KyleL

Flexmoney, I will answer for Kurt and if he dislikes it I am sure he will jump in to correct me. If you are looking to get into three gun here is what you need to be ready for absolutely any tactical, limited, cool guy, or even open match. Ar-15 Flat top with removable carry handle and an optic to slap on when needed. No comp just in case rules change in some of the matches. Remington 1100 Competition Master or Shotgun of your choice with a barrel no longer than 22" Pistol 40 or 45 High Capacity Bladetech Belt holster with no speed cuts Bladetech SOF Mag pouches for pistol and rifle Viking Tactics Sling (just cause it is cool) Knee pads. Now you are ready for any match out there that I can think of. USPSA, SMM3G, SOF or whatever it is called, NC3GUN, Tenn 3 Gun, Colorado 3 Gun. So Kurt Have I left anything out.. I think this will get most guys going. So call it what you want. Tactical, non Tactical... Lets just shoot.. KyleL

As for the 8-9 round rule, the new Remington 1100 Competition Master comes with a 22 incher and an 8 round tube. Pretty sweet piece. And once again Tactical or not, call the class something else or tell those who want to use a comped pistol with an optic "NO". There comes a time in every match directors life when he or she has to reach down and just say NO. I do find this discussion very humorous, days of chat without really getting anywhere. Almost like the USPSA of past....... luckily for those of us who like three gun Voigt has stopped some of the stupidity. God Bless America..... KyleL

Hey Oddjob, Stevens advice is great, I go one step farther but you have to test your blaster to make sure. I open up the ports as stated by Steven then I replace the gas ring with the Remington steel ring, it is an accelerator seal or some crazy name, anyway this part seals the system and won't wear out, at least I haven't worn one out yet. You also need to make sure your gas sysyem is lubed very well with Rem lube spray, of course make sure it is clean before you spray it down. Hope this helps. ADIOS KyleL

Rimfire Guy, Sometimes it is too much spring in the magazine tube. If you use a good spring, place the spring in the tube that is connected to the receiver, now slide your extension over the other end of the spring. Without compressing the spring trim it so approx 8 inches of spring is between the tube and the extension. Now put it back together and give it a shot. Also in the shell lifter, if there are any rough edges were the bolt has been battering that specific part, a couple of passes with a file will allow the bolt to go forward smoothly. And lastly insure that the action is receiving enough gas to push the bolt all the way to the rear. Only way to get more gas is to open the ports, just don't over do it. Hope this helps. ADIOS KyleL

Quote from Patrick "4) Don't cop out by saying "We do it this way here at our match, so what's the problem?" If we all did that, there'd be a hundred definitions of tactical. No much help. Yes, a hundred (or two) show up at your match, but unless you can codify it so the rest of us can use it, your approach is useful for you and not us. " Quote from KurtM "Maybe MOST 3-gunners enjoy these matches because THEY ARE NOT run by U.S.P.S.A.( at least the ones I know ) and their attendant rules. " I guess the bottom line for my line of thinking is as follows. 1. At a tactical match I can use what I would carry or do carry or at least something very similar to. 2. I don't want to get fenced in to a certain group of folks making the rules for my match. 3. I don't want to be affiliated with USPSA or IDPA or NRA type match thinking. 4. I want the people that go to our match to continue to show up. 5. I want to continue to draw new shooters with what they have laying around not a special event weapon. 6. I want to continue to draw sponsors, changes to a USPSA type format may hurt this. 7. I will personally take the good and BAD that come from the outcome of my match. Blame will stay with our match only, not USPSA or any other organization. Well that is all for now.. Hope we can keep hitting the horse, it gives me something to think about. Also Patrick, I actually had to pull out a dictionary to see what CODIFY means, so not only are we having a great discussion I am also learning something. Just like Sesame Street... LOL Until next time ADIOS KyleL

By the way Jeff Cramblit actually makes the tube I use. Green fiberglass with the ability to move pieces of picatinny rail where they are needed. There is a picture of this tube on the website. KyleL

To all the girls I've loved before.... Oh sorry wrong chat room... NC Tactical has been luck in the past. We have had mostly Military, Law enforcment, and fellas that want to have fun. A few guys you may have heard of also shoot the match and haven't over gamed the rules. Bennie C, Voigt, Jim Jr, Little Todd Salmon, and of course Kelly "The Man with the plan" Neal. Kurt, No problem with making a rule on shotguns. No more than 9 can fit in the gun. Rifle-one optic, no bipod, sling stays, muzzle breaks ok since the majority of our shooters already use them. And yes, free float tubes.... At some point common sense has to be applied. This year we had a couple of fellas that wanted to bend the rules. No problem we just said NO. No porting on the shotgun actually meant no porting. No race holsters also means no race holsters. When fellas have questions I tell them to bring what they want but don't be disappointed if we say no. So far peer pressure has worked pretty well. Some of the game boys have shown up, but after a 300 yard jungle run, lowcrawling under wire, climbing across a rope, well they shut up and just try to finish the match. I am not trying to offend anyone but I don't want this match to be stifled by someone elses rules. I don't plan on ever becoming a follower.... Hope some more of you fellas get a chance to shoot our match if we can run it again. Blane I tried mailing you back but I am deployed right now so wasn't able to get the mail out to you. Definately want to shoot your match... KyleL

