What's wrong with this load?

[XDNut]

I have been reloading for a little while now but really just going trying to come up with loads specifically for USPSA Minor for my 9mm. I started with some clays and 125gr zero bullets with some success. It worked fine in my gun but not in my sons which is the exactly the same. I had 3.8 gr Clays, 125gr Zero JHP, 1.150 OAL. His gun could not cycle the load but my did but it wasn't accurate at all. I have switched to N320, since i had some on the bench, and load everything the same but used 4.0 gr N320. Neither gun would cycle. I then went back to my original loads, since I still had 2000 of them and thought maybe the OAL was the problem. I readjusted and put back in the press and changed to 1.140. Now they cycle but I am getting a jam at the ramp or a stove pipe once in awhile.

I went back to the range today with a new load of 4.2 gr N320, 125 gr Zero JHP, 1.130 OAL. Good and Accurate in my gun but still jams and stove pipes about 2 out of each mag in my son's gun. Funny thing is that with factory loads anything works fine in each gun. The other thing is that as I watch the shells eject out of my gun they are all over the place, with my son's gun they drop right next to you or just in front, almost barely getting out of the gun.

I would really like to know if the OAL is that critical and can it change the charge that much. Also should I be looking at the gun? Any help would be appreciated.

Rick

[Aristotle]

Extractor issues with the XD's are a known issue. I would check your son's extractor. In my XD, likes longer OAL. I think I have it out to 1.155-1.160. What kind of sizing die/crimp die are you running?

Edited December 2, 2008 by Aristotle

[Flexmoney]

Your loads are weak.

The XD slide is heavy.

You can only go so light with the recoil spring in the XD. Too light and the gun won't lock up well in battery.

[XDNut]

Extractor issues with the XD's are a known issue. I would check your son's extractor. In my XD, likes longer OAL. I think I have it out to 1.155-1.160. What kind of sizing die/crimp die are you running?

I am using the Redding full length resizing die/decapping and then the redding competition seating die and the dillon crimping die set at .377 crimp. We actually thought it was the extractor and found that when I inspected it it was caked with so much powder I truly thought I had found the problem. That lasted about 4 clips and then it started again.

[XDNut]

Your loads are weak.

The XD slide is heavy.

You can only go so light with the recoil spring in the XD. Too light and the gun won't lock up well in battery.

I understand what you are saying but 4.2g of N320 125g Zero and 1.130 Oal is right at the max in the book. The only difference is the book has it at 1.075 Oal.

[lcs]

I have been reloading for a little while now but really just going trying to come up with loads specifically for USPSA Minor for my 9mm. I started with some clays and 125gr zero bullets with some success. It worked fine in my gun but not in my sons which is the exactly the same. I had 3.8 gr Clays, 125gr Zero JHP, 1.150 OAL. His gun could not cycle the load but my did but it wasn't accurate at all. I have switched to N320, since i had some on the bench, and load everything the same but used 4.0 gr N320. Neither gun would cycle. I then went back to my original loads, since I still had 2000 of them and thought maybe the OAL was the problem. I readjusted and put back in the press and changed to 1.140. Now they cycle but I am getting a jam at the ramp or a stove pipe once in awhile.

I went back to the range today with a new load of 4.2 gr N320, 125 gr Zero JHP, 1.130 OAL. Good and Accurate in my gun but still jams and stove pipes about 2 out of each mag in my son's gun. Funny thing is that with factory loads anything works fine in each gun. The other thing is that as I watch the shells eject out of my gun they are all over the place, with my son's gun they drop right next to you or just in front, almost barely getting out of the gun.

I would really like to know if the OAL is that critical and can it change the charge that much. Also should I be looking at the gun? Any help would be appreciated.

Rick

It sounds like you may have several issues.

I don't know how old your son is, but mine is 10 and every minor round stove pipes or fails to eject (XD 5 Tactical) and when I shoot the same minor load the gun works fine. My son's grip is causing the problem. I do not think OAL is the issue. Even when I shoot the ejection is not the best. I am waiting for a new recoil rod and spring for minor loads. I was using 147gr Berry with titegroup and accuracy was more than acceptable.

