Chuck Anderson

They use 10 round mags for stands, permanently attached to the mirror. Seems like a perfectly good use of a 10 rounder to me.

Mag in backwards is my fault. I stuck it on there to get a picture of the Infinite logo on the left side of the slide. The gun in the background has a micro red dot lo mounted in the slide. If memory serves it's a Burris Fast Fire.

I emailed them to Chris and Fireant. They should have it now. If it doesn't show let me know. Keep in mind this is a prototype, not the finished product. It's still pretty rough. (And also a lousy picture)

Soooo, does this mean you advocating cheating? I'm not quite understanding the logic of your post. Is it that it's okay to make modifications as long as you don't get caught as in your speed analogy? Your last statement makes me think that you might be thinking of just going ahead and making an illegal modification and just not allowing anyone to look. If I was an RM and the Chrono Dude came to me with a shooter he suspected of tinkering with his pistol (and after pulling the trigger he MAY be able to tell) and the shooter wouldn't allow an inspection, that would be a quick bump to Open. Don't know if that would be the right call, but I'm willing to be there are a lot of folks that would make the same call. I know for a fact at least half the BOD (talked to them personally)is aware of this and giving it consideration. I just hope they make a good decision.

I think Infinity and INFINITE are more confusing! SV can try to sue but STI now owns the trademark on INFINITE. I'm sure STI considered that ahead of time. If anyone is more tech savvy than me, I've got picutures of the prototype girp, I just don't know how to post them. I can email them for someone to post though.

I think it might have been just a bit deliberate.

Trijicon's new 1x4 is pretty sweet. Very nice field of view and the reticle brightness can be turned down with a cover that slide over the fiber optic panel. The other new scope that I saw was the IOR Valdad 1x4. It's a true 1x4 like the Trijicon, (at least as far as I can tell) with a short over all length and a BDC reticle for shooting longer ranges. It'll be kind of expensive, at least over 1000.00 but they didn't have pricing fixed yet.

Makes perfect sense to me. The $600.00 Glock 34 (including the cost of springs and sights and .25 trigger job) is competetive with anything on the market now. Take away the ability to modify the couple tiny things wrong with it and you end up needing to buy the new spiffy Sig X5 USPSA (hypothetical model), that Sig has specifically tuned from the factory with a lighter trigger etc. to meet the needs of today's new USPSA shooter who can't work on his gun. Now unfortunately Sig is going to have to charge $2000.00 for the new uber gun (1500.00 base plus all that time and energy to "tune" it for us). What basis would this gun have to be denied? None. Is this the direction USPSA Production should take, I don't think so.

The only thing that bugs me about that is the lack of accurate information provided by many manufacturers. Also since if the gun is weighed with the magazine there may be a wide difference in magazine weights. My SP-01 weighs almost an ounce more with the MecGar 16 round mag than with the 19 round SP-01 factory mag.

So I swung by STI's booth at the SHOT Show to see their new custom shop offerings. They have some very nice looking blasters. All will be built around Schuemann barrels and all will go by the custom shot name, "Infinite" And no that is not a typo. STI also had some other goodies out, such as the prototype of their new aluminum grip frame (will take any standard magwell), STI AR15, Matchmaster (a complete open gun similar to the Steelmaster but for Major USPSA competition) and several GP6's with triggers much nicer than what STI had on Display at Nationals this year.

The 22RTF (Rough Texture Frame) is a conventional mag release gun, all mags will work in it. The only Ambi mag catch guns are the SF models, 20, 21, 29, and 30. I really like the grip surface of this gun. I wish Glock would have relieved the trigger guard a bit but what are you going to do. This was the first grip that I would shoot without doing anything to the grip, no grip tape, nothing. It wasn't aggressive enough to worry about wearing out clothes though. The slide serrations suck though. They didn't offer any more purchase than the old ones. The RTF looks like it's only available in the 22 for now. At least I didn't see any other models with it.

You keep posting this ruling but it doesn't apply. It is specific to external parts, not internal parts.

USPSA doesn't use Standard Division, therefore no box. USPSA's version is Limited which allows 6" bbls bigger magwells and longer magazines than the comparable IPSC division. Modified is a gun tinkerer division. We have some competitors in the US that play with Modified guns at international matches, but not many. I think it's just one more division and we didn't want to further dilute the numbers of competitors we have.

Right now, a wide range of guns are very competetive in USPSA Production. Glock has an enviable record of winning National championships, but Springfield Armory, Beretta, Sig, CZ, and even Smith and Wesson have all been right up there at the top. I've had an opportunity to look at, up close, watch shoot, and/or play with each of those top 5 or so guns from the last 4 Nationas. Every one would be illegal now (except maybe Vogel's I didn't get a real close look at his). Even Dave Sevigny who does next to nothing to his gun still has a little bit of polish on his trigger parts. What makes each of these guns competetive is the relative ease of tuning them to be champions in Production. None come from the factory ready to win and dominate. Almost all (except the X5) were under 1000.00 from the factory, and several were under 500.00. In fact, I can buy a G34, polish a connector, add a spring and sights and still be right around 600.00, less with a used gun. This gun (not me) can win a National championship. If the trigger work (as minimal as it was) were to be eliminated the guns might not be as competitive. The big glaring problem I see it USPSA competitors will not be happy with that factory gun. What happens when gun company X decides to make a dedicated model for USPSA competition. They will add all the goodies that are now illegal for the gun shop smith to do, but are fairly simple. Gun companies charge a lot more for their time and restricted marketing options than, well anyone else, even top custom smiths. What we would likely end up with is a super Production gun, that is now the, "Gotta have it Gun" That's the cool thing about Production now is you can have guns from 5 different companies fill out the top 5 roster at Nats. If we do away with the ability of the customer to make those simple and cheap changes, you will restrict that freedom.

