kamikaze1a Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I bought my first Glock about a year ago and been shooting it in Limited 10 the whole time. Recently, I've been having problems that I believe is caused by the mags. I am seeing a live round ejecting, or a live round ejecting with the empty, or two live rounds stripping during a cycle or finding a round, sometimes two sticking up from a ejected mag. It doesn't happen a lot but usually happens during a shoot, rarely during range time. It happened three times during the weekends match. The really odd part is that it only seems to happen on the last round or second to the last round. The feed lips look good and I store my mags empty. Comparing it to another member's mags, my mag's feed lips do not look any wider than his and he has never had any problems like this. Since this is happening when the mags are almost empty, it would seem that the springs are soft but I find it hard to believe with year old mags. All the other Glock shooters have mags that are years old and never had to change their mag springs... These are factory 10 rd mags. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Try changing the mag springs out. I think I remember another shooter telling me that the 10 round .40 cal mags could be problematic. I have a half dozen 9mm ten rounds and they are tight. Most everybody I know changes mag springs once a year or whenever they feel they are wearing out. But we are using high caps. Might not be a mag problem, I am sure some of the other Glock guys will lend their advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Are you shooting Minor power factor? With a stock recoil spring? Do you have the extended slide stop/release in the gun? Anything that isn't stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero_down Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 +1 on the fact that I think its definately a mag problem but before you go tearing your mags apart, ask some of the other shooters if you can borrow some of their mags. If the problem goes away, then you have your answer. Unfortunetly you'll have to wait for another match day since you said that it doesn't happen during practice and only when you get up to the line. (funny how all the problems, ONLY happen during the match) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUKE Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 +1 on trying another shooter's mag's ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks for the tips. Well I have 6 mags and THOUGHT that I had figured out the two that were causing the problems but as I said, had problems with a couple others at the match. One is brand new but not sure which one it is. I have one that I just took out of the package lastnight so that will be my control. I compared the lips and spring tension and the width is basically the same but sticking my finger down the mag, I can feel that the new mag's spring has more tension. Doing the same with the mags I was running during the match, I find one has a stronger spring so that must be the new one. It's hard to believe that they are worn already though...as others that shoot at our range have been using the same mags for years and never changed their 10 rd mag's springs. I guess it's the cheapest trial and it shouldn't hurt to do anyway. Flexmoney, I am loading Major, G35 so it came with the extended slide release is standard but wondering why that could be a factor? As for the springs, not stock...15# and changed out barrel, striker and trigger assembly. I've been considering trying a stock spring to see if slide velocity might be the cause... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Honestly, sounds to me more like a worn-out recoil spring. Pull the recoil spring out of the gun and compare its length to a stock spring. I'll bet you find it's WAY shorter than it should be. Or if it's still a captured unit and you don't want to mess around with tearing things apart, just buy a replacement spring unit (they're not expensive) and replace it, see if that solves your problem - which I'll bet it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcic Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks for the tips. Well I have 6 mags and THOUGHT that I had figured out the two that were causing the problems but as I said, had problems with a couple others at the match. One is brand new but not sure which one it is. I have one that I just took out of the package lastnight so that will be my control. I compared the lips and spring tension and the width is basically the same but sticking my finger down the mag, I can feel that the new mag's spring has more tension. Doing the same with the mags I was running during the match, I find one has a stronger spring so that must be the new one. It's hard to believe that they are worn already though...as others that shoot at our range have been using the same mags for years and never changed their 10 rd mag's springs. I guess it's the cheapest trial and it shouldn't hurt to do anyway. Flexmoney, I am loading Major, G35 so it came with the extended slide release is standard but wondering why that could be a factor? As for the springs, not stock...15# and changed out barrel, striker and trigger assembly. I've been considering trying a stock spring to see if slide velocity might be the cause... The best thing to do to figure out if it is a specific magazine is to number all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Honestly, sounds to me more like a worn-out recoil spring. Pull the recoil spring out of the gun and compare its length to a stock spring. I'll bet you find it's WAY shorter than it should be. Or if it's still a captured unit and you don't want to mess around with tearing things apart, just buy a replacement spring unit (they're not expensive) and replace it, see if that solves your problem - which I'll bet it does. I'm not disputing what you suggested because I came here asking and REALLY need to resolve this. Could you explain to me how the recoil sping would cause a loaded round to eject along with the empty? Or