[XDNut]

I have been reloading for a little while now but really just going trying to come up with loads specifically for USPSA Minor for my 9mm. I started with some clays and 125gr zero bullets with some success. It worked fine in my gun but not in my sons which is the exactly the same. I had 3.8 gr Clays, 125gr Zero JHP, 1.150 OAL. His gun could not cycle the load but my did but it wasn't accurate at all. I have switched to N320, since i had some on the bench, and load everything the same but used 4.0 gr N320. Neither gun would cycle. I then went back to my original loads, since I still had 2000 of them and thought maybe the OAL was the problem. I readjusted and put back in the press and changed to 1.140. Now they cycle but I am getting a jam at the ramp or a stove pipe once in awhile.

I went back to the range today with a new load of 4.2 gr N320, 125 gr Zero JHP, 1.130 OAL. Good and Accurate in my gun but still jams and stove pipes about 2 out of each mag in my son's gun. Funny thing is that with factory loads anything works fine in each gun. The other thing is that as I watch the shells eject out of my gun they are all over the place, with my son's gun they drop right next to you or just in front, almost barely getting out of the gun.

I would really like to know if the OAL is that critical and can it change the charge that much. Also should I be looking at the gun? Any help would be appreciated.

Rick

It sounds like you may have several issues.

I don't know how old your son is, but mine is 10 and every minor round stove pipes or fails to eject (XD 5 Tactical) and when I shoot the same minor load the gun works fine. My son's grip is causing the problem. I do not think OAL is the issue. Even when I shoot the ejection is not the best. I am waiting for a new recoil rod and spring for minor loads. I was using 147gr Berry with titegroup and accuracy was more than acceptable.

My son is 13 and I thought the same thing. I shot the gun today and the same thing happened to me with his gun. This actually all started at a 2 day class with Manny Bragg. The first 700 rounds we had minimal problems. After that it was every 6 or so. Even Manny tried it and the same thing happened. My son shoots mine and has no problem or if I give him Winchester white box he has no problem. Luckily at the class I had a XDm 9mm for a backup gun just in case and he used it for the next 1200 rounds with no problems. I am really just trying to find the problem or a load that will work consistently in both guns.

[lcs]

My son is 13 and I thought the same thing. I shot the gun today and the same thing happened to me with his gun. This actually all started at a 2 day class with Manny Bragg. The first 700 rounds we had minimal problems. After that it was every 6 or so. Even Manny tried it and the same thing happened. My son shoots mine and has no problem or if I give him Winchester white box he has no problem. Luckily at the class I had a XDm 9mm for a backup gun just in case and he used it for the next 1200 rounds with no problems. I am really just trying to find the problem or a load that will work consistently in both guns.

Now it sounds like there is an issue with the gun. Did you use the same rounds in the backup gun also? if so, then sure seems like your son's gun is the problem.

[XDNut]

My son is 13 and I thought the same thing. I shot the gun today and the same thing happened to me with his gun. This actually all started at a 2 day class with Manny Bragg. The first 700 rounds we had minimal problems. After that it was every 6 or so. Even Manny tried it and the same thing happened. My son shoots mine and has no problem or if I give him Winchester white box he has no problem. Luckily at the class I had a XDm 9mm for a backup gun just in case and he used it for the next 1200 rounds with no problems. I am really just trying to find the problem or a load that will work consistently in both guns.

Now it sounds like there is an issue with the gun. Did you use the same rounds in the backup gun also? if so, then sure seems like your son's gun is the problem.

Same loads in the back up gun and in my gun. Its just that I don't understand why all the factory stuff will work fine but not my reloads.

[el pres]

Your loads are weak.

The XD slide is heavy.

You can only go so light with the recoil spring in the XD. Too light and the gun won't lock up well in battery.

+1

I like to run my XD's with stock springs and loads that are powerful enough to cycle them. Anything else just causes

problems somewhere down the road. A friend of mine is trying to run a light spring with his light loads in one (stuborn)

, it runs for about 30-40 rounds everytime when clean then starts to FTF or stovepipe, put the stock spring back in and

run some decent PF loads and everything works !!

Edited December 4, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER

[XDNut]

Your loads are weak.

The XD slide is heavy.

You can only go so light with the recoil spring in the XD. Too light and the gun won't lock up well in battery.

+1

I like to run my XD's with srock springs and loads that are powerful enough to cycle them. Anything else just causes

problems somewhere down the road. A friend of mine is trying to run a light spring with his light loads in one (stuborn)

, it runs for about 30-40 rounds everytime when clean then starts to FTF or stovepipe, put the stock spring back in and

run some decent PF loads and everything works !!

