IOR Valdada 1.5-8 x