S&W PC945 for IDPA & IPSC?

[johnnywitt]

Anybody see anybody use a S&W PC945 competitively? I'm just wondering how this gun stacks up in competition. I have one and shoot it pretty well. It's just like a 1911 except for the grip angle is slightly less. I guess leather is going to be a problem. Probably have to go full custom.

Thanks for any feedback on this weapon.

[Steve J]

I just went to the S&W site to check the weight. OMG they are overpriced. Anyway, S&W lists the weight as 40.5 oz. It does not say if that is with or without a magazine. You only get 41 oz with an empty magazine in IDPA CDP Division, so it might not make weight. Obviously, since it is not a 1911 it would not be legal in USPSA "Single Stack" Division. You could use it in L-10, but I don't know if they make 10-round magazines for it. Or you could just shoot it with a handicap in L-10 or Limited.

If you want to shoot both IDPA and USPSA with a production style gun, you'll be far better off with a 1911. Depending on the caliber, you could then shoot CDP & SS major or ESP & SS minor. You could also consider a striker fired pistol and shoot SSP & Production. Both those options are popular platforms with commonly available parts and accessories. I don't think you can say that about the S&W 945.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Steve J

[G-ManBart]

Anybody see anybody use a S&W PC945 competitively? I'm just wondering how this gun stacks up in competition. I have one and shoot it pretty well. It's just like a 1911 except for the grip angle is slightly less. I guess leather is going to be a problem. Probably have to go full custom.

Thanks for any feedback on this weapon.

I've never seen one being used, but I doubt it would be legal for Single Stack as the grip angle is different and the rules say "their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning". You'd probably have to get a ruling to be sure, but I'd bet against it.

You could use it for Limited-10 if S&W ever submitted a letter to NROI stating that over 500 have been produced. It wouldn't be allowed in Production and it wouldn't be competitive in Open or Limited. R,

[Steve J]

Anybody see anybody use a S&W PC945 competitively? I'm just wondering how this gun stacks up in competition. I have one and shoot it pretty well. It's just like a 1911 except for the grip angle is slightly less. I guess leather is going to be a problem. Probably have to go full custom.

Thanks for any feedback on this weapon.

I've never seen one being used, but I doubt it would be legal for Single Stack as the grip angle is different and the rules say "their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning". You'd probably have to get a ruling to be sure, but I'd bet against it.

You could use it for Limited-10 if S&W ever submitted a letter to NROI stating that over 500 have been produced. It wouldn't be allowed in Production and it wouldn't be competitive in Open or Limited. R,

G-ManBart. It has already been ruled on. The S&W 945 is not and has never been a 1911, and therefore is not legal in USPSA SS Div. It's in one of the many SS Div threads on this forum.

[G-ManBart]

Anybody see anybody use a S&W PC945 competitively? I'm just wondering how this gun stacks up in competition. I have one and shoot it pretty well. It's just like a 1911 except for the grip angle is slightly less. I guess leather is going to be a problem. Probably have to go full custom.

Thanks for any feedback on this weapon.

I've never seen one being used, but I doubt it would be legal for Single Stack as the grip angle is different and the rules say "their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning". You'd probably have to get a ruling to be sure, but I'd bet against it.

You could use it for Limited-10 if S&W ever submitted a letter to NROI stating that over 500 have been produced. It wouldn't be allowed in Production and it wouldn't be competitive in Open or Limited. R,

G-ManBart. It has already been ruled on. The S&W 945 is not and has never been a 1911, and therefore is not legal in USPSA SS Div. It's in one of the many SS Div threads on this forum.

I thought I'd read that, but didn't find it in a quick search....I was sure the grip angle alone would keep it from being legal. Thanks for the confirmation. R,

[johnnywitt]

Ok, too bad for me. I've had this gun for 11 years now and I like it and shoot well with it.

I guess I'll probably sell it and get a 1911 single stack.

Any reccomendations in the <2k category in a 9mm, or will I have to spend a little more to get a top of the line pistol. I shoot subguns and I'm going to have to start reloading. It would be easier to standardize on one main pistol caliber.

