appropriate course of action

[Jim Norman]

Talk to the MD as Rob suggests, offer to build and run a stage, do this every couple months.

Oh, right this is about people declaring major when it is obvious (or worse they brag) that they are shooting minor.

Anyway, our solution was to announce that we would be running a chrono stage at an upcomming match. We did it. The people that we thought might be light we not the ones that got burned, it was people that were declared minor, but didn't quite make it.

It is also not a bad idea to set up a chrono so that people can actually chrono their loads. A lot of local only shooters don't seem to use a chrono, but rather load from the book. Use this as a learning teaching opportunity.

Oh, and if the guys declaring major keep doing so after being caught out, decide, do you want them there? A DQ for Unsportsmanlike could be supported. I would certainly NOT do it without a couple runs at the chrono surprise first. And you can always just run them for fun till they get the message.

Most importantly make sure 100% that you are correct in your assumptions. Some people have a really strange sense of humor. They may well be actually shooting major and just messing with you all. Look at how you area reacting. Might just screw up your game.

Jim

[George Jones]

It should not take a chrono to deal with someone being scored Major while shooting 9mm in Limited. It is simply an issue of enforcing the rules.

It could be that the shooter doesn't know the rules - educate him.

It could be that the Statsmeister missed the "Minor PF" on the match registration - correct the entry.

Regardless, the guy should be scored Minor once the discrepancy is discovered.

Blatant cheating is another issue all together.

[Jim Norman]

Declaring 9mm Major in Limited is one of three things as George points out. An error on either the Shooter's or Stats' part, honest ignorance of the rules on the shooter's part or cheating.

I erred in that I forgot the part where the shooter in question was shooting 9mm. I still however stand by the ongoing 'threat' of a chrono stage as a valid way to educate shooters as well as deter those that might think to skirt the rules either through trying to shave too close or deliberate under powering.

Sad part is that I really doubt that 99.9% of the shooters can tell the difference between a 150 PF and a 165, not to mention that the majority will not shoot any better or worse for having the lower factor.

It is sad that some people are so competitive that even where the prize doesn't cover the costs, they still feel the need to win so strongly that they cheat both themselves and thier friends and fellow comptitors.

Jim

[Chuck Anderson]

This type of thing just hurts everyone. Talk to the shooter and ask him about his PF declaration. Most, if not all, of the rules violations I see at the club level are caused by ignorance, not malice. The guys that don't know they aren't supposed to have grip tape on their slide in Production, or a 145 mm mag in Limited (or for that matter how big their mag even is.) This guy may not even know what the difference is between major and minor is. I've found most scorekeepers will assume someone is major unless they are shooting produciton. Just kind of the default assumption.

The other thing, depending on how into USPSA you are is to schedule an RO class for your area. If more people are familiar with the rules there will be more eyes to catch this. I think this is one of the reasons why people get dinged at Nationals for stupid stuff. If the RO's are on the ball at home, no one goes to Nationals with grip tape where it isnt' supposed to be. There shouldn't be a club match set of rules and a separate one for big matches.

[Jim Norman]

this is one of the reasons why people get dinged at Nationals for stupid stuff. If the RO's are on the ball at home, no one goes to Nationals with grip tape where it isnt' supposed to be. There shouldn't be a club match set of rules and a separate one for big matches.

Well said!

There is and only should be one set of rules. So much would be solved if more people were conversant with the rules. Maybe we'd even have fewer Range Lawyers as the understanding of what the rules are, how they are applied and why they are what they are would be more understood.

I'd also agree that most people in our sport are honest and that the rule bending/breaking is due to a lack of knowledge rather than a deliberate effort to cheat.

Jim

Edited November 17, 2008 by Jim Norman

[Micah]

There is and only should be one set of rules. So much would be solved if more people were conversant with the rules. Maybe we'd even have fewer Range Lawyers as the understanding of what the rules are, how they are applied and why they are what they are would be more understood.

I'd also agree that most people in our sport are honest and that the rule bending/breaking is due to a lack of knowledge rather than a deliberate effort to cheat.

Jim

I could not agree more.

That, and I believe that the appropriate course of action to those that are trying to get away with breaking the rules...

A Boot To The Head

[Ron Ankeny]

I'd also agree that most people in our sport are honest and that the rule bending/breaking is due to a lack of knowledge rather than a deliberate effort to cheat.

Most of the problems I see at the chono are guys just trying to cut it way too close. Then the environment changes, or a different chrono...you know. Edited November 18, 2008 by Ron Ankeny

[sfinney]

I used to have an STI 9mm that was just plain fun to shoot. I'd bring it out occasionally...... one match, I noticed alot of whispering and sideways looks after I'd run my stage, with super fast splits and little visible recoil....... and quiet bangs.

Took em about 3 stages to figure out I was shooting 9mm, strangely enough (instead of just asking me)..... then the statement was "why, you''re cheating! You're shooting 9mm!" I replied " I declared minor - yes, I'm shooting Limited MINOR." Which I had.

Of course, when the scores came out, the stat person had missed "Minor" on my sheet.... and I was scored Major in the results.

I had to correct them on that fact... and after the results were re-run, still won Limited that day as it turned out.

If the guy is shooting 9mm in Limited but declaring Major, he needs to be educated on the rules. If he's doing it in disregard of the rules, he's a bum. If everyone at he match is aware of what he is doing, and never challenge him on it, they are encouraging bad behavior and tolerating cheating. Find a new match if they continue to selectively enforce the rules.

Edited November 18, 2008 by sfinney