Safe Burned.

[Kyle O]

A friend of mine recently lost his lake house in a fire. He had a Liberty Gunsafe (don't know the exact model), and it was one of the higher end models.

He said that it came with a good fire rating, but couldn't remember exactly.

He had to get a locksmith to basically "crack the safe" for him, so he could inspect the contents.

He lost almost everything!

there were about 2 long guns out of 8 that were partially salvaged (wood burned up, and blueing lost) and everything else was totaled!

several handguns, longbow, compound bow, cameras, and some paperwork was all burned up.

The good of it all.......

The locksmith recommended a "Document Safe". I don't have any details, but my friend gave me the locksmiths # if I wanted to follow up with a better safe in the future.

(We both had Liberty safes, now only me)

The locksmith told him that the companies that offer these don't sell them retail, but deliver and install them like for banks & such.

The price was supposedly less $ for a far better and safer safe.

Although they are not as pretty as a gleaming shiny safe with a dear head or a fish on it, "pure function" was what he was telling him really mattered. (apparently it does!)

I was taken in by this conversation, and thought I'd share it here. The good feeling I had about having my investments protected by a fire safe isn't that good anymore.

Anyone have pearls to add, or an experience with a burned safe??? Please share, I haven't googled it yet, but I thought I'd plant the seed here first to see what we know.

thanks,

kyle

[hitman]

I know a guy who had his house burn also, however his stuff came out fine.

His was a double fire rated Liberty but he built a closet around it out of concrete backer board.

Fire investigator told him that saved his safe and contents.

I was told by a safe salesman that most comercial safes dont have carpet interior and have a higher fire rating paritally due to the construction method.

Dont know about cost but he said the ones he sold were air / water tight, did not come with moveable interiors but there were several interiors that could be used for firearms.

He also told me drilling or trying to drill a hole (for a dehumidifiyer) would void there coverage.

I say check it out cant hurt to check into it further.

[BNorth]

What was the estimated time the safe was in extreme heat from the fire? I think the Liberty safes are rated at 1 hour at 1200 degrees before paper starts to char (depending on model). Longer or hotter and you'll have problems.

[AlamoShooter]

Fire ratings are like Water Resistant watches. You can heat any safe hot enough and "long" enough to cook the inside.

even the most expensive watch can go deep enough for the pressure to finally break it.

If the safe is near the center of the home and all the walls and roof cave in on it and Cook even after the fire is out. with sustained heat anything that can burn will burn.

As all that Cannon safe using in its door is a piece of 5/8" fire code sheet rock and thin carpet over a thin plywood.

After and hour of high heat the inside will begin to burn 2 to 3 hrs of not cooling down and I will end up with trash and ash.

get a Sprinkler system.

The Lobbyist are adding big dollars to the cost of new homes with required sprinkler systems

[bigbrowndog]

House fires typically do not sustain temperatures over 1000 degrees for longer than a minute, if they did no firefighter alive could do their job. That said consider how many dinners have been ruined by too much 350 degree heat. protecting your belongings in a fire is much like Nuclear protection,............TIME, DISTANCE, and SHIELDING the more of those that you have the better your protection.

A fire rating can be increased simply by using sheetrock to line or surround the safe. double thickness sheetrock is what is used to attain necessary code ratings for life safety of 1 hour.

trapr

[MtBob]

depends on how soon suppression begins. In a test I read about online, the temps (in the room where the fire started)reached 1200 degrees F before 2 minutes had passed after ignition. Temps stayed above 1000 f until supression started at 5.8 minutes.

He should contact Liberty for what his safe was rated at.

quote from Liberty's website:

In a home fire, the peak temperature and duration of the fire can vary depending upon the size of the home, the materials used to construct the home, the response time of firefighters, etc. It is estimated that the typical peak temperature in a home fire ranges between 800 to 1200 degrees Fahrenheit. The typical time for firefighting authorities to bring a home fire into containment is estimated at 15 to 30 minutes.

Paper chars at approximately 402°F. To protect paper documents, the internal temperature of a safe must remain below 350°F while exposed to the conditions of the typical home fire. Thus at a minimum, a safe should provide enough fire resistance to keep the maximum internal temperature of the safe below 350°F, when exposed to external temperatures of 1200° for 30 minutes.

Liberty safes are tested and certified by Omega Point Laboratories, an independent, nationally recognized company which conducts fire tests simulating home fire conditions. In an Omega Point fire test the furnace temperature builds to 1200°F, typical home fire intensity, in ten minutes and is maintained there, exposing the safe to the full heat and intensity of a simulated home fire during the test. The test is over when one of the nine computer monitored temperature probes inside the safe rises 275°F above the ambient temperature - paper chars at 402°F . The results are a rating that is a real measure of a safe’s fire endurance under conditions simulating a house fire, not just a factory test. Simply put, Liberty safes are built to pass a rigorous, realistic, fire test. That’s why a Liberty Safe with a 45 minute Omega Point fire rating can achieve a one hour and twenty-nine minute rating when a competitve fire testing method is used. For more information on fire testing, visit Omega Point Laboratories at www.opl.com or Underwriters Laboratories at www.ul.com. CAUTION: All safes are susceptible to heat and fire damage when exposed to high enough temperatures for extended periods of time. Thus, no safe is actually “fire proof,” only fire resistant.

Edited February 6, 2009 by MtBob

[Kyle O]

The point of my thread was not to dis on liberty safes. I own one and am happy with it.

Also, I have limited details about the actual incident. He just came in my store and was telling me about it, so I figured it may help someone out here.

Out at the Lake, it may be that the fire dept. never even showed up (no one around to call)

I just don't know enough about his safe/house/layout to make any assumptions about the specific incident, but the whole "Document Safe would be better" thing was what had me paying attention, and was what I wanted to share here.

He did mention the numbers 3000*F for 3 hours rating for document safes, but I have not verified this.

[atbarr]

double thickness sheetrock is what is used to attain necessary code ratings for life safety of 1 hour.

Great idea!

Thanks,

A.T.

P.S. How would you suggest I apply them?

[ChrisMcCracken]

I picture a 2x4 aluminum joist frame with sheet rock screwed onto the outside. How to cover the door is another matter. Make a large hinged door with the same thickness sheetrock. If you were really into it you could probably make the frame with some air space and inject foam insulation or something between the sheet rock and the safe to go the extra mile.

I could see moisture being a big problem with document safes that can't have a hole included for a plug in rod. You'd have to use re-usable desiccant, however long that lasts for.

-Chris

Edited February 7, 2009 by Erucolindon