[wooddog]

I love mine! It's a well build gun and very reliable, shoots softer than any of my 1911's.

Don't get me wrong though, my 1911's shoot well too.

I use it in limited 10 and CDP, though I have not shot a major IDPA match in two years. The last time I shot it at the S&W Winter Nationals, it passed all the IDPA "tests" There are 10 round mags available for it for lim10.

Yes it is pricey, but if you own it... shoot it!

[wooddog]

Me in Reno Infinity open Lim 10

[wooddog]

Me at S&W Winter Nationals CDP

[Steve J]

I would have to agree with Wooddog. If you like it and shoot it well, then get into the sport with it. Shoot some matches with it first. You may decide to stick with it or you may not. If Wooddog shot his in a sanctioned match, yours ought to be just fine. Weight it before you enter a sanctioned match with it though.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Steve J

[G-ManBart]

Any reccomendations in the <2k category in a 9mm, or will I have to spend a little more to get a top of the line pistol. I shoot subguns and I'm going to have to start reloading. It would be easier to standardize on one main pistol caliber.

If you're going to shoot any USPSA matches in Single Stack, don't get a 9mm. You need at least .40 for Major scoring.

In the sub $2K range you can get a very nice pistol or spend a touch more and get a full custom. Spending $2500+ for any production 1911 might be okay if you're worried about resale value, but it won't be as good as a full custom that you can get for the same money.

I needed a Single Stack legal gun in short order so I bought an STI Trojan in .40 (already load .40 for my Limited gun) and sent it off with all new fire control parts (and guide rod, better ambi safeties etc) for a trigger job and reliability package and the result has worked very well for me. Still, it's not a custom gun and never will be one. For what we do, and the amount that I run that gun in matches, I'm okay with that. It'll win the Nationals in the right hands and I probably have something like $1600-1700 in it.

So, you can spend a little less, have it tweaked by a smith and also wind up with a very nice setup.

[johnnywitt]

Since I only have the S&W 945 and a HK P7, both of which are not really all that suitable for competition. It looks like most accomplished shooters end up with an S_I gun, or the Glocks. How many accomplished shooters out there are doing well with a Glock. I can get a LEO discount on them so it would be a lot less money. I just want to start out with a decent gun that won't hold me back too much as I improve. This would be the time now to decide on a 1911 platform, or the Glock. Both fit my hand.

[jasond]

You shoot it well? That's all you need in this game.

I'd shoot L10 with it until you're sure the gun is holding you up. Major scoring or a production legal gun would be better, but hey, if you like it, why change? A different gun isn't going to make you suddenly awesome or anything, at least it's never worked for me!

I've handled them but never shot one, they look very well built.

[G-ManBart]

How many accomplished shooters out there are doing well with a Glock. I can get a LEO discount on them so it would be a lot less money. I just want to start out with a decent gun that won't hold me back too much as I improve. This would be the time now to decide on a 1911 platform, or the Glock. Both fit my hand.

There are plenty of folks using a Glock successfully in Production, Limited-10 and Limited....not many folks use them in Open, but it can be done. Hey, Dave Sevigny has won a handful of U.S. championships using a Glock so it can't be a bad choice!

There's also a growing number of folks using Smith M&P's in all of the same divisions, if you're a Smith fan. I just bought an M&P Pro (9mm) from Buds Police Supply for $500 delivered, using their LEO discount. I'm only going to use it for Production as I already have a setup for Limited and L-10, but the standard M&P in .40 would do great in Lim, L-10 and Production as well.

[Revopop]

If you have a P7, you could shoot that in Production. You wouldn't think so, because it really is a single action, but last time I looked it's on the list for Production. I've never shot one, (I'd love too) but apparently the M13 is a pretty OK gun for Production, what with the single action trigger, 10 round mags that are very tapered at the top, ergonomics, etc., but by design they do become pretty hot if you shoot a lot of rounds in quick succession. The M8 and PSP versions would be harder to speed reload with the skinny mags, but that's not really that hard. The PSP's Euro heel mag release is probably a bit less than fast, though.

I would definitely agree that if you have a gun you like and shoot well, don't run off and sell just because the internets told you too.

