exoninja Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I just found out that I can actually shoot without consiously looking at the sights. I found myself pointing the gun at the target, and actually adjusting my aim a little before taking the shot, all without sights. It seems that I can take aim, and even adjust my aim for a better shot, without sights, and probably by mental alignment of the barrel. Any comments on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Cool, but it doesn't take any more time to use the sights, and since they are right there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Shooting with a target only focus can work well when your index is really on , but I find that from day to day it's really not consistently dependable, especially when you take a step back beyond 10 yds. . Add in match pressure and watch it fall apart in short order. I find myself falling into the habit sometimes at the end of a practice session when my index is perfect and I can trade site picture for speedy target aquisition. It's a fine line between to much and too little when it comes to site focus. Chances are that if your getting good consistent hits and can call your shots you may be getting more of a look at the sites than you realize. Try it at 15 yds. and beyond, and see if it still works. In my opinion, that's where the really good shooters get seperated from the pretenders. Shooting fast and accurately at those distances requires you to track your sites and call your shots , so you might as well get used to tracking them all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I really agree with Rocket. Like exoninja I can sight very very well on the target if I am close i.e., less than 10 yards. My speed and accuracy is up there with top B and lower A shooters. But 12 yards and beyond I really choke. That is when I need to focus on the front sight but have a tendency to soft focus the front sight. So I usually end up with a Mike in the stage. So all the good shooting gets negated by the Mike. So unless the entire stage is a run and gun with all the targets less than 10 yards, I am slowing down to get a good front sight focus. It seems to pay off for the entire match. Matt does a little drill to check for a flinch; fire 10 rounds fast. The speed is such that you can not flinch for every round. This drill really helps me focus on the front sight, watching it rise and settle down. Doing this before a match has really made a difference for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 You can hit surprisingly accurately, once your index is refined, without using sights. But try shooting a racks of 8" plates at 15 yards with no sights. Then go back and shoot your previous targets with the same focus you had without sights, and you might find that the sights only help, at all ranges - if you use them properly. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoninja Posted October 19, 2003 Author Share Posted October 19, 2003 Is it recommended to shoot based on your muscle-memory, or is it better to always use your sights (except for really really close targets)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 it's not either or. Use both! Usually, the sights just confirm what your index is doing. But without that confirmation hitting becomes a chance game...read all the posts about *Calling shots*... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Neat thread... Couple of observations, I am reminded of Jim Wall finishing 2nd LIMITED not L10 with a sightless Norinco out of an IWB holster a couple of years ago at an AREA match!! I guess his index was on. Second, and I think Brian's book talks about it, when things are right, at high speed you are only confirming the index with the sites, they should already be where your mind wants the hole. Lastly, and I'm not sure it applies, but made me think of it... I went to FLETC for the instructor course a few months ago. It was good to see an IPSC GM on staff up there (Sam Conway). Anyway, I went up there with a Berretta, not my normal 1911. Towards the end we got to shoot lowlight. I mean REALLY low light, like, you can make out the shape of the target and that's it. It also seems that I was the only guy there without night sights. I had over a week with the gun and rig, probably better than 1000 rounds. I went at a safe "down zero" pace and just pointed the gun. Out to 15 yards, my hits were at least as good as the rest of the class, and real close to my hits during lighted courses. The thing I did notice, and it might have been because I wasn't completely comfortable with the gun, but if I took too much time, like on head shots, I tended to heel the gun up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I'm with Detlef. Let's have an experiment (seriously). Next time when you go out to the range, set up a target at 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50 yards. Do 6 shot strings using ONLY your index and see where the hits are. Paste and do it again while using your sights. I'll bet any money that if all shots are on target at all distances, it will be a tighter group when using the sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Jake You don't have to take it to 50 yds, I think 15 will reveal the tale of the tape, or lack of tape. The only place I shoot over 7 yds without using the sights is on the shotgun range. I'll bet the ranch that if you shoot 6 rounds at 50 yds "over the slide" or without sights, what ever you want to call it, there won't be over 50% on the paper, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Is it recommended to shoot based on your muscle-memory, or is it better to always use your sights (except for really really close targets)? repeat. YOU CAN NOT SHOOT FASTER THAN YOU CAN SEE!!! You may be too lazy to pay attention to what they are doing, but that doesn't mean it is faster not to look at (through) them. It may be just blur on the target, but that is enough sometimes. I can shoot .14-.17 splits and see every shot 10-20 shots in a row. Just point shooting stuff isn't faster than seeing the shoots. You can (and will) miss targets 3 feet away if you don't see what you are doing. Observe what your sights are doing, if you can stay up with what your eyes are capable of seeing, you will be the greatest shooter in the world, even on the really, really close targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I had the dubious pleasure of shooting an entire stage, under pressure, without FS, at the Race gun nationals. FS simply broke off on shot #1! A few observations: i) Even w/o FS I was desperately looking for a fixed point on the slide to confirm my index and where the gun points. After about 5 rds found it in a whitish/greyish stripe where the FS had previously been. ii) It *really* slowed me down, mostly because the feel of the index and hold needed to be perfect to break a shot (there were lots of partial & N/S targets, no hoser stage), iii) I had all my hits, only one N/S iv) there were two pretty fast swingers at about 13 y at the very end. I spent 2 rds on one (felt good!) and 4 on the other (didn't feel so good). I had a total of 5 A and one C hits on them! Moral of the story: Yes, I can shoot without sights, but no, it is not faster for me, it's quite a bit slower! Knowing where your hits went, off the sights, is what enables you to shoot and hit fast! --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUN-RUNNER Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Useing your sights should be part of your muscle memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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