Shoot ESP with 45 ACP?

[PPC Eljay]

I had a PM about what is a Kimber BP 10 II, so for those who are unfamilar. The BP 10 II is a polymer frame double stack with a standard 1911 top end. Mine is the standard mat blue fixed site model but they make them in higher grades and stainless. I have 10, 13, and 14 round mags for it. From what I've read it's the BUL M5 frame with Kimber's upper, I also read that the M5 also has a Kimber made upper with a BUL rollmark, and I still feel that the Wilson KZ 45 is the same frame, but have been told otherwise. I bought it in Jan. of this year from "Bud's" in Ky. for $500 new plus ship and transfer. Para mags don't fit mine but its been said that they do with mods. It's not much wider than a single stack because there's no "grips" on it. What i don't like is the firing pin block (hence the II) but that is any Kimber, and the part that the slide rides on is Aluminum, but I don't see much wear after a good 4000+ rounds and the grip safety is also plastic, which I really want to change. I changed to a lighter recoil spring but I didn't like the slide impulse, so I just down loaded as light as i could with the stock spring and still have %100 function, which is 4.5 231/200 LSWC @ 700 or so. I don't shoot many majors but 2nd ESP MM at NJ (bumped) 2nd ESP SS CT ,16th Nats ESP SS (choked in the dark).

[Singlestack Wonder]

I had a PM about what is a Kimber BP 10 II, so for those who are unfamilar. The BP 10 II is a polymer frame double stack with a standard 1911 top end. Mine is the standard mat blue fixed site model but they make them in higher grades and stainless. I have 10, 13, and 14 round mags for it. From what I've read it's the BUL M5 frame with Kimber's upper, I also read that the M5 also has a Kimber made upper with a BUL rollmark, and I still feel that the Wilson KZ 45 is the same frame, but have been told otherwise. I bought it in Jan. of this year from "Bud's" in Ky. for $500 new plus ship and transfer. Para mags don't fit mine but its been said that they do with mods. It's not much wider than a single stack because there's no "grips" on it. What i don't like is the firing pin block (hence the II) but that is any Kimber, and the part that the slide rides on is Aluminum, but I don't see much wear after a good 4000+ rounds and the grip safety is also plastic, which I really want to change. I changed to a lighter recoil spring but I didn't like the slide impulse, so I just down loaded as light as i could with the stock spring and still have %100 function, which is 4.5 231/200 LSWC @ 700 or so. I don't shoot many majors but 2nd ESP MM at NJ (bumped) 2nd ESP SS CT ,16th Nats ESP SS (choked in the dark).

Kimber used to use the BUL M5 frame and have now switched to their own version. For the price, the BP10 II is a great way to get a doublestack 45acp. It's around the same price as a Glock 21SF, which would also be a great ESP .45acp pistol.

[midvalleyshooter]

You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad.

But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame.

Yes?

Steve,

I believe the answer to your question is "No"

That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack?

Craig

IDPA has always been about gamers anyway.

And here I thought it was about shooting all 0's in the fastest possible time while staying within the rules. Oh and having fun while doing the above

MVS

[Steve J]

You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad.

But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame.

Yes?

Steve,

I believe the answer to your question is "No"

That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack?

Craig

IDPA has always been about gamers anyway.

And here I thought it was about shooting all 0's in the fastest possible time while staying within the rules. Oh and having fun while doing the above

MVS

I believe you are right. I think he meant to say "ESP has always been about gamers anyway."

[jmorris]

It’ll cost you more to shoot a 45 than a 9mm and if you think the extra .0485” in bullet hole radius is going to make you a national champion you might reconsider. If it’s for the novelty or “what you’ve got”, I understand. Now, the 45 ACP (230gr @ 550fps) in the old SSR was a great advantage (mostly due to larger holes to hit and moonclips), maybe that’s one way to look at it, if it’s that great of an idea they would change the rules.

[midvalleyshooter]

It'll cost you more to shoot a 45 than a 9mm and if you think the extra .0485" in bullet hole radius is going to make you a national champion you might reconsider. If it's for the novelty or "what you've got", I understand. Now, the 45 ACP (230gr @ 550fps) in the old SSR was a great advantage (mostly due to larger holes to hit and moonclips), maybe that's one way to look at it, if it's that great of an idea they would change the rules.

I agree with you jmorris: Yes 45 costs more that 9mm. No making bigger holes won't make you a national champion, although you must admit bigger holes will score more points on average. Yes I have a really nice series one Kimber that I want to shoot more, plus with the light loads I can run any quality of lead bullet.

At the end of the day, if its safe, we follow the rules and we have fun. We are good, right?

Happy holidays,

Keith

[midvalleyshooter]

Oops, double tap:)

Happy holidays,

Keith

Edited December 5, 2007 by midvalleyshooter

[jmorris]

although you must admit bigger holes will score more points on average. Yes I have a really nice series one Kimber that I want to shoot more, plus with the light loads I can run any quality of lead bullet.

At the end of the day, if its safe, we follow the rules and we have fun. We are good, right?

The number of times that the extra .050” would have saved me a point this year (at a sanctioned match) could be counted on one hand (if at all) and would have made no difference in the outcome. I suppose you could make the same argument for the 50GI over the 45 that would double the “advantage”. On the other hand remember, if you truly believe it will help you, that is more important than if it really does. As long as you comply with the rest of the rules, you are good to go.

[Joe D]

I like shooting a .45 in ESP just to get under the "Tactical Teds" skins a bit. Let us all repeat together - IDPA is not training, just a game.

BTW shooting a .45 has saved me several points each match. I guess I need to shoot in the center of the 0 circle more often.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Joe D

[richardschennberg]

I would recommend 7-round magazines in an 1911 .45ACP for both CDP and ESP. They are more reliable and IDPA is not a high-round-count game. Some 8-rounders are a bit tight when brand new and fully loaded; they also wear out a bit quicker than the 7-rounders. A weak spring could misfead the last round or fail to lock the slide back when empty. This is a minor point: if you already have 8-rounders and they work, use them. Wilson 8-rounders are reliable. I use Wilson 7-rounders, but with 7 almost any brand will work.

In any case, make sure you follow the rules:

1. All magazines must have the same capacity (but it is O.K. to use 10-rounders mixed with hi-caps as long as you load 10 in each).

2. Magazines with less than 11-round capacity must be fully loaded at start.

3. The gun must fit in the box with an empty magazine inserted.

Richard