a post that really makes you, (at least me ) think. Man, we seriously drifted this thread.

That topic would indeed be/is huge. Will it be a chapter in the new book? I understand what you are talking about, particularly the gut-check ride. It seems you accepted the circumstances and worked with it after realizing working against it was counter-productive. In that case, you experienced literal moving meditation. I have experienced a similar sensation during a full contact stick fight. Strange how extremely uncomfortable situations (how's that for understatement), bring about this state. I'm still working this one out and it seems this will be a lifetime endeavor. I think a mental barrier might be the association of aggression with tension. Maybe the objective is relaxed aggression. Acceptance of the "natural" response, now relax through it rather than work through it. Definitely lots to think about. Thanks for your thoughts.

Definitely check out of the above and also check out the drills section of the forum. Particularly Patrick Sweeney's thread on shotgun drills. I've been doing that one with shotgun, handgun and rifle. Great exercise for follow-through and transitions, all rolled into one. Have a good one.

Flex, Now I'm all va-klempt! This made my day. Take care.

Bill, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The original post can be found on Brian's main site along with a lot of other great info. I printed the wussification hate post as soon as it posted back than and enlarged it at Kinko's. It hangs on the wall of my gym and serves to give folks a mental gut check. Patrick, I hear ya', my first counter point has always been, "a smooth, sure presentation, accurate fire, while moving will help you in which arena A) A fight Competition shooting or C) BOTH." I like that as well, I'll add that approach, sort of putting the rock back in their pocket. btw, did you get my e-mail? The point of this rant wasn't really the tactical issues, but to point to certain individuals the date of that post, 09/02/00. Seems some would ASSume that I just popped up here and only to promote D.R. One via his e-mail stated that "I" was some sort of alter-ego used by D.R. to stir up discussion to promote him/me, since we are the same?!? Now I'm confused. Anyway, point is simple, I've been here since it started so give me a break with this "lackey" crap. Obviously, this is pointless, which is one more reason to hate it.

Heres a little something I thought I would share, than I'll get to my real rant 'cause it will start me on the road to feelin' better....This is something I posted on Brian's original message board..., for those that I will address in a moment..., note the date. You can also find this if you scroll down on the Hate page on the main brianenos.com site. "I Hate hearing the word "Tactics" used in Competiton 09/02/00 I'm a LEO and I shoot in competitions. I hate hearing how I will suck at tactics and maybe even get myself killed just because I like to test my skills in competition. The most frequent comment I hear is, "Your tactics are sound, for now, but if you keep shooting in these competitions your tactical skills will decline". That is just one area I get grief about, even though I always ace any "tactical" shoot house or building clearing training drills. Lets not even get me started about the constant, "You'll never be able to reach your full shooting potential if you keep shooting that weird looking Isosceles, its not even a true Isosceles, your elbows are bent." Than after I shoot they always qualify their remarks with "Well if you would shoot a proper Weaver think of how good you would be." Dude, whatever. I really love the "gamesman shoot isosceles, warriors shoot weaver," Mmmmkay, If I'm sucking pavement up my ass while trying to shoot around cover in the middle of a firefight..., I don't think any stance will be relevant, but that’s just the opinion of a lowly gamesman, based on my observations of human behavior during simunitions training. Or how about this, "Why did you not do a tac load there son? We do not do speed loads here, that is "tactically" unsound." I'm sorry, I thought tactically unsound would be not having a topped off gun, topped off as quickly as possible I might add. This isn't a battlefield or theatre of war, a tac load is useless in the middle of a gun fight. Why do I need to pocket a mag with 1,2 or 3 rounds left in it? Rip that sucker out of there and stuff another one in. Did I mention I completed the "Combat Challenge" course of fire, at this LEO tactical training center where all the above conversations occurred, in record time with one of the best scores ever? Guess that doesn't count since I didn't do tac loads or shoot "The Weaver." Alright, I'm going to go meditate and chill. Boy do I feel better. From Paul Sharp Comment: Thank you Paul! The situation you described is pathetic. It's just a weak ego's attempt to feel superior. If you want advice, I'm sure you know how to ask for it. It's not how you do it—it's what you do that matters. Who would you NOT want shooting at you, Rob Leatham, or some guy who TALKS about what tactics and techniques YOU should be using? At each moment in life, your task, should you choose to accept it, is to do exactly what needs to be done. It's just that there are some who know that, and some who don't. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I Hate Hearing Shooters Putting Down Other Shooting Sports 08/28/00" Now, for what I hate! People that e-mail, routing the mail through a bazillion places so I have no idea who you are, (for now), calling me a "LACKEY", "a_-hole" and "LIAR", telling me that I should leave this forum since I've "never posted here before this shameless attempt at touting someones wares", and "they've never even seen a post from me unless its to promote this hucksters wares" and accusing me of intruding into "their" forum, Check the date dude! 09/02/00 for crying out loud, when did you become a member here? Exactly so shut the f* up! I didn't just pop up here yesterday! What I hate more than all of that is reading something from some nameless coward telling me that they will "shut me up and run me off with my tail between my legs" and how they "can't wait to run into me so they can run over me"....thats cool with me dude. If you really are that motivated, I'm easy to find. Wait, what I hate more than that is this, how did I get sucked into this? I train, I ask questions about training, I offer my opinion on training or my training experience, I don't discuss personalities, rumors or someones personal life with anyone. If I do discuss those issues it will be with you and no one else and we will be discussing A) Me or You, since we are the only ones present. And the express purpose of that conversation would be to foster growth in one of us, not to tear one of us down. What I hate more than all of this is how pissed I am right now, this is ridiculous. Now I understand why EL stays away from the net, nameless cowards that incite you to the point of beating someones ass. Alright, I feel a little better now..... (Edited because...) (Edited by Paul Sharp at 8:21 am on Dec. 6, 2002)