Tube handgaurds are issued not only to Marksmanship units but other soldiers and sailors as well. If you want to use your sling it is a neccessity. Open top mag pouches are being used, as well as Bladetech Holsters. If a locking device is there it must be used. Otherwise if he loses the weapon out of the holster DQ. Shotgun 22 inch limit or no more than 9 rounds total. We allow as long as you want as long as you don't mind using that 26 incher inside a Mazda Miata. Our stages require you to shoot from Real Props. This eliminates alot of gaming. Alot of running, crawling, crying, this will help out the equip rules. Sling a must, (of course a Viking Tactics sling) most of our stages require you to use more than one weapon. If you transition to your sidearm from Rifle you must carry it with you. Some of you won't agree with this but that is more tactical than grounding the blaster. Is it unsafe, yes if you don't have good ROs. NC Tactical has the best ROs in the world, actually in the universe as far as we know.. Just my opinion... Well actually just the rules for my match. Change what you want just check our site before you show up, our rules will remain relatively unchanged. KyleL

Last time I talked with Merle he was working for Ferrel Gas in Georgia.That was before the big D KyleL

And when he says over a MILLION he means it. Is a minigun considered legal for three gun. It definately makes major. But a grease pencil mark on the windscreen might be pushing it a little, kind of Gamey. Guess that would put you in open with all the fast movers. Lucky for you they haven't hit a target lately.... LOL Take it easy JL ADIOS KyleL

Kelly, Still working on major minor issue. I have a couple ideas but since we add time for points dropped I just have to be heads up as to who is shooting major/minor. I really just want to avoid the whole chrono thing. And if we score major minor the chrono will definately have to be used. Actionshooter said it best. For the rest of us its a sport or game. All I have to do is follow the rules,if it says 1 scope or no scope at all,thats what I do to play the game. I am pretty sure every big time IPSC shooter(My brother Kelly) has the gear needed laying around to shoot the NC Tactical. This past year we had some real guys with real guns and we pointed out a shortcoming in their gear with the course design. Since then they have changed a few things to make target engagements a little better in a real world situations. I am happy about that. Some of us train for the next big match while others are training to allow us to have that next big match. KyleL

Only in America can we agree to disagree. As a match director of a Tactical 3 Gun, I have decided to establish rules(for my match only) that hopefully will make sense to the masses that will attend this type of match. Only one optic of choice, iron sights with optic ok. But one thing I try not to forget is that this is just a shooting match, although when some fellas are regailing SP? their experiences at my match it is like listening to a History channel special on LRP's in Vietnam. Anyway, if we can get a few soldiers, sailors, and Police Officers to attend great. If the equipment issue scares them off oh well, more than likely their lack of ability is truely the problem. (sucks to suck in front of real shooters) "USPSA rules do not allow a tactical operator to compete with issue gear and be competitive." THIS ISN'T EVEN AN ISSUE.... If I get my mates to come and they like the SPORT, yes SPORT, then they can get a few gadgets to make them feel more competitive. I love to compete, I love to be innovative, and I love the job I have. Competing in USPSA competition will help me perform better at my day job, but I would rather be shooting PUSBT Pop Up Shoot Back Targets than US Poppers and Paper.. If you are into gadgets, keep trying new stuff, and when you come up with something good, us poor military fellas might just adopt it... LOL Oh lastly, just a couple things US Military has given to the competition world. M-1 M-14 AR-15 1911 Not a very long list but boy it would be hard to shoot three gun without em... Kelly, do you want to jump static line or HALO... LOL And no concrete for you, just a vat of boiling oil... LOL KyleL

Well boys this is a can of worms I really don't wish to mess with, however I did a test with the optima in such a configuration and it lasted exactly one day. (the truth is it lasted only a few minutes. Please add jump operations, climbing over cement walls, and rain to your setup and let me know how you fare. Leupold is great, ACOG fine, US Optics Gay, Holosight fast . Optima broken or distorted at the OBJ. You also need to look at the skill level of the average soldier. How many shoot matches or even shoot once a month. ANPEQ2 is not an identifier it is an IR aiming device with flood light. Now if you boys want to have some night shoots that is the tool of choice. When you gents develop a Holosight type scope with the capability to crank up the power, let us know.. You might actually sell 1 or 25,000.. God Bless the United States of America KyleL

Patrick Great idea with one exception. Don't hit the poor defensles optic. Hit the shooter in the forehead. And if he wants to put on two optics he gets 10 hits. This would sort out the people who really are serious about shooting. You know Kelly and Kurt would probably get in line for several whacks...... LOL KyleL

Flex, Thanks for the help I have heard nothing but good thing about GSSF. ADIOS KyleL

Cashbender, Thanks for the help. I still am not quite sure but when I show up to the match, they will surely push me in the right direction. I am a Master class USPSA shooter and their rules don't exactly explain where I can or can't shoot. Thanks alot KyleL