[MemphisMechanic]

I would be choosing between a Glock 34, and a Smith M&P in your shoes. Especially if you don't load your own ammo.

M&Ps are currently running $399 if you qualify for their LEO or active-Mil discount.

[johnnywitt]

I would be choosing between a Glock 34, and a Smith M&P in your shoes. Especially if you don't load your own ammo.

M&Ps are currently running $399 if you qualify for their LEO or active-Mil discount.

Those M&P's are a DA Pistol, right? I have a hard time between the transition from DA to SA (I sold all 3 of my German SIG 228's because of this recently). Unless like the CZ's you can carry cocked and locked.

I shoot a 41 at my house, usually with an Aimpoint Micro for an optic on a Bully Barrel, or just the 7" iron sight barrel. I also shoot a Ruger MKII 22/45 a lot. I think I'm probably gonna sell the 945 and just get a 1911. I'm used to that grip angle and a SA trigger. It's gonna be spendy but I think I'll get a 9mm single stack to start with since I'm going to be reloading pretty soon. I want to get my calibers down to 9mm,5.56/.223 and maybe .45ACP to shoot Major. It's hard to beat a "11 style pistol.

Anyhow, I sure appreciate all the advice that I've gotten for an "FNG".

[Steve J]

S&W M&Ps are a short stroke striker fired action like Springfield's XD and Glocks.

[TonyT]

Anybody see anybody use a S&W PC945 competitively? I'm just wondering how this gun stacks up in competition. I have one and shoot it pretty well. It's just like a 1911 except for the grip angle is slightly less. I guess leather is going to be a problem. Probably have to go full custom.

Thanks for any feedback on this weapon.

I use a S&W 945PC for bullseye psitol and steel with a Pardini speed holster. I never considered using it for IDPA or USPSA since I use a S&W M&P9 or S&W 99 for IDPA and USPSA.

[G-ManBart]

It's gonna be spendy but I think I'll get a 9mm single stack to start with since I'm going to be reloading pretty soon. I want to get my calibers down to 9mm,5.56/.223 and maybe .45ACP to shoot Major.

You'd really be limiting yourself with a 9mm 1911. It's a great choice for IDPA, but a poor choice for anything in USPSA. A 1911 in .40 would be a better compromise. It'd work for both perfectly. You can get minor ammo for IDPA matches and major ammo for USPSA matches. .40 minor shoots as soft as 9mm minor (some feel it's softer) and the cost difference isn't a huge deal. R,

[johnnywitt]

The more I look at the M&P Pro's, the more I like it. I shoot SMG a lot (I shoot at my home), mostly with a .22 conversion kit and I'm going to gear up for reloading 9mm en masse. I'll Probably be the idiot that starts off with a 1050. I've pretty much settled on 9mm and .223/5.56 as my go to calibers. Getting ready to sell a couple of DS Arms Tactical FAL's that I bought a couple years ago and never even fired.

Can't you get an M&P Pro in .40 and buy a 9mm conversion for it, just like the SIGS?

[G-ManBart]

The more I look at the M&P Pro's, the more I like it. I shoot SMG a lot (I shoot at my home), mostly with a .22 conversion kit and I'm going to gear up for reloading 9mm en masse. I'll Probably be the idiot that starts off with a 1050. I've pretty much settled on 9mm and .223/5.56 as my go to calibers. Getting ready to sell a couple of DS Arms Tactical FAL's that I bought a couple years ago and never even fired.

Can't you get an M&P Pro in .40 and buy a 9mm conversion for it, just like the SIGS?

They haven't released an M&P Pro in .40 yet....if they had, I'd already have one on order! I bought the Pro in 9 and it's a really nice shooting piece, but I sure hope they come out with it in .4 eventually. For anybody that shoots USPSA and reloads, .40 is the closest thing to a universal cartridge....it's a bit more expensive than 9 to reload because of the price of bullets, but that's about it. If you have any friends that are LE you can likely get free brass as well. It works great in Prod, Lim, L-10 and Single Stack...not quite as well in Open, but it's not a bad choice there if you're not super competitive. It's not my "favorite" cartridge but it sure does cover a lot of ground.