why rounds would be sticking out of the mag lips when I drop the mag? To be honest, I was just lastnight wondering if the lighter recoil spring could be the cause as everyone in my club that I spoke to runs the stock spring. I am using a heavy guide so going back to stock might be a problem but stock weight would not... Mark, my mags are numbered and thought prior to this shoot that only #2 and #6 were bad. Sunday's shoot, #4 and another acted up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 A lighter than stock poundage recoil spring shouldn't be a problem - though in Major .40 I wouldn't go down too terribly far. A worn-out recoil spring OTOH could be a problem, because at the end of its travel the slide whacks hard into the frame, causing the rounds to bounce hard, up and down, in the mag and causing all manner of feeding failures. Like I said, replace the recoil spring with a new one, see if that solves the problem. What have got to lose other than a few bucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The fact that it happens in matches is a clue. That means it's a marginal system, and your tension while shooting adds to the error showing up. Extended slide stops/releases should be thrown in the trash. Put a stock unit into the gun (Glock brand). With a thumbs forward grip (most popular), the shooter invariably ends up contacting the release during shooting. Usually this happens when things get a little tension...like in a match, or worse. This effects gun function. (drag) Major ammo, should have enough juice to run the slide. (what is your load?) The after market recoil spring might be binding...which does shorten slide stroke. Your after market barrel could be fit in such a way that it robs energy from the system. It might have a rough chamber, disrupting extraction (robbing energy). The ramp could be goofy, which could hinder feeding. Lots of stuff...could be adding up. Since you see it on the last round in the mag, that is a clue. Either the mag isn't presenting the bullet properly (presentation is different when another bullet is under the round that is feeding vs. the follower)...or, the slides travel has been interrupted. Or both. I'd put the stock barrel and recoil spring/assembly back in it...loose the extended slide stop/release...and then go shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 A lighter than stock poundage recoil spring shouldn't be a problem - though in Major .40 I wouldn't go down too terribly far. A worn-out recoil spring OTOH could be a problem, because at the end of its travel the slide whacks hard into the frame, causing the rounds to bounce hard, up and down, in the mag and causing all manner of feeding failures. Like I said, replace the recoil spring with a new one, see if that solves the problem. What have got to lose other than a few bucks? Great explanation and logical too. The spring is not that old though not to say that it's not worn out but easy enough to trial. I actually went from a 13# to the 15# after last month's shoot trying to resolve a different problem. I think (hope) I have the other problem figured out so now this mag thing is my priority. I will try a 17# spring and report back after next month's shoot or sooner if I see any progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 The fact that it happens in matches is a clue. That means it's a marginal system, and your tension while shooting adds to the error showing up. Extended slide stops/releases should be thrown in the trash. Put a stock unit into the gun (Glock brand). With a thumbs forward grip (most popular), the shooter invariably ends up contacting the release during shooting. Usually this happens when things get a little tension...like in a match, or worse. This effects gun function. (drag) Major ammo, should have enough juice to run the slide. (what is your load?) The after market recoil spring might be binding...which does shorten slide stroke. Your after market barrel could be fit in such a way that it robs energy from the system. It might have a rough chamber, disrupting extraction (robbing energy). The ramp could be goofy, which could hinder feeding. Lots of stuff...could be adding up. Since you see it on the last round in the mag, that is a clue. Either the mag isn't presenting the bullet properly (presentation is different when another bullet is under the round that is feeding vs. the follower)...or, the slides travel has been interrupted. Or both. I'd put the stock barrel and recoil spring/assembly back in it...loose the extended slide stop/release...and then go shoot it. Thanks for all the ideas...but the extended is stock. The G34 and 35 comes with the extended release and I am comfortable saying that this problem could not be related to the release. The extended could and had caused the lock back due to a high grip once during range time and could cause a problem someday if I ever grip it odd again but feel the benefits outweigh the negative in this case. As for some of your other ideas, the spring bind is worth looking into. I read an piece once by a Glock shooter where they ran soft recoil spring with coils cut off to resolve binding. I'll have to check for spring bind in my setup. There is a lot of merit in what you stated. As for the barrel, giving that up would be hard sell... Thanks for the ideas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The idea isn't to get rid of the barrel --- the idea is to get the gun back to stock configuration and see if it runs. Then swap in one desired component at a time --- and see if it continues to run. If it doesn't run, then you've identified the component, and can see about replacing it or having it tended to..