pivoproseem Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) I'm a high C Limited and Production shooter (almost bclass) Last time I shot El Prez, my splits were .14-.16 shooting my SP-01. I've been told before by a GM friend of mine to slow it down a bit to improve accuracy. I've been running a Tanfoglio Match .40...that I've been shooting much better than my SP-01. I noticed last night how much slack was in the overtravel and tightened it down a bit. I got to thinking, that perhaps a bit of overtravel is good, because it slows me down just enough to get a better sight picture rather than cranking away on the trigger as fast as I can. Anybody else set up their gun for more overtravel than needed for this purpose?? Edited March 26, 2009 by pivoproseem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adweisbe Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 You should be shooting in response to your sight picture not in response to how fast you can work the trigger mechanism. Tune the trigger mechanism to enable you to pull the trigger as fast as possible without disturbing your sight picture. How much overtravel is ideal is a matter of some discussion. I am also "high" C so take this with a grain of salt but I think what I am saying is pretty much conventional wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm a high C Limited and Production shooter (almost bclass) Last time I shot El Prez, my splits were .14-.16 shooting my SP-01. I've been told before by a GM friend of mine to slow it down a bit to improve accuracy. I've been running a Tanfoglio Match .40...that I've been shooting much better than my SP-01. I noticed last night how much slack was in the overtravel and tightened it down a bit. I got to thinking, that perhaps a bit of overtravel is good, because it slows me down just enough to get a better sight picture rather than cranking away on the trigger as fast as I can. Anybody else set up their gun for more overtravel than needed for this purpose?? What it is going to do is cause you to have trigger freeze when you get used to the trigger coming out a certain distance and now that distance is farther out. Leave you gun setup the same always and just see the sights return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockmatic Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm a high C Limited and Production shooter (almost bclass) Last time I shot El Prez, my splits were .14-.16 shooting my SP-01. I've been told before by a GM friend of mine to slow it down a bit to improve accuracy. I've been running a Tanfoglio Match .40...that I've been shooting much better than my SP-01. I noticed last night how much slack was in the overtravel and tightened it down a bit. I got to thinking, that perhaps a bit of overtravel is good, because it slows me down just enough to get a better sight picture rather than cranking away on the trigger as fast as I can. Anybody else set up their gun for more overtravel than needed for this purpose?? I have to agree that you want the trigger to reset as quick as possible: Trigger control and sight acquistion are two seperate things you must learn to synergize. By making your trigger "slack" is like putting 87 octane in your 71 Hemi-Cuda. 1. Bring the weapon to your vision not the other way around. 2. Front sight press! front sight press!; You should be able to rip off 2 shots with the same sight picture with practice and 3 with lots of practice. Best of luck in your shooting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have to say that I like a lot of pre and post. The gun also likes it and is less likely to have issues. I just took a class with Max and Travis and Max said the same thing... his Open gun has quite a bit of pre and over. JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Oh yeah, front sight, I use that on occasion! :D Edited March 26, 2009 by pivoproseem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have to say that I like a lot of pre and post. The gun also likes it and is less likely to have issues.I just took a class with Max and Travis and Max said the same thing... his Open gun has quite a bit of pre and over. JT I like a little pre and about the same post. I had a gun that zero, and I mean zero pre travel. The trigger break was nice but I never could get used to the zero pre travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph796 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Oh yeah, front sight, I use that on occasion! :D What is a front sight? If it ain't got a dot, it don't get shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 It doesn't matter. Leave the trigger be or mess with it if you want to, it really won't make a bit of difference. You need to pay attention to what the sights are telling you about the shooting, not hoping you'll see the sights by slowing down the trigger. What is your overall time on the El Prez? Splits on target are less than 1/4 of the equation in getting a fast El prez, and if you are not shooting it 2 or three points down, you are definitely not seeing what you need to. Brian had a good post about placing your attention when shooting, I'll see if I can dig it up. It may point you in the right direction. For now, go out and practice the El Prez again but shoot it so that anything other than an A is unacceptable. A single C and it's a failed run. See what you notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Here it is: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61709 For what you are after, try putting your attention on the movement of the sights, the whole movement. Or pay attention to the trigger press and see what you notice about how you pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thank goodness. I didn't even want to click into this thread. I am so happy to see all the advice being given to actually paying attention and executing the skills. ------------------------ Rusty, You aren't going to keep up with Matt Mink by pulling the trigger faster or slower. What you need is control. You will get that by learning the fundamentals and then executing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Thank goodness I rarely have to compete against Matt! Even though I did beat him on