I am planning on shooting a GSSF Match in two weeks and AM not quite sure what is legal and what isn't. I haven't been able to find the rules on the web in understandable terms. I want to shoot my 17 in as many classes as I can and my 26 in whatever class I must use it for. Thanks for the help KyleL

I opened my ports up to just a tad over .120 and took out the gas ring, I replaced it with the activator. This has worked very well so far. Also the barrel I am using is a 22" Special purpose barrel, the pressure compensated type. Which I cut and rechoked. Another item that can't be overlooked is proper lube. The mag tube where your gas system cycles should be heavily lubed with Remoil spray, Fastex, what ever your poison is. Make sure it is a lube that resists heat and pressure. The inside of the action needs to stay lubed as well. Not to insult anyones intelllliggggennce, but I have fixed alot of broken guns on the range with a squirt or two of lube. If you are using a extended mag tube with clamp, make sure the clamp isn't torquing on your gas system. The distance from the barrel to the tube should be the same front to rear. ie parrallel... I can't spell but you get the drift. The only clamp I have seen so far that works correctly is the Clark Custom Gun clamp. By the way I shoot 1 oz 2 3/4 Dram Equ. loads... Easy shooting and easy on the gun. KyleL

Kurt, Kelly, Craig, and all the fellas, This is very interesting, this forum is great because you can actually learn something. 1. Kurt is a Zoolander fan, as me be, cause I don't talk good neither... Anyway, I am glad to hear the comments concerning Lewis. I still believe we will run our match in the future as it has been in the past. However we may slightly change the prize distro.. If I am unable to come up with a better way it may remain the same but I will definately try to come up with the right answer. I hope to run a match out west here as well, keep checking our site for info.. ADIOS KyleL

KurtM, At the last NC Tactical 3 Gun Championships we gave away 24 guns. The top 6 shooters received blasters, the remaining number of competitors were split into 3 equal groups. The top 6 in each group received guns as well. So 1-12, 51-56, and 96-101... Everyone seemed pretty happy with the outcome. This is the Lewis system slightly modified to meet our needs. Of the top 12 shooters I am the only shooter to have shot all of the NC Tactical three guns. Of the top 20 shooters only 3 shooters have shot all of the matches. My point here is that the shooters from 65% on down are the shooters who come back every year. They know it is a crap shoot whether or not they will win a gun, they want a good match, with great RO's and great memorable stages... We deliver that, and to top it off they may get lucky, yes lucky, and win a blaster. If people get upset because they finish 14th and don't win a pistol, fine.. as long as they are upset for the right reasons. If you are mad because you wish you would have performed better and finished higher in the guns, Cool. If you are upset because the 101st shooter received a pistol and you didn't..... Sorry, raise your goals. And remember 101 is happier with a gun than the top shooter, because he has probably never won one. Also remember what the sponsors want....... We have great sponsors every year because of the way we conduct business... Lewis has its place. Hope you will be able to shoot the match one day. Can't promise you a gun, but I will bet that you enjoy the match and learn something about yourself or your gear. KyleL

Phil, Mike Gibson makes the best steel target systems, hands down. He is a great American, and a shooter. He also gives back to our sport. KyleL

Whew what a relief, I was having this weird picture of Mr. Pat Kelly wrapped around a tree with his blaster... Sounds like a good stage though. I favor the Remington. Tried Benelli... works for Jeff Cramblit but not for me. Tried Winchester... Don't see any plus. Tried Browning Gold.. Cool but still don't see a need for the speed feed feature unless I were left handed.. It is magic though... How do it KNOW. KyleL

Sounds good to me Phil. Now when Fuhr Billy finds out he is going to make us all shoot naked...... And I don't know about you but the thought of Hackathorn naked kind of turns my stomach... LOL... Always think outside the box...KyleL

Kurt, It is true that I am now at Ft Lewis, but I believe the match will continue. It may actually be held twice a year. Once as the West coast North Carolina Tactical three gun and then as itself in NC. I still haven't found any ranges out here, but have been spending more time flyfishing than shooting. Keep checking my web site.. One last thing ----If you want to gain respect in the 3 Gun world, You just can't hang around with guys like Todd, Blane, and Jimmy..... LOL ADIOS KyleL

Kurt, I believe the bottom line is we all just want to shoot.... I believe the rules I use for my match are the best... hehehehehe The only problem with my match is I am in charge. I make the decisions, and I write the rules. Well actually I have them in my head and I tend to be a little Skitso.... We have tried to apply common sense. For example only one scope on your rifle, no ported shotguns and .5 seconds added for each point down, and we use USPSA tgts. Kurt go to my site for some of the rules. http://www.VIKINGTACTICS.com Kelly as far as the Cloned RO's go......... I don't know if you can afford their beer and Copenhagen bills. The RO's I use are shooters first and RO's second. We have had problems like everyone but I try to keep them in line. Especially that fella from Texas...(Greg) I believe our match will continue to grow. Good stages, 24 guns on the prize table, and great RO's. Oh and free food and shirt.. We also like to make most of our stages combo stages... And just so you all can rest easy I have several heavies waiting to Clobber me if I start getting stupid with the rules and stages... (like IDPA) Hope that doesn't happen........ KyleL