Thought the same thing. I put in the stock spring from another XD I have and still had the same problem.

[Flexmoney]

Have you had the gun apart (sounds like it)?

If so, then run some more factory ammo thru it to verify that it still works. If it does, and your ammo doesn't...well...?

[XDNut]

Have you had the gun apart (sounds like it)?

If so, then run some more factory ammo thru it to verify that it still works. If it does, and your ammo doesn't...well...?

I guess I will try to run factory loads through it again and see what happens. I was really hoping that somebody could tell me if the OAL that I am using maybe the problem. All the reloading books I have show the Oal so short but the factory stuff is almost at the max length. By the way yes I have had the gun totally apart. Maybe I will just send it back to SA to have them look at it.

Thanks for the help guys

[revchuck]

Have you had the gun apart (sounds like it)?

If so, then run some more factory ammo thru it to verify that it still works. If it does, and your ammo doesn't...well...?

I guess I will try to run factory loads through it again and see what happens. I was really hoping that somebody could tell me if the OAL that I am using maybe the problem. All the reloading books I have show the Oal so short but the factory stuff is almost at the max length. By the way yes I have had the gun totally apart. Maybe I will just send it back to SA to have them look at it.

Thanks for the help guys

If the gun runs with factory ammo, Springfield won't change it, since it would be functioning correctly from their point of view.

If you haven't chronographed your handloads, you need to. I agree with the other posters who feel that your loads may be too light. Velocities given in loading manuals are usually...optimistic. The OALs they use are based, IMO, on giving themselves as much of a fudge factor as possible; shorter OALs raise chamber pressures, most shooters prefer longer OALs because the ammo usually functions better at longer lengths, and the same powder charge with a longer OAL means less pressure.

[Taildraggerdave]

Do you have a 1911 lying around? If so, take the recoil spring out of that and put it in your XD and try it. I'm making some assumptions here...

I took a 16# recoil spring out of my 5" 1911 and put it on the XD to run IDPA loads that are just over power factor. Runs excellent and the spring will fit right on your stock guide rod.

Also, consider trying WSF as a powder for your 9mm reloads. I have been pushing 125gr LRN at "only" a 1.120 OAL and the gun runs and functions 100%. As a side benefit, WSF is very clean and accurate.

Take care,

Dave

[David Sinko]

Some local shooters had XD9s and they all had numerous problems even with factory ammo. I had never seen Production guns fail so miserably so frequently, with factory ammo. They all sold their XD9s and bought M&Ps and have been living happily ever after.

Dave Sinko

[XDNut]

I just loaded up 100 rounds at 1.10 OAL as per book and then 100 at 1.160 as the factory loads are. I will try both in the morning. Thanks for the tip on the 1911 spring. I have three that I can pull from. I will give that a try also.

[technetium-99m]

I run 124 MG JHP's at 1.13 and have never had a problem. I'm not sure if your problem is related to OAL though since you don't have problems with feeding. As for comparing factory WWB with handloads though, I'm not sure it's applicable here. You are talking about a 115 gr FMJ presumably and a 125 gr JHP. You need to get a chrony and work the loads up, anything else is poking in the dark. I'm hesitant to say it's a gun problem if the gun runs fine with factory ammo, although it may be the case.

GT

I just reread and saw you are having a feeding problem after all, you may need to play with the OAL to find what the gun wants.

Edited December 3, 2008 by technetium-99m

[technetium-99m]

Also, with your N320 load, the book has the bullet stuck way farther in the case, the pressure will be lower if you seat the bullet out further than the manual.

[redmanfixit]

The extractor on an XD lays up against a cut in the slide that is parallel to the direction of travel of the slide. This contact point is a fairly wide flat spot. I have found with my 5"XD that "gradu" gets in there and forms a nice compact little cake which reduces the contact the extractor hook has with the case rim. It's easy to clean out once you find it and that little bit of stuff seems to matter. I hand load 9mm with Xtreme plated 124 gr over 4.2gr of bullseye. The gun runs like a watch. Very accurate and it will generally knock steel right over. Only trouble I've had with feeding or extraction with this gun was with cast lead bullets. They fed fine but I did have extraction failures. Still working on it. I don't have the OAL handy but I set my die with a Winchester white box round as the ogive was almost identical.