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The extended slide stop is a bad idea. If it doesn't cause you problems now, it will at some time in the future. The fact that this is a stock part doesn't make it less of a bad idea. You will find no one who is really serious who doesn't switch out this part for the low profile unit off a Glock 17. What advantage do you feel the extended slide stop gives you that outweighs occasionally locking the action open with rounds still in the magazine? As your skill level improves, you're going to find your grip on the gun getting higher and higher, and the extended release causing you more and more problems. I guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Thanks for all the ideas...but the extended is stock. The G34 and 35 comes with the extended release and I am comfortable saying that this problem could not be related to the release. The extended could and had caused the lock back due to a high grip once during range time and could cause a problem someday if I ever grip it odd again but feel the benefits outweigh the negative in this case. As Hans und Franz would say... "Hear me now, and believe me later!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Listen to what Flex is saying. Some guys dremel the extension off. No one is trying to lead you down the garden path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The extended slide stop is a bad idea. If it doesn't cause you problems now, it will at some time in the future. The fact that this is a stock part doesn't make it less of a bad idea. You will find no one who is really serious who doesn't switch out this part for the low profile unit off a Glock 17. Duane's got it almost right...... You will find no right-handed shooter who is really serious who doesn't switch out this part for the low profile unit off a Glock 17. Are you a lefty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 As Hans und Franz would say... "Hear me now, and believe me later!" What if the gun was a giant muscle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 As Hans und Franz would say... "Hear me now, and believe me later!" What if the gun was a giant muscle? You v'uld halv to "pomp it Uppp!" Yaaaazzzs ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I haven't seen this yet, so I'll throw it out there. Occasionally, you can get a burr in the grove of the magazine where the mag release locks into. If there is a burr there, it's easy to fix with an exacto blade. Possibly, the burr could be pushing the mag just a bit higher when locked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Regarding the slide release, I totally understand what you are saying and realize that it could cost me if it I happen to bump it during a COF. I did it once and fortunately it wasn't during a match but for now, my priority is figuring out this mag issue. I confirmed lastnight that I am not experiencing coil bind during cycling so I think I will try replacing the mag springs first. I ordered new mag springs and a 17# recoil spring and try the mag springs, then the recoil spring. It occurred to me lastnight, that the mag problem/rounds popping out started happening after I increased recoil spring weight from a 13# to a 15#. I changed the spring while I was trying to figure out my other problem, a FTRB issue. Thanks for all the input and will post results once the mag springs arrive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 Springs arrived and will try the mag springs first. Dramatic increase in tension over original but might not know if that resolved the issue until next month's match since it does not always happen. If I see problems reoccur, I have new heavier recoil springs now too. Will report findings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Please don't take this as being mean....just call this a polite, but direct, reality check I had to laugh as I read this thread...it's a classic example of something we see here all the time. You've got some of the most experienced Glock shooters in the world giving you advice, which you asked for, and you're not going to take it. This happens about 95% of the time when people ask a question looking for help This is almost always folks that are newer and less experienced...which seems to be the case here....it's the subtle stuff that suggests this (no experienced USPSA/IDPA shooter I know calls it a "shoot", they call it a "match"), but that might be a false impression on my part. Still, if you're going to do your own thing, knock yourself out, but sooner or later you're going to wind up back at whatever the folks here told you or very, very close to it. Seriously, ditch the extended slide stop lever, put the factory guide rod/spring, barrel, etc, etc back in the gun and then see what happens. You can then swap back one part at a time and see what happens. I'd be willing to bet that simply putting the factory guide rod/spring back in would fix the problem. Replacing the mag springs may "cure" your problem but it will be temporary and it will come back as soon as they get just a little wear and take a set (they all do this). That's because you are running a combination that is marginal and only works under ideal conditions. If you've bumped the slide stop lever once, you will again, and it will happen just when you don't want it to. I get to see hundreds of new Glocks issued every year and in most cases we wind up taking off the extended slide stop lever because they cause problems. There really is no benefit to them as it's a small lever and it's no easier to hit than the standard unit. Like Flex said...hear me now, believe me later....you'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 I do appreciate everyone's help and will consider trying some of the suggestions out if the new mag springs do not resolve the issue. I feel I must try the mag spring change first because I truly can not see how the barrel or guide rod could cause a loaded round to eject with the spent shell or cause unfired rounds to be sticking up from the mag's lips when I drop the mag. If it was happening with every mag or if it didn't always happen when the spring was at it's weakest point (as in always last or 2nd to last round), I might think otherwise. In any case, I thank you all for your help and I will let you all know how the mag springs work out. Some people just got to learn the hard way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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