"But we don’t have to compromise and "embrace" antagonistic tension. We have complete control over the manner in which the subconscious acts/reacts." Travis, I would have agreed at one time but after reading the material put out by Tony Blauer, Geoff Thompson and other self-defense type trainers on the Flinch response, I'm not so sure. Their contention is that the Flinch response is programmed into us to a point we can't really train it out. Although we can incorporate this flinch into our response. "Only if they're programmed to." Agreed, but, again we see examples of the top guy's training themselves and others to shoot with an erect type posture, yet doing something different when its time to turn it up. How would you suggest one go about attaining complete control over how the subconcious acts/reacts? I know how I do it with the guy's in my gym that close their eyes or snap their head back when they get hit.

"How's that Bone feel?" "FC- Keep droppin’ them bones on ‘em!" We are talking about training...., right?

It would seem that the key to point shooting is the process of building a dead on index. I think it was Robbie that said "my index aims the gun", I've heard some fantastic skeet and trap shooters say something similar, in their case they were saying the cheek weld aims the gun, IIRC. "It used to be that my sight were everything. Now they just confirm my index on closer shots." Awesome point! (no pun intended) Ron Avery says something similar in his classes when he talks about the S.A.F.E. drills. With enough time on building your index the sights should be aligned practically from the holster, your eye just validates this if needed. D.R. teaches a system built on your index. You build your ability to index the pistol by feel first than learn how to use the sights. I like the term "indexed shooting" over point shooting for the reason some have stated here. It conjures images of the Hoover era FBI guys shooting from the hip. When I point shoot, I'm allowing the index to point the pistol. For me its simple enough, if I had to put numbers on it I would say, 0-5 yards Index is enough for accurate hits, 5-10 yards looking through the sights is enough for acurate hits, after 10 yards I really need to stay on the sights. I'm sure with more time and effort in building my index I can extend those ranges but for now the limits of my ability.

So, the consensus would be, only the mag that is in weapon is actually on the weapon. Reload from the belt is prefered? I'm wondering about this as well as I start putting my gear together.

Is it just me or does that picture of the Burner with all that brass in the air make you want to go shoot! (is it wrong?)

