Race Holsters

[XRe]

I'm not sure that is the whole story.

We don't DQ shooters for dropping their gun outside the cof. If we did...and many have suggested we should...then we'd see a lot more DQs. I know I would have 2 (currently at none).

The obvious corrollary is that you'd also hear lots of bitching about "...and then we had those damn 18 dropped guns out of those stupid race holsters. We couldn't get anyone through a course of fire, we were so damn busy picking up dropped guns...". You don't hear any of that, either, just like you don't hear copious stories about DQs.

[boo radley]

And, we design stages that take the holstered gun out of the equation (gun on table starts when we have 'weird" start positions).

Because here's what happens if you don't: (from 2006 FLOpen thread)

"Last stage to be shot by my squad on Saturday. Guy before me starts and drops gun, DQ. I ask him if he had holster locked, he says no. Other guys say it has already happened to 6-8 people from other squads. My turn......I LAMR, gun in holster, and LOCK IT. Turn to RO and show him that it is locked and yank up on it a couple of times to test. We even have a good laugh about me being nervous even though holster is now locked.

BEEP, take 3 steps forward, lose control of handles, so I stop and reach back

for them. Gun comes out of locked holster and I go to Dairy Queen! "

12 DQ's total, and I think 8 or 9 for the same reason on 1 stage?

In any event, it seems like very, very few stages ever have start positions or actions that challenge holster retention, and I guess this has been a natural evolution and for good reason. But if that's the case (and I'm not against race holsters -- I voted 'no change'), I would hate to see that mentality extend to other areas of stage design so that no targets ever presented themselves close to the 180, for example, or no steel was ever closer than 15y, or less and less movement will be required or....

My long-winded point being, there is some indignation that race-holsters aren't safe or secure, and hostility towards any new rule that would change the status quo -- fair enough. But the issue has been rendered moot by never having stages that require a practical holster.

[warpspeed]

Sorry guys. A dropped gun falling during the cof is an issue. We DQ for it.

Whatever the holster type...shouldn't it provide a "practical" level of retention?

We absolutely do. I'm more concerned with a firearm discharging when it hits the ground. So should we add a practical pistol to go with the practical holster?

If we are going to go off on safe holsters, I'd say disabling safeties is a more risky situation - as we more often have a loaded gun in our hands than in a holster.

ETA I have no dog in this fight, just stirring things a bit.

I had not thought about that.

For a 1911 pattern gun, the beavertail grip safety, if not disengaged, would prevent a dropped gun from going off, right ?

[XRe]

For a 1911 pattern gun, the beavertail grip safety, if not disengaged, would prevent a dropped gun from going off, right ?

No. It only prevents the trigger from being pulled. It does not prevent the sear from bouncing or the firing pin from moving. Go see the Production Division rule change thread to see how important people think the parts that prevent the firing pin from moving really are...

[smokshwn]

That is the discussion that I keep trying to have.

Read what you wrote again. The discussion you keep trying to have. The discussion the OP keeps trying to have is entirely different. None of us seem to be talking to you. We're talking to the OP.

(eta the cheers smiley.... that read grumpy, and I didn't intend that )

Flex,

I understand your intent.....it seems as though many don't.

My point has continually been that the holsters (all types) are not the problem....the shooters are. The problem is analogous to the extent that automobile design has gone in providing hundreds of safety mechanisms for accident mitigation. Yet we have done very little to improve the skillset of the operator.

Personally, I get very frustrated at these discussions. It seems as a society we continually look outside of our own performance to find "improvement"....this sport is so incredibly attractive because it forces that search to focus back on the individual for improvement. At times I think this type of discussion diminishes that. IF our goal is to make ALL holsters safer...there are great gains to be had by putting effort into making ALL holster users safer.

Edited May 30, 2009 by smokshwn