00bullitt Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I loaded up some 200 grain Montana Gold JFP's over 4.4gr of Clays at 1.220" and was no where near PF. Only doing 740-770fps. I need to be at 835-850. I loaded up another small test batch with 4.7 but that puts it a few tenths over max in the current Hodgden manual. I have been seeing where HSMITH said the old data in books had alot higher max. My old Lee manual did have higher max loads listed but they did not list Clays for the 200. Only 185 and 230. It seems easy to make PF if your shooting lead or plated bullets. Is Clays not the best choice for 45 in 200 grain jacketed? If 4.7 does not work I guess I'll go to TG or WSF. I see alot of info for WSF and TG in my manuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I have never had a problem making major with clays in the 45, even with 185 grain bullets using published data. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I have been loading 4.3gr of Clays under a 200gr LSWC at 1.235". I've loaded about 1000 of them and they run well and are fairly clean, but I haven't had a chrono on them yet. Your info does scare me a little. I'm planning to Chrono in the next few weeks before I get to far into ammo for the spring matches. This is my first year of USPSA (and reloading) and making major is one headache I don't need. Here's the info from Hodgdon: 200 GR. CAST LSWC 200 Clays .451" 1.225" 3.6gr 759fps //// 4.3gr 888fps What's the gun, barrel, and weather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 I trust the data for lead bullets. My data was pretty close to stated but had to load for myself to see. From what I saw.....it is easy to make major with lead and plated bullets. I'm thinking published data for jacketed is not enough. I am going to shoot this next batch loaded over current max data and see what happens. If it does not work......I will not use Clays anymore. I'll stick with Titegroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjohn Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I trust the data for lead bullets. My data was pretty close to stated but had to load for myself to see. From what I saw.....it is easy to make major with lead and plated bullets. I'm thinking published data for jacketed is not enough. I am going to shoot this next batch loaded over current max data and see what happens. If it does not work......I will not use Clays anymore. I'll stick with Titegroup. Please post your chrono data, as I'm looking for a similar load with 200 gr. Montana Gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I would go back to 4.3-4.4 grs and seat bullet @1.85-1.20, Maybe someone else has the old manual on Clays and can chime in on what is the old max w/ a 200 gr bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjohn Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) I would go back to 4.3-4.4 grs and seat bullet @1.85-1.20, Maybe someone else has the old manual on Clays and can chime in on what is the old max w/ a 200 gr bullet. That's my load exactly, 4.3 gr. Clays at 200 gr MG with a OAL of 1.185. Edited February 27, 2008 by chrisjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 I would go back to 4.3-4.4 grs and seat bullet @1.85-1.20, Maybe someone else has the old manual on Clays and can chime in on what is the old max w/ a 200 gr bullet. My test loads started at shorter oal. I had eight loaded at 1.180",eight loaded at 1.20",and eight loaded at 1.220". There was only 10 fps difference in them. I got a max of 783 at 1.180" Longer oal is always safer with Clays in my experience. The shape of my bullet will not let me seat shorter than 1.180". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) I typically load this bullet to an OAL of 1.210 I haven't tried it with Clays but have found the 200 gr MG and Titegroup to be an outstanding combination for accuracy. TG made 168 PF with 5.2 grains. Edited February 26, 2008 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Stay w/ Clays switch to 230's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Stay w/ Clays switch to 230's. That may be what I do. I know the 230 CMJ load works with 4.1 grains and its soft. I was a bit surprised by the recoil of the Clays and 200. Not what I was expecting and it was underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 How temp. sensitive is Clays? I load 230 plated (Frontier) RN with 4.0 of clays in mixed brass with WLP. Crono's on a 40 degree day at 156pf out of a Glock 21. Gun was brand new. I shot the 20 rounds I had left in 1911 and it felt soft but no crono. I was thinking of using 4.2 and trying that. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsaxdog Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Stay w/ Clays switch to 230's. you know das' right.......clays sux w/ anything but 230's. but w/230's, you can't beat it. i watch guys blow the heads off .40's, and still swear by it. go figure.....powders can't be interpolated to other bullet weights/calibers with linear math. there's other chemical values involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 OK.....just got back from the range with some chrono data. It was only 41 degrees out. I increased the Clays load to 4 tenths over max. to 4.7 at 1.220"oal Velocities= 819,831,819,831,808,822,820,785,822,831,848 Average= 821 PF=164.2 Accuracy was excellent at 20 yards. A 3.25" 8 shot group into the head of an IPSC target. There were no signs of over pressure. No bulged cases,no flat primers,no primer flow. I think its safe at the longer oal since the book is showing tested oal at 1.155" I am going to increase to 4.8 and shorten slightly to 1.210". That should get me there in these cold temps. I also tried some Titegroup at 5.1 grains at 1.220" Velocities= 771,792,799,812,821,805,790,790,779,787 Average= 794.6 PF= 158.9 Accuracy was just under 4" at 20 yards for 7 out of 8 shots fired at the head of an IPSC target. These were fired out of a Springfield TRP 5" with SA one piece barrel and 15# ISMI recoil spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 OK.....just got back from the range with some chrono data. It was only 41 degrees out.I increased the Clays load to 4 tenths over max. to 4.7 at 1.220"oal Velocities= 819,831,819,831,808,822,820,785,822,831,848 Average= 821 PF=164.2 167 pf w/ the 3 highest of ten. 165.6 pf taking 3 highest on first six rds. You might be ok if it was 20 degrees warmer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted March 1, 2008 Author Share Posted March 1, 2008 (edited) OK....I finally made it. 4 tenths over max charge(4.8grains). No pressure signs at all. I also shortened up the load to 1.210" Chronoed these at 59 degrees. Velocities=835,833,849,842,880,861,802,849,897,851,849,868 Average= 851 PF=170.2 I may even lengthen it back out to 1.220 just for a tad more cushion in pressure. Edited March 1, 2008 by 00bullitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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