To a performance oriented shooter, which is what I consider myself or at least what I am attempting to be, you have to see what you need to see to make the shot. Here comes some more thread drift. The issue of IDPA or IPSC is moot and counter productive. Ultimately this is all about performance, can you shoot regardless of the arena? For the sake of useless knowledge and those that play trivial pursuit..., the word competition comes from the late latin competre, meaning to strive together. The true meaning of competition, in this case shooting, is to work together to improve one another. So, regardless of the venue, I will learn. Case in point, all the top shooters teach something similar to this; See what you need to see to make the shot. That might involve the sights, than again, it might not. The sight picture you need is subjective to the distance to the target. btw, D.R. has disciples?! I got into this for the potential harem. Harems are cool, a bunch of guy's following me around, not cool. Lunch is over, back to the mine.

"Seems like we are all on the same page with the chin up thing? --------------- The gun position may be a body-type thing? I know that I don't shoot with my arms highier than parallel. If I raise them highier, I lose leverage on the gun." Definitely on the same page. I don't want my arms above parallel either for the same reason. We have kind of moved into the tension aspect and its affect on our shooting and that to me is the key issue in this discussion. It seems the head/shoulders move as an unconcious response to; A) The need for speed anxiety/nerves/fear The reason I have been thinking about this a lot lately, is I kept noticing the same thing in most of the top shooters that many here have noted, that and a comment I'll share later and I really had some things to think about. Couple that with attending two classes where the instructors would "test" the shooting platform of the guys by smacking, rapidly the hands of the shooters after they had presented an empty weapon, this was done to see if they would move backwards as a result of the smack. If they didn't move the instructors hypothesis was/is their platform is sound for high speed, reactive type shooting. Without a forward lean and forward pressure guy's would go back on their heels and the arms would go up above parallel. I realized this might be something worth looking into. I had a conversation with an instructor that sparked a lot of this thought process for me. He has taken many classes with one of the guy's mentioned in this thread, his words to me were, "tension is going to happen, so rather than fight it, embrace it and make it work for you" Which brings me back to this, if under tension/stress I will unconciously move into this posture, why not start there and learn to operate at an optimal level while there? Sort of embracing it rather than fighting it. "So, what am I missing and what's new? Is this thread really nothing more than an exercise in clarifying terminology?" I don't think so..., what exactly do you mean by that? Honestly, if we were in the same room, Detlef, Flex or someone could standup and say, "this is what I mean" and assume the position, than everyone else would say "thats what I was talking about, except I do this a little different", that would take about 2 minutes, than we could spend the rest of the time working out the tension, natural/un-natural thing that this has morphed into.

Flex, I agree, with training you can make the un seem natural, I think your leading me on with the easy part. I guess what I'm thinking about here is why try to make the un natural? Why not optimize shooting from the position that naturally occurs? It would seem that the time spent trying to un-program the natural would be spent more efficiently channeling the natural response into a trained response...., if that makes sense. I'm tired and got hit a lot tonight. If we take the golf analogy, even though the act of swinging a club isn't a natural everyday movement, there is a way to swing the club that takes advantage of the bodies natural motions. Rather than swing in a way that causes the body to fight against itself. As Brian said, one can flounder for years, particularly if the athlete is moving in a way that is not kinetically sound. Ron, You are the official TDMF! Brian, A smoker is a warmup fight. Its an old school boxing term. They attempt to replicate the conditions of the match, same time, day, and everything. The manager will invite as many people as possible to duplicate crowd noise and such. This way the new guy gets used to fight conditions and how his physiology is going to respond before its the real thing. Interesting story, a friend told me that during his smoker he noticed that he couldn't hear his corner because he kept getting distracted by the other guy's corner. One of the many things one needs to be aware of before getting in there. Thats pretty much it, a replication/simulator type thing. I guess you could call it a dry run...., with bruises. Detlef, Now I see what you are talking about. I think in the picture of me, which was taken over a year ago, the perspective might be a little skewed because the photographer is shorter than me. My left arm is higher than my right arm, that is part of the process of getting my left hand rolled over. I think that makes sense..., like I said I'm a little beat right now. Good point concerning Daniel, (I think I'm doing it too in that pic) having his head tilted down. I know D.R., like a lot of instructors, tells the shooter to point the chin at the target that way your face is erect. Its just too hard to see everything you need to see if you are looking up/through your brow. Just for clarification, when I say head down I'm talking about this, while sitting erect, push your chin forward towards the screen, this will cause your head to come "down" and out in front of your lower body, helping to initiate the forward lean thing. Thats what I mean when I say head down. Is that what you (or anyone else) thought I meant? Or did you think I meant actually having your head "tilted" towards the ground as in looking down?