three stages at the last match...he was having a bad day. I've shot an El Prez in the 6 second range with 0 down... Really, I watch my sights, but the urge to wail away on the trigger sometimes overrides my that...I figure having a built in "brake" will make me take the time to get a better sight picture. It's just that I'm trying to nail down why I can shoot one gun better than the other with these variables, including the trigger setup. Sights weight/balance grip profile I'm thinking it may have more to do with the sights than anything. Thank goodness. I didn't even want to click into this thread. I am so happy to see all the advice being given to actually paying attention and executing the skills. ------------------------ Rusty, You aren't going to keep up with Matt Mink by pulling the trigger faster or slower. What you need is control. You will get that by learning the fundamentals and then executing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 What is a normal El prez time for you? The brake you are looking for is called visual patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Not having enough post travel will cause the sear nose to be ruined. It will hit the half cock and start following and doubling. Let your smith adjust and leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Ahhhhhh..... patience, not one of my strong points. It's not something I normally set up and practice, but I ran it just once a few weeks ago at 6.5sec with one C and that seemed kind of slow, but I think 7's are comfortable, with 8 second seemingly approaching stupid slow..if my memory serves me. I need to practice it more! What is a normal El prez time for you?The brake you are looking for is called visual patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) I've recently gone with more post travel. I took a class with TJ and he recommends more post rravel because the trigger will not bottom out on the frame during lock time and therefore one can be more aggressive on the trigger without the potential of affecting the gun's position on target. I tried it (backed the screw off about 1.5 turns +/-) and the gun feels better. Sights are still king, but this change does help me when shooting at speed. Another thought: As long as our vision is good and we understand the fundamentals of a sight picture, we will align the sights just fine. The truth is that we rarely misalign the sights so badly as to lead to a poor shot (unless we're coarsely point shooting and just hoping to lob a shot onto target). The problem comes in snatching at the trigger and trying to "freeze" our sight picture. Unfortunately, our physical nature causes us to pull the gun slightly off target or at least intended point of impact) faster than we can make the gun go off. This is why we use lighter triggers. We shorten our window of opportunity to pull the gun off target (light trigger = faster bang). I think that if there's a ratio of concentration focus in our style of shooting between sights and trigger, we should give about 85% to trigger and only about 15% to sights (I'm still absolutely saying that we clearly see the sights, clean up the alignment for each target etc. We need to let outselves trust that aspect of our shooting while shifting to our attention to working the trigger correctly). Great sight picture + yanked trigger = poor shoot. Average sight picture + smooth trigger press = generally really good shot. I think that the point shooters (Fist Fire etc) are really just trigger controllers, first and foremost. A little more post travel is a way of increasing our follow-through and decreasing the "it's time to flinch" message our brain is looking for. -MB Edited March 27, 2009 by Boyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Ahhhhhh..... patience, not one of my strong points.It's not something I normally set up and practice, but I ran it just once a few weeks ago at 6.5sec with one C and that seemed kind of slow, but I think 7's are comfortable, with 8 second seemingly approaching stupid slow..if my memory serves me. I need to practice it more! What is a normal El prez time for you?The brake you are looking for is called visual patience. Ok starting to get a picture now. Break it down for me, what are all your splits. Draw 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th reload 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Since I can guess what the answer will be, I'll say this. You are focused on the wrong things. I can shoot an El Prez a second faster than you and my splits on target would be twice as long, in the .30 to .35 range....and at that speed they better all be A's. At full speed, match speed, I can shoot it 2 seconds faster, down 2 or 3 points and still my splits on target will be in the .22 range. The difference is, I will do the transition times the same as the splits on target, and my draw and reload will be around 1.1. Here's the math... draw 1.2 2nd .3 3rd .3 4th .3 5th .3 6th .3 reload 1.2 8th .3 9th .3 10th .3 11th .3 12th .3 = 5.4 seconds Or draw 1.1 2nd .22 3rd .22 4th .22 5th .22 6th .22 reload 1.1 8th .22 9th .22 10th .22 11th .22 12th .22 = 4.4 seconds I usually run around 4.25 in a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 I need to put a timer on it when I go to the range this weekend...and I'll get back with you. I think my reload and draw are probably slower than yours. Since I can guess what the answer will be, I'll say this. You are focused on the wrong things.I can shoot an El Prez a second faster than you and my splits on target would be twice as long, in the .30 to .35 range....and at that speed they better all be A's. At full speed, match speed, I can shoot it 2 seconds faster, down 2 or 3 points and still my splits on target will be in the .22 range. The difference is, I will do the transition times the same as the splits on target, and my draw and reload will be around 1.1. Here's the math... draw 1.2 2nd .3 3rd .3 4th .3 5th .3 6th .3 reload 1.2 8th .3 9th .3 10th .3 11th .3 12th .3 = 5.4 seconds Or draw 1.1 2nd .22 3rd .22 4th .22 5th .22 6th .22 reload 1.1 8th .22 9th .22 10th .22 11th .22 12th .22 = 4.4 seconds I usually run around 4.25 in a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now