Make a decision as to what the Division should be an stick to it. If the BOD, now, decides it should be a stock division, come up with a set of rules that reflects that. But don't try to tell the membership that a division that you can make "almost" any change to the exterior that you want, but can't do a trigger job is stock. The rules right now are counter intuitive. You're allowing the things that could be restricted, cost the most money and could be enforced easily with a simple external examination. While at the same time you're restricting things that are very difficult to detect without a detailed internal examination and have minimal expense (if any). If the BOD comes out with a statement (or whatever) that Production should be X and makes rules to reflect that I'm cool with that and will stay in the division, assuming that is what I want to shoot. If the BOD votes that John's interpretation (which after reading the rule is probably correct) is what they intended and what they will retain, that is not a division I want to shoot and I'll probably bounce back to Limited. As far as what is the right thing to do, it is not making 90-95% of Production guns (at least of the ones I've seen) in use today illegal. Some change is fine, but not telling everyone in your customer base they need to change their guns.

Not in any version of Production I've seen? (single action only trigger). The X-5 only really has a home in L-10 in our game... Just point of order... Chuck and MattK (HuskySig) both pointed out the X-5 Allround, which is DA/SA, but apparently is no longer generally available (though it appears on the Production list). If its a standard Sig DA/SA trigger, though, its not a super-bad "good" DA/SA trigger - not worth that much more than a normal P226. Matt pointed out the extra sight radius and weight, which may be desirable, but I haven't been able to find any info on what would make the trigger in that gun be "all that", yet.... Still looking Thanks for the info, guys if you install the SIG short trigger, short reset trigger..you can make the SIG pretty nice..smooth. the X-Five allaround is a heavy beast..IIRC Roger Sherman shot one for short time and ended going back to his 226SST because of the weight. neat gun..just heavy Rodney May did pretty darn well with one at Nationals this year.

He does. But then, he also thinks Production Division has been around for 12 years. 12 years, 10 years, what's the difference. Close enough. (Approved at the 1999 GA for IPSC, USPSA to follow in 2000 if memory serves?)

Production division has been around for about 12 years now. I'm not sure how many on the BOD were on the BOD at that time. It would seem that many have a different opinion on what the intent of the Division should be. I've never heard a consistent message, some say stock, some say for beginners, some saw for LE, some say for DA 9mms. Whatever the reason, the rules don't match any of those intents. If it was meant to be stock, that train has left the station long ago. If it is not meant solely as a stock Division, the name is an issue. We're going to have people saying it should be stock until don't have a name that says Production. And no I don't have a replacement name in mind, it's too early in the morning for that. I don't know why the BOD decided to allow checkering, stippling, internal magwells etc in the last rule book. I always thought the grip tape, sights, and bbl being externally visible were enough. They were easy to check, and it could be done without any skill or training. If the gun is changed on the inside, who cares? What can actually be done in there to make the gun that much more shootable. As long as we stay with a weight limit there can't be that much sneaky internal lightening. That pretty much leaves the trigger. If we're not going to have a trigger pull limit, we shouldn't limit the work that can be done to the trigger. It's an unenforcable rule that will soon stop having a purpose. Right now it might somehow serve as a defacto limit because only a factory trigger is allowed. However it won't take much for a couple of gun companies to come out with competition specific models that have excellent trigger from the factory. Do we really want to say a $400.00 Glock is no longer competetive because the connector cannot be exchanged, sorry if you want a good trigger go buy a $1500.00 Sig X-5 or a $3000.00 Sphinx? I'm guessing there would be a fair number of shooter not happy with that.

Ok, it's REALLY REALLY CLEAR to me that Production is supposed to be a stock division apparently, except for changing slides, barrels, milling in sights, checkering and stippling, the addition of butt plugs and internal magwells, springs, safeties, slide stops, and tungsten guide rods. Sorry guys, but stock division is no longer an option. If John is also saying no modificaitons of those items I doubt any Production gun finishing in the top 25 was legal at last years nationals. And since none of them were caught, that means there is a serious problem. A rule that can't be enforced is not a good rule. It is a guarantee to cause hard feelings by everyone. Either the people who spent money on modificaitons that were legal and now aren't or the people that assume someone has a modified gun but no way to prove it. I can barely figure out how to tear my CZ down beyond a simple field strip. (it normally results in a call to Angus and 20 minutes of him calling me an idiot. I'm not saying he's wrong). There is no way at a National match I'm going to let the Chrono guy detail strip my gun when I can't even get it back together without factory support and replacement parts. This rule needs to be amended immediately.

I'll be there for both. Probably Production/L10

Last I heard from John, he had written his opinion on the rule and submitted it for BOD approval. We won't hear anything else till the BOD gets together (either in person or by email) to vote on it.

There's no way that bolt is worth $140.00. You know, unless the other bolt breaks during a match, or when someone is shooting at you. How much would someone pay to not zero a stage at Nationals? Or an important match like SMM3G or RM3G?

Dawson pads are normally not the issue, he only makes a few different lengths. Where people were getting into trouble (at least what I've seen) are with Grams Pads. Beven makes so many different sizes so he can maximize the capacity (legally) that if the shooter doesn't have a guage, it's easy to switch. And BTW Rich, Holster positition etc. has been checked at many matches, you just need to get out more. In the last two years I've had just about every possible thing on my guns checked from mags, trigger, weight, trigger weight (IPSC), grip tape, holster position and I'm sure there is a bunch I'm missing. If you're seeing people cheat at the Nationals that's on them and a little on you.

I've been hearing very good things about this match and the group behind it. I am planning to be there. Sounds like they are really pushing to get USPSA 3 Gun back on track.

Nope, see post #14. Desert Sportsman was the location of the 05 Debacle (err, I mean Nationals.)