Perhaps the recoil impulse with the other propellants is softer. I tend to stay with older cheaper propellants because.......um well....uh... I"M older and cheaper! I know how they work because I've used them lots!! Don't know if this'll help at all.

[XDNut]

Went back to the range today with both guns totally clean and three different loads.

1st was the 4.2 gr N320 at 1.160 OAL- Not good in either gun. Feed problems, jams, stove pipe.

2nd was the 3.9 gr Clays at 1.10 OAL - no problems in either gun. Ran great, feed perfect, recoil nice. Very accurate at 15 yrds.

3rd was factory WWB. No problem either. Not as accurate as load # 2.

I guess the gun is ok. Just my loads. Still don't understand the OAL issue making that big of a difference but I guess it does. I will Chrono the 2nd load next week and see if it makes PF.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

Rick

Edited December 3, 2008 by XDNut

[Taildraggerdave]

Went back to the range today with both guns totally clean and three different loads.

1st was the 4.2 gr N320 at 1.160 OAL- Not good in either gun. Feed problems, jams, stove pipe.

2nd was the 3.9 gr Clays at 1.10 OAL - no problems in either gun. Ran great, feed perfect, recoil nice. Very accurate at 15 yrds.

3rd was factory WWB. No problem either. Not as accurate as load # 2.

I guess the gun is ok. Just my loads. Still don't understand the OAL issue making that big of a difference but I guess it does. I will Chrono the 2nd load next week and see if it makes PF.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

Rick

Did you try any of the 3 1911 springs you had?

Dave

[el pres]

I started this whole game with a Service 9mm XD and in "thousands" of rounds through that gun I can say that

I had a handful (single digit) of failures in any match. Infact the only problems were with with a certain

low budget factory ammo that was know for all sorts of problems. I also started reloading with this gun and

so I brought out my old 9mm book to take a look. This is what worked for me...

I found that with guns like the XD that are held in battery strictly by the recoil spring lighter loads caused malfunctions

and most of all inaccuracy. Also the gun was very powder sensitive, as far as accuracy where my 2011 does not seem

to care what goes in it ?? I found that the gun ran best with slightly slower powders .....remember, stock gun..

I would try some 231, or Unique, but my 9mm faviorite is still Power Pistol. I could go really low with Power Pistol

and it would still run and be accurate ?? Try till you find what works for you. My oal's were any where from 1.155 to

1.040, depending on bullet ...

[XDNut]

Went back to the range today with both guns totally clean and three different loads.

1st was the 4.2 gr N320 at 1.160 OAL- Not good in either gun. Feed problems, jams, stove pipe.

2nd was the 3.9 gr Clays at 1.10 OAL - no problems in either gun. Ran great, feed perfect, recoil nice. Very accurate at 15 yrds.

3rd was factory WWB. No problem either. Not as accurate as load # 2.

I guess the gun is ok. Just my loads. Still don't understand the OAL issue making that big of a difference but I guess it does. I will Chrono the 2nd load next week and see if it makes PF.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

Rick

Did you try any of the 3 1911 springs you had?

Dave

No I didn't. When the gun ran fine with the shorter OAL I thought I had finally figured out the issue. I guess I can try next week at the range.

Thanks for the idea.

Rick

[Taildraggerdave]

Went back to the range today with both guns totally clean and three different loads.

1st was the 4.2 gr N320 at 1.160 OAL- Not good in either gun. Feed problems, jams, stove pipe.

2nd was the 3.9 gr Clays at 1.10 OAL - no problems in either gun. Ran great, feed perfect, recoil nice. Very accurate at 15 yrds.

3rd was factory WWB. No problem either. Not as accurate as load # 2.

I guess the gun is ok. Just my loads. Still don't understand the OAL issue making that big of a difference but I guess it does. I will Chrono the 2nd load next week and see if it makes PF.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

Rick

Did you try any of the 3 1911 springs you had?

Dave

No I didn't. When the gun ran fine with the shorter OAL I thought I had finally figured out the issue. I guess I can try next week at the range.

Thanks for the idea.

Rick

Yeah, give it a try. The stock XD9 Tac spring is 18# (I think) so that two pound reduction to a 16 might help with the lighter loads. I find it also makes the front sight easier to track.

Take care,

Dave