benos Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Just talked to The Great One on the phone from Columbia - he wasn't so great today. Dropped 20 points on the Barricade. Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark. (Four down on the mover the day before.) With the plates and Practical left, he's probably setting about 4th or 5th. And big Vance Schmidt is in the lead - he's a tough cookie - we'll see what happens. We didn't talk about Open class... he had to go. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Is Vance Schmidt the guy with the polk-a-dot earmuffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Al, Yes. If I remember, Vance wore a set at the 2001 'Cup when he won the Stock Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Who's been shooting longer.....Vance or Jake Kempton? Hey, TRIVIA!!!!!!! (Just two names that always seem to be up there at the top....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Well, it's ALMOST over!!! I just got off the phone so if this is not 100% correct, don't shoot me. I trust the source though. Open 1.Bruce Piatt 1920-184 1.Doug Koenig 1920-184 2. ? 3. ? 4. John Pride Shoot off tomorrow. Stock 1.Fred Craig 1886-??? 2. Vance Schmid 3. TGO Mucho controversy in the stock class, DQ's, protests, reinstatements. One shooter was DQ'd for having a frame and slide that did not match!!!! Frame - SV, Slide - Infinity DUHHHH!!! He was allowed to continue. An AMU shooter used a Caspian framed 1911??????? In Stock class?????? Jerry M had to switch hammers because one was bobbed, TGO raised some questions because of his square trigger guard and some other "features" Looks like Rudy Dufour is trying to make it right. Mike Voight, Bill Wilson and several others are going to sit down with the NRA and make some Stock Class rules similar to Limited Class IPSC and IDPA. Sounds positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 Doug and Bruce tied on 183 X. Even when they checked back on the long targets it was still tied. Shot off at 8.00am Sat. Doug won the shoot off when Bruce dropped an 8 on the barricade. 1. Doug 2. Bruce I will get the rest of the results asap I shot shit. Got the shakes on the Mover and piled up. 1868, which gave me 5th Newcomer and 67th Overall, and 12th in Master. Just about every one had a bad day or days from the get go. Brian if you get this email me at munty@starmail.com. I will be in AZ from Monday 26th. GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 The latest I can get. Overall 1. Koenig 2. Piatt 3. Hemphill (Mississippi) 1920-168 4. Kelly Gilmour 1920-166 5. M Fowler 1918-177 6. J Pride 1918-177 7. E Hoover (NZ) 1918-159 8. Conrad 1918-159 9. Golembieski 1916 10. Blackburn 1916 Stock 1. F Craig 1886 2. Schmid 1884 3. Leatham 1880 4. Miculek 1863 5. Kleser 1850 Intl. 1. Hoover NZ 2. Webb AUS 3. Marsh AUS 4. Ginger AUS 5. Myhre NOR? I am fairly sure no placings will change after the shoot off, but the latest information is that the lower place ties were settled by X count. Off to AZ Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 Does anyone know what guns/calibers the top 5 stock shooters used ? (except TGO ,we know that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 28, 2003 Author Share Posted May 28, 2003 The only thing I know for sure is that Freddie shot his 8" barreled S&W with Bomar sights. Comon NRA - that's a Stock gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I saw Fred's gun and I thought it was one of those silhouette models with factory sights. I don't think NRA is thinking of carry guns when they specify stock, in that light it is probably more of a stock gun than a 1911 with a custom square trigger guard. I think you can change sights and do a trigger job in stock but no other exterior mods. Freddie had to shoot all four matches in one day, that might be an advantage but under the circumstances probably wasn't. They used to be a rule that you couldn't win if you shot everything in one day but this was different I guess. Hope they get stock straightened out for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I thought Fred has been shooting the same revolver since last year, at least. I took a very quick glance at it last year and they looked like Aristocrat sights, but it was a quick glance. The sight change is legal, by the letter of the law. If I remember, sights have to maintain the original platform, notch and post. There is a weight limit too, I think. If they increase the weight by xx ozs, they are illegal. Grips changes are legal. But square trigger guards are not, since they alter the outward appearance. Should that matter? In my opinion, no. But them are the current rules that everyone has to follow. I think it should be Open and "Limited" Limited meaning iron sights, no comps and the current shooting positions..standing except for 50 yrd Practical, no touching the barricade. The production limitation should be lifted too. What difference does it make if the frame is a Caspian or Springfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Freds gun was originally declared not stock. In fact all the top 6 or 7 guys were classed as open. The NRA suddenly and without