A good point Brian brought up is, this type of posture occurs "naturally" when shooting a stock type pistola. Having your head up is a necessity I think when shooting an open pistol, because of the optics and the comp takes care of a lot of the recoil management.

"Sweet Jesus girls...what is all the arguing about?" That sounds like a cool band name..... No arguing, just throwing out my thoughts so that others can call me on the B.S. so to speak. Its one of the big draws on this forum, folks here tend to point out an error or short-coming in ones thought process in a logical manner as opposed to some other places.... Honesty, its a good thing, although I really would like to walk around for a week or two as a legend in my own mind. Detlef, Nuances it may be. I'm not sure what type of crouch your thinking of, I'm thinking of the same posture I would use to bring a basketball down court, kind of an athletic type thing. What are you thinking of? You mentioned D.R.'s site, can you snag a pic or point me to one that shows what you are thinking of when you say "extreme crouch". Flex, This is a good point but I'm not sure how one would train to be un-natural, "Maybe the "natural" (possibly ingrained thought or habit) way isn't the best? " Definitely something to think about. "I guess my point is that...even our best shooters...our cream-of-the-crop, they aren't likely getting it perfect. They certainly aren't getting it right all the time. When we watch them, we should realize they are struggling with all this stuff too (to some extent)." Thats a very important point. One of my Jits coaches told me something once that mirrors this, he said that BJJ is like boxes inside of boxes, when you think you have found everything, you find another aspect in your game to improve. Shooting is similar, on the surface all you have to do is put the weapon on target, with sights aligned and don't disturb the alignment as the bullet leaves the muzzle. Obviously we can see it takes a lifetime of effort to perfect this, if "perfection" can ever be attained. Gotta' admit, it sure is fun trying!

Brian, Thanks for taking time to discuss this aspect of shooting. Any insight I can gather from other shooters is greatly appreciated. Again, another indepth post that I will have to print and read several times. I agree, learning is the most important aspect of any competition. Nothing teaches as well as experience. What are your thoughts on this perspective. If under stress of competition one tenses up, thus affecting negatively, to some degree, ones ability to perform, wouldn't it make sense to accept this tension, maybe even foster it while practicing/training for competition so that one can perform optimally while under competition induced stress. Sort of an environmental acclimation process. For boxing, NHB and submission wrestling competitions we use "smokers" to acclimate the guy's to match stress. We attempt to induce as closely as possible the conditions of a match so they get used to performing at the highest possible level in that situation. This is my motivation/thought process' in trying to find the solution in this issue. Accept that this happens, now work with it rather than waste resources fighting it. Detlef, Thanks for posting that picture as it illustrates perfectly my point. The Burner's shoulders and ears are practically on the same plane. That would indicate a head down/shoulders up posture. Which is what I've been talking about.

