Duane Thomas Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 The joys of Yiddish hahaha I gotta find that one. It's a fairly awesome book, actually. Rosen takes the same approach as used by Ambrose Bierce in The Devil's Dictionary of providing a "dictionary" that lists only the words he wants to address, then providing humorous definitions. But in Rosen's case, the definitions are literate and witty, whereas in "Bitter" Bierce's case they were literate and....bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thanks for the recommendation, I guess I will be making a trip to the library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Did you hear about the guy that loaned a fellow shooter his AR? Everything was fine until the kid was at the range shooting the rifle and it doubled a time or two. A phone call from spectators and the BATFE was all over both the kid and the owner of the rifle claiming that it was a machine gun since it would fire more than 1 round with a single pull of the trigger. The guy was arrested and released on bond even though the ATF could not replicate the problem without some "forceful manipulation" of the rifle. I think it is still an on going battle. They seized all of the mans guns in short order too and of course he is on some kind of home arrest or some crap.You wanna see how fast the BATFE will react to something, keep a jug of empty gunpowder in your back seat and toss a piece of PVC pipe back there with it. I'm really not seeing the logic of the argument. You seem intent on equating storage of smokeless powder, which is completely legal, with owning an unlicensed weapon capable of fully automatic fire which is not. This is a false analogy. I mean, I'm willing to keep discussing this with you, but you have to give me something more sensible than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thanks for the recommendation, I guess I will be making a trip to the library. Interested person + great book, put together by me! My good deed for the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) I never kept more than 10,000 primers or 20 lbs of powder (usually) before I started reloading for competition. Now that I buy powder in 4 and 8 lb quantities and primers in sleeves of 5000, its hard not to go over that. Fortunately, I burn it up pretty fast so I don't have exceedingly large quantities on hand at any given time. If I got rid of the old partially used cans of rifle powder, I could probably stay under 20 lbs. all the time. I think I will inventory my supplies and see just how much I have. If anyone wants to stockpile supplies I can understand that, but be careful about local laws and storage. Don't ask don't tell might work fine until there's a fire. What will you say when the authorities want to know why your house went up like a shuttle launch? Edited January 3, 2009 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Again, smokeless powder burns so fast, and its effects spread so little, I just can't see that as a realistic concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I hear you Duane, but in a fire I would be more concerned about the primers than the powder. However, the powder will burn fast and hot. Years ago, I saw the result when a local gun shop burned down. The fire department wouldn't go near it. They just evacuated the area and let it burn. The heat that was generated was phenomenal. It melted the globes of street lamps hundreds of feet away. Granted, a handloader wouldn't have as much flammable material on hand as a dealer (probably), but it's still not something I would take lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Wow. Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Did you hear about the guy that loaned a fellow shooter his AR? Everything was fine until the kid was at the range shooting the rifle and it doubled a time or two. A phone call from spectators and the BATFE was all over both the kid and the owner of the rifle claiming that it was a machine gun since it would fire more than 1 round with a single pull of the trigger. The guy was arrested and released on bond even though the ATF could not replicate the problem without some "forceful manipulation" of the rifle. I think it is still an on going battle. They seized all of the mans guns in short order too and of course he is on some kind of home arrest or some crap.You wanna see how fast the BATFE will react to something, keep a jug of empty gunpowder in your back seat and toss a piece of PVC pipe back there with it. I'm really not seeing the logic of the argument. You seem intent on equating storage of smokeless powder, which is completely legal, with owning an unlicensed weapon capable of fully automatic fire which is not. This is a false analogy. I mean, I'm willing to keep discussing this with you, but you have to give me something more sensible than this. I must have done a poor job of explaining myself then. Guy loans friend perfectly legal AR-15 rifle. Kid, being a kid, is kind of abusive with the rifle. Kid is at range shooting AR rifle commando style and the gun doubles, twice, because of a malfunction. Spectators call ATF and report a nonlicensed MG. ATF questions kid who says he was loaned the rifle. ATF goes and arrests owner of malfunctioning rifle. ATF spends weeks trying to make the rifle double, almost unsuccessfully, but eventually they learn to manipulate the rifle in such a manner that they can cause it to double ONE time (finally). ATF arrests man and seizes all of his guns. I don't know where you got that it was an illegal rifle, I never said that, and it is still up to the BATFE to prove it was. I said it was a rifle that malfunctioned. That malfunction made the rifle fire 2 rounds with a single pull of the trigger, which is illegal according to NFA. The man was a law abiding citizen. I'll look and see if I can find a link to one of the many news reports. Even the media was on the guys side. It is one of the more popular cases in recent years. I know a gentleman that is a member of this forum that has an STI that will double like a G18. The gun is malfunctioning much like the gentleman's rifle previously mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I googled: "man arrested for AR rifle that malfunctioned" and got a hobuncha hits. Do you like Lou Dobbs? This is not internet gossip, watch the news for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Part 2 is important too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Duane, it's s good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read that line the first time. I would definately have blown something out of my nose. One of the best signature lines I've ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I must have done a poor job of explaining myself then.....AR-15, etc., etc. And this all has....exactly what to do with the perfect legality, per the BATFE, of storing smokeless powder? It's not that you didn't explain sufficently what had happened, it's just that it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic under discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 What this reminds me of is a conversation I had years ago with a friend who was on personal terms with the agent in charge of our nearest big city ATF office. My friend asked the agent, "So, really, how much does the average, decent guy who's into guns have to worry about the ATF f*#king with him?" The agent replied, "Greg, if you were to call our office today and tell us, 'My next door neighbor has a fully automatic, stolen M60 in his garage, I've