warning adhered to the letter of the rules and effectively made them shoot open or get the gun back to stock. They may have been correct, but they went about it a little clumsily, and after last years arguments they did the right thing in the end. Jerry M had a fistful of problems when he replaced his bobbed (non factory) hammer with a more original design that satisfied the rules. TGO actually fixed the whole thing in a clever fashion. He gamed them at there own game. He will have to supply the exact details as I am not 100% but it sure was clever. All the revolver guys shot 38Spl, and most of the autos seemed to be 9mm, with a few 38Super thrown in for good measure. But with the PF at 120 I would be sorely tempted to go 9mm in the future, as all the manufaturers of autos make a 9mm and if the NRA go hard on the rules next year that maybe a better choice. PS, I hate long flights. 12hours in coach is bad for the knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 So the Stock rules are too ambiguous to enforce??? There is a suprise!!! I'm still trying to figure out what a "Custom-shot" pistol is. Anything with iron sights and without comps/shrouds should be legal. Like Limited with the current shooting postions. Or why not any position?? My 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Yeah, "Custom-shot " pistol, what a laugh that is! Like I said on another forum. the NRA dosen't even know the questions regarding rules, much less the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 The Stock guns rules are not ambiguous. They have just been poorly applied and managed. Unfortunately the NRA should have given all those intending to shoot stock fair warning that they were going to rigidly enforce the rules at the 2003 Cup, not just jump all over them at the line. The problem is that they (the NRA) had in the past failed to make the stock shooters stick to the rules as written. So being all for the main chance the competitors shoot what they felt was legal and the NRA refs let them go for it. So TGO pointed that out and made them stick by the previous ruling/s, sanity prevailed. Further discussions were held during and after the match and I hope that the stock rules will be more along the line of the IPSC Std Class rules (Ltd as near as damn) and that way more guys can shoot "stock" with what they already own, we need more people shooting this, not less. The only problem I can see at present is the size of the box. They may have to go with a larger size limit. Jerry M will agree. TGO also suggested a weight limit on the guns (I now agree with that idea). As long as it has no dot, no comp and fits a size and or weight requirement you can shoot it. Have fun or go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 I agree - we need more folks shooting this match in "stock class" if it is to survive. Unfortunately however, because of this year's events, I feel, by trying to have the same set of rules accommodate autos and revolvers, this will encourage highly refined "stock-type" guns that will only be shot at the Cup. This will not be good. Because sight radius is critical at this match, I feel there should be a sight radius restriction. (Whatever a 5" 1911 is.) Otherwise, if they have a box that accommodates a 6" revolver, then the trick gun, except for a few wheelgun die-hards, will evolve toward a long-slide, weenie-gun auto. Then Stock class won't be much different than Open class with iron sights. If you choose to shoot a 6" wheelgun, then you'll have to mount the sight back a tad. Even though this may sound stupid and irritate revolver shooters, I feel it would help police over-specialization for the years to come. Then a weigh limit, whatever a 6" L-frame is, would pretty well police the rest. And no "non-production" style guns, like gas-operated autos for example. But if you want to shoot your "pieced-together" Caspian slide and SVI frame, no problemo. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 A 38 Super gas gun .... HMMMM!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Just imagine a 380acp Wadcutters in a Walther GSP with 6 shot magazines and you have got NRA Action crossed with ISU Bullseye. Just to annoy some of the ISU guys I have just fitted a set of NilGrips to an old Colt Combat Elite and am in the process of working out some powder puff loads for ISU. 125gr Lead and Hodgdon Titewad. I will of course "accidently" drop a copule of 180pf loads for the sighting in series. That should rattle the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 GM, Bad Boy!!! When I used to shoot in a bullseye league, the last match of the year was a "fun match" with fixed sights only. One of the Distingushed shooters (double Distinguished actually) brought his .50 AE Desert Eagle. Talk about the line taking notice!!!! The line sounded like BOOOOMMM HA HA HA , pause, crack-crack-crack-crack, pause, BOOOOMMM HA HA HA etc Everyone waited until he broke a shot and I was in the position next to him. His laughing was everyone's signal. I think he put up a 287 or so on the short course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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