Hey, nothing wrong with starting out with a 1050...if you're comfortable learning to set one up and use it, that'll save you a lot of time. R,

[johnnywitt]

The more I look at the M&P Pro's, the more I like it. I shoot SMG a lot (I shoot at my home), mostly with a .22 conversion kit and I'm going to gear up for reloading 9mm en masse. I'll Probably be the idiot that starts off with a 1050. I've pretty much settled on 9mm and .223/5.56 as my go to calibers. Getting ready to sell a couple of DS Arms Tactical FAL's that I bought a couple years ago and never even fired.

Can't you get an M&P Pro in .40 and buy a 9mm conversion for it, just like the SIGS?

They haven't released an M&P Pro in .40 yet....if they had, I'd already have one on order! I bought the Pro in 9 and it's a really nice shooting piece, but I sure hope they come out with it in .4 eventually. For anybody that shoots USPSA and reloads, .40 is the closest thing to a universal cartridge....it's a bit more expensive than 9 to reload because of the price of bullets, but that's about it. If you have any friends that are LE you can likely get free brass as well. It works great in Prod, Lim, L-10 and Single Stack...not quite as well in Open, but it's not a bad choice there if you're not super competitive. It's not my "favorite" cartridge but it sure does cover a lot of ground.

Hey, nothing wrong with starting out with a 1050...if you're comfortable learning to set one up and use it, that'll save you a lot of time. R,

Thanks G-man for the help. I might have to take another look at the .40. I'll probably just start off in IDPA, though. USPSA seems a little more stringent in the rule dept. Need to get some plates going for my house range. I've got the usual spinners and such, but I need to get some good plates for pistol and smg, along with some gravity reset targets for 5.56.

[G-ManBart]

Thanks G-man for the help. I might have to take another look at the .40. I'll probably just start off in IDPA, though. USPSA seems a little more stringent in the rule dept. Need to get some plates going for my house range. I've got the usual spinners and such, but I need to get some good plates for pistol and smg, along with some gravity reset targets for 5.56.

Yeah, .40 is pretty hard to ignore if you're trying to limit what you load for....it just does a lot of stuff well. I just thought about it and I load for at least 7 pistol cartridges alone....yikes!

It kinda depends. IDPA is far more restrictive on the rules about actually shooting...retention reloads, engaging targets in certain orders, use of cover and failure to do right etc. USPSA has a bit more variety in divisions and that causes more rules in some ways, but they're generally there to keep the playing field reasonably equal.

Take a look at Law Enforcement Targets for steel. I bought some 8" round plates from them a few months back and they had great prices compared with all the other places I've checked. I haven't shot them a bunch yet, but my 38SC load (115gr JHP at over 1500fps) puts almost no mark on them...maybe just a dimple, so I think they're going to be pretty durable.

[johnnywitt]

Thanks G-man for the help. I might have to take another look at the .40. I'll probably just start off in IDPA, though. USPSA seems a little more stringent in the rule dept. Need to get some plates going for my house range. I've got the usual spinners and such, but I need to get some good plates for pistol and smg, along with some gravity reset targets for 5.56.

Yeah, .40 is pretty hard to ignore if you're trying to limit what you load for....it just does a lot of stuff well. I just thought about it and I load for at least 7 pistol cartridges alone....yikes!

It kinda depends. IDPA is far more restrictive on the rules about actually shooting...retention reloads, engaging targets in certain orders, use of cover and failure to do right etc. USPSA has a bit more variety in divisions and that causes more rules in some ways, but they're generally there to keep the playing field reasonably equal.

Take a look at Law Enforcement Targets for steel. I bought some 8" round plates from them a few months back and they had great prices compared with all the other places I've checked. I haven't shot them a bunch yet, but my 38SC load (115gr JHP at over 1500fps) puts almost no mark on them...maybe just a dimple, so I think they're going to be pretty durable.

Looks like thats the place for buying steel targets. Are you just shooting the standard plates with your hot 38SC load. Or, do you buy the 500 plate for double duty handgun/carbine?