Brian, First, thanks for the comprehensive post, there is a lot of info there, that is definitely a print and read type post. If I can attempt to give my thoughts on this query, "Are you implying that the man vs man format of that match should influence one's style or shooting position, or, in other words, that one might effectively shoot with a different (head) position if he was shooting single, timed runs on the same course of fire, as opposed to the man vs man format?" If you watch the clips at sportshooter.com of all the big guns shooting, I see a trend. As Flex alluded to, this is something I think the hard working shooter should study, ie; the mannerisms and methods of the top shooters. When watching a clip of you shooting a course that was very aggressive, with close, multiple targets and movement, your body language was very aggressive. I think it was the Winchester event, you were driving the gun into the targets, your shoulders came up, or your head came down, (chicken and egg, as Krishnamurti would say, its really One ) with a forward lean. My point in this is, if the top guy's end up there as a result of their bodies natural reaction to the mind telling them to manage recoil..., shouldn't we just start there? I know Bill Rogers is teaching in this manner and it would seem to be effective. Last week I watched a clip of one of his guy's putting a magazine into a target, with his eyes closed and head turned away from the target, as fast as he could work the trigger, and you could have covered his group with an index card, very impressive. His contention is that this posture "locks" the weapon in. I understand that to a degree this will come down to personality types, Jerry will shoot like that even under the influence of morphine, but it would seem that when a course of fire dictates, fast and furious fire, everyone goes there. I have the tape of Jerry Miculek setting his record, his posture is wrapped around and over the gun, at least that is how it appears to me I realize that is probably not a great word picture, but that was the visual affect that registered with me as he was holding the weapon on target. So, it would seem that the posture does change as the demand for greater recoil management presents itself. Sort of a whole body application of the analogy some use concerning holding the weapon like a hammer, for small nails a light grip will work for driving big nails a stronger grip is needed. For slower paced shooting, less lean, for faster paced shooting, more lean. Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. Its these types of discussions that cause me to elucidate the whys that decide the whats.

Travis, There has been extensive research done on this subject by those at the Olympic village. For a short time, several years ago, most of the work was available on-line. I can't find it now. If someone knows where this material went please let me know. It really was some good stuff. The paper documented the history of the work to actually train for faster eye speed, starting with using hand-ball games with oddly shaped balls, (to bounce unpredictably), up to a head set worn over the eyes that displayed a little red dot that the athlete was to follow with his/her eyes. With the headset they were on to something as the speed of the dots could be slowed or increased, thus providing a form of progressive resistance training. At a shoot-fighting gym I trained in during '95-'96, one of the Japanese fighters had brought one of those headsets over. What a fantastic tool. In the fight game eye/perception speed is king, what you can't see will really mess your day up. Detlef, "*The Jet* has been out of pistol shooting for a few y now... " Kind of an unsportsmanlike thing to say don't you think? His accomplishments still stand and when he left he was a GM....., something I am not so I don't feel liberty to comment on his status as a shooter, other than to say, he obviously could shoot and any film I have seen of him shooting inspires me to train harder. Sort of like saying Gable hasn't wrestled in a few years or Leonard hasn't boxed in a few years...., they still performed at a level I can't duplicate and most others can't either. Thats all I have to say on that issue, thats definitely thread drift. On to head position and its affect on eye speed/perception.

I forgot, my mom told me the 11th commandment is, thou shall not whine! Does this make me an official TDMF?

There are quite a few pictures at jerrybarnhart.com and practicalshootingacad.com if anyone cares to take a look at the actual head position of Ron or Jerry when shooting. Looks like the head is "down" to me. Todd and Doug seem to shoot with the head up at times but the promotional video our training cadre just watched from Blackwater showed Todd shooting from various positions and it seemed his head was "down" when shooting and up when moving. IIRC, Ron's instructions during a class in this area several years ago concerning building your platform, letting your body manage recoil and related matters went something like this. Head in front of shoulders, shoulders in front of hips, hips in front of knees and knees in front of toes, so that you acheive a relaxed, balanced but forward lean, to help you manage recoil without choking the life out of the weapon. This posture is also coached by instructors viewed as experts in other weapon systems as well, ie; rifle, shotgun, subgun, etc. Frank Garcia taught a class in this area approximately 3 weeks ago, I didn't get to attend but a friend did and relayed this info. The basic posture taught was the same as Ron's, (mod iso is mod iso) but one thing that was said was, to help you get into this posture/platform/whatever you want to call it, try pushing your chin into the target, this will cause your head to move out in front of your toes, which will bring everything else into the right plane. Now, for me to do that, requires that I do one of two things, A) bring my shoulders up or my head down, I have to do one of those in order to bring my sights, limited/production gun, into my line of sight. I think the contradiction, if it is that, is guy's teach to shoot one way in a static environment but when the timer beeps and they start working the recoil, shooting on the move and all that...., they shoot a different way.