Ramas Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 "Slow down" for second shot is bad advice, and it has nothing to do with poster's problem. I should look for problems in grip, stance, trigering an follow thgrough... Who said shooting is easy!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Something else to think about. I am the worlds worst about hanging with the second shot. My eyes will leave in search of the next target in the middle of the second shot. The gun wants to follow the eyes. Make sure you are seeing the second shot and not looking somewhere else. Might not be a trigger control issue at all. Can you say "Alpha, Mike"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 "Slow down" for second shot is bad advice, and it has nothing to do with poster's problem. I should look for problems in grip, stance, trigering an follow thgrough... Who said shooting is easy!? If the poster had problems in grip, stance or trigger control the first shot would often be bad as well. He's simply trying to shoot faster than he can see and isn't following through. If he does take a little more time by slowing down the problem should stop. He can then speed up as he learns to see faster and follow through properly. If you can't do it right at a certain speed it's time to slow down, figure out what's going wrong and fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If you can shoot 25's and shoot A's you can shoot fast enough to win the Nationals in the iron sight divisions, even most B class shooters CAN shoot 25's accurately if they would just let it happen.... Oh yeah. I am absolutely convinced that most shooters actually have much higher skill than they realize. It's the getting out of the way and letting it manifest that's the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Something else to think about. I am the worlds worst about hanging with the second shot. My eyes will leave in search of the next target in the middle of the second shot. The gun wants to follow the eyes. Make sure you are seeing the second shot and not looking somewhere else. Might not be a trigger control issue at all. A key to this, I find, is to relax the eyesight away from the "hard front sight focus" concept so that you can see the sights and the next target at the same time. This gets you away from having to choose one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You all are gonna over-load our new member. Lots of great advice has been posted. Lets let some of it sink in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If the poster had problems in grip, stance or trigger control the first shot would often be bad as well. He's simply trying to shoot faster than he can see and isn't following through. If he does take a little more time by slowing down the problem should stop. He can then speed up as he learns to see faster and follow through properly.If you can't do it right at a certain speed it's time to slow down, figure out what's going wrong and fix it. I think we're talking about different things here. And I realize that's my fault. The real question here is how a comparatively new competitor can work on a specific, basic problem. Whereas I'm taking it to the Nth degree into a philosophical discussion of "How do you, ultimately, get as good as possible?" This of course, gets us into one of the great questions of the ages: "Is it better to start out as an accurate shooter, then push the speed while maintaining accuracy, or it better to push the speed first, then bring your accuracy up to the level of your speed?" This may not be the common opinion, but I will go on record as saying that, once a decent level of skill at stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control and followthrough is attained, you're best off pushing the speed beyond your ability to hit, then staying there while working to bring your accuracy up to the level of your speed. And I'm not saying that as someone who never tried it the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think there's a ton of great advice here. Technique with how you're holding the gun, pulling the trigger, and driving the gun through recoil. Here's, IMO, one of the best kept secrets in action pistol shooting. With a SS .45 ACP, if you don't try and control the gun through any intentional action, and you just let the recoil rock the thing back and then let the slide moving forward slam the whole gun forward what you'll realize is that this thing works pretty well all by itself. Please know I understand you can't have a crazy relaxed attitude about the gun's action, but I'd ask that you recognize the gun will get back on target pretty close without much effort from you. So you don't have to steer this thing too much. You do have to trust. Like kids, you've got to be trusting but firm. You know how when you first started driving a car and how you wandered in the lanes and had a hard time judging hills or turns or anything else? And, at least for me, I spent so much time over steering the car. At some point I realized that for the most part the damn car would stay in the middle of the lane if I'd just quit jacking with it. And any adjustments really were quite subtle. Same with shooting. The other trick is just watching the sight. I mean one trick in this gig is understanding what is happening when you pull the trigger. The port hole you have to this is the sights and what takes place there. The only person you'll be accountable to is yourself on this one is you, so to that end, the more honest the better. Know if you can account for what happens with the sights when you pull the trigger. Not even in a rushed sense. On a single shot do you know what happens? Are you an active participant or a casual observer? What should you be? It's always interesting to me to ask one simple question. When the shot goes off, are your eyes open or closed? Do you know? It's a great first step in understanding what you're seeing. This is, in no small meaning of the word, a journey. I once set about to try and keep my head and eyes still when trying to strike a golf ball. I focused, and focused and focused and yet this problem continued to persist. Finally I realized I needed something to look for. So I chose something, I chose to see if I could look for, and actually see the club head striking the ball. It was a good drill and really started helping me make progress. I was satisfied. But I kept at it because the honest to God truth was while the drill helped, I still couldn't honestly say I'd seen what I was looking for. It took me disregarding the actual results of the drill and understanding that I wasn't where I wanted to be to realize there was more to see. And one day it happened. Bigger than day. It was momentous, and actually quite stunning. It made a monumental impact to me on acknowledging what I could see if I just allowed it to happen. As Duane points out though, we often times get in our own way. The two shots are an interesting blend of speed and seperation. One has to recognize that you have to see all that you know how to see and need to see in order to insure all shots are where you want. Both of them. And yet you also must acknowledge that the time between the two shots has got to be as minimal as possible. While these two goals aren't entirely in sync with each other, please know that they don't conflict each other as well. You can accomplish both. A little practice, patience, and discipline. It doesn't happen overnight for anyone. Brian has always said it best. Pay attention. The more you see, the more you'll know. That knowledge is experience. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpetrone Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have been sporadically shooting USPSA matches on and off for a few years now. I love the shooting but with four kids and job that requires randomly scheduled hours it is hard for me to attend regularly. My questions is can anyone give me some pointers on how to improve getting my sight picture back after the first shot? I have the luxury of walking out my back door and shooting at paper. Up until now I have been shooting a single stack 45. A couple weeks ago I bought an SV limited gun in 40. I had the suggestion that the decrease in mag changes will help my times tremendously. The second area of trouble that I have is that dang second second shot. Does anyone have a suggestion on physical strength exercises, gun holding techniques, shooting exercises that will help me keep on target or get back on target more quickly? Thanks in advnace! Sounds like you are trying to shoot fast splits, but are not tracking the sight properly. Shooting fast double taps requires a gun set up properly for the load. This means you need to try different recoil and or mainspring combinations to get the sight to track smoothly and consistently. Your grip also determines how well the gun will track. The grip pressure should be roughly 60% with the support hand and 40% with the strong hand. Make sure you are not squeezing the grip on your second shot in anticipation of the recoil. This would cause shots low and left in the C ring for a right handed shooter. Double taps are a misnomer. You are not simply slapping the trigger, you are seeing the sight picture, even if it is a "flash sight picture" for two separate shots. To improve my sight tracking technique, I would do "Bill Drills" at 7, 10, and 15 yards. The varying distances will determine how much sight picture is required for the given distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Jack, Another excellent, thoughtful, and thought provoking post. Thank you. Duane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Jack,Another excellent, thoughtful, and thought provoking post. Thank you. Duane You're too generous. All I really was trying to get to is that sometimes we wonder why we're not seeing what others are seeing. All the while never contemplating our eyes may be closed. And that in this game small tweaks to what you're doing often times go a long ways. I wish I written it like that. A lot shorter and to the point! Thanks Duane! Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Yer welcome, Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Mikes Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Thanks everyone for their input and suggestions. I have been trying some of the suggestions and have been practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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