seen the gun, and it's there right now'....it would be six months before we could respond. We're just that busy." Especially today, in the post-9/11 world, the BATFE is incredibly overworked. Even if they wanted to screw with someone over something piddly (and why would they?), they simply don't have the time. This sort of useless make-work is the last thing a BATFE agent needs in their life. Add to this the not-inconsequential fact that what we're discussing here isn't even a crime, and you can see how I can't really get too wrapped around the axle over the idea that the BATFE is going to drive an M1 Abrams through my front wall over my 8-pound canisters of Titegroup, Clays, etc. It was a response to your above statements. To tell people the ATF is too busy to react to a violation of the possession of an illegal firearm is total crap. I think your friend was feeding you a heavy dosage. If the fire marshal has a problem with the amount of explosives you have in your home in relation to firearms ammunition components, who do you think enforces the laws? My point is, including the comment by my neighbor the Judge, saying "I didn't know it was illegal" is not going to keep you from getting fined and possibly convicted of a crime. Period, end of story. Know your local laws and abide by them or suffer the consequences if anything were ever to happen and you get caught. I try to keep the Judge next door a fresh supply of Grouper. Did I mention I love good debate/conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 My point is, including the comment by my neighbor the Judge, saying "I didn't know it was illegal" is not going to keep you from getting fined and possibly convicted of a crime. Unless of course what you're doing is perfectly legal. This is the first time you have mentioned "local ordinances". Heretofore it's been the BATFE we had to worry about - and, according to BATFE regs, there is no limit on the amount of primers and smokeless powder you may possess. And, as much as you enjoy debating, as a moderator I would prefer to keep this discussion from now on limited to a factual discussion of the relevant laws. So, to this point we have determined: BATFE regs, no limit on the amount of smokeless powder or primers you may possess. Local ordinances may differ. Does anyone else have anything relevant to add, or should I count this one answered and lock it down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 My point is, including the comment by my neighbor the Judge, saying "I didn't know it was illegal" is not going to keep you from getting fined and possibly convicted of a crime. Unless of course what you're doing is perfectly legal. This is the first time you have mentioned "local ordinances". Heretofore it's been the BATFE we had to worry about - and, according to BATFE regs, there is no limit on the amount of primers and smokeless powder you may possess. And, as much as you enjoy debating, as a moderator I would prefer to keep this discussion from now on limited to a factual discussion of the relevant laws. So, to this point we have determined: BATFE regs, no limit on the amount of smokeless powder or primers you may possess. Local ordinances may differ. Does anyone else have anything relevant to add, or should I count this one answered and lock it down? As has already been stated, you are incorrect. I'll quote it again for you: At present, few local and state governments set limits on storage of small arms ammunition, or reloading components (Shell casings and projectiles are not counted, just powder and primers). However, the federal government through the NFPA has set limits. Transportation in private vehicle: 20lbs – 50lbs in a magazine with walls of 1” thickness Storage in private residence: 20lbs – 50lbs in a magazine with walls of 1” thickness The NFPA does not seem to have any limits on the quantities of primers stored or transported; however, certain states do impose limits such as Massachusetts, where it is illegal to posses more than 1000 primers without a license. However, the license is reasonably priced. Other states impose possession limits on small arms ammunition; the most draconian was again Massachusetts, with a limit of 10,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition, 10,000 rounds of center fire, and 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition. While neither a federal, nor a preponderance of state regulations could be found. It should be expected that quantities exceeding these will likely garner significant attention from authorities. You should check your local laws regarding this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Why didn't you mention all that to start with, instead of hitting us with all this paranoid "They will come to get you" stuff? If you had posted something that sensible and factual to start with, you could have saved everyone a lot of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I did Sir. I was the first one early on in the discussion to give an amount. I was incorrect in the 40# figure I gave, but corrected it with the 50#. I thought you already conceded to accepting that and was quite confused when you flip flopped. For the record, the Federal Government says you cannot have more than 50 lbs of smokeless powder in your home. If you have more than 20 lbs it has to be in an approved 1" thick container known as a "magazine". I do NOT know what the penalty is for having more than that, but I'll find out Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 No, you stated a tentative "I was told but I'm not sure" number of 40 pounds of powder. Then your next comment was, "I ordered 75,000 Fed GMM 210M primers in one shipment." Then "Not with the BATFE!" and we were into scanning the skies for black helicopters, and talking about sawed-off shotguns and doubling AR-15s, while worrying about being busted for making non-existent pipe bombs. Up til Post #67, you never gave out the facts you supplied there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I took the long way to get here huh. Sorry for all the tangents, I was deeply engaged in the conversation though. I'll also admit to not knowing for sure who would enforce such a law, but that too is something I will find out Monday when I talk to Mr. Woods. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to answer my questions. -Who enforces the law not related to transportation of smokeless powder but possession of by an individual in a residence. -What is the penalty of having more than is allowed. -What are the chances of the enforcing party to ever search for a possible violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooddog Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 I am so glad I asked this question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 -Who enforces the law not related to transportation of smokeless powder but possession of by an individual in a residence.-What is the penalty of having more than is allowed. -What are the chances of the enforcing party to ever search for a possible violation. Those would be good questions to have the answers to - granted that the "answer" to the last one may well be one man's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I am so glad I asked this question... Serious or sarcastic, you decide.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 This looks like 4 pages from GlockTalk. Closed. I'll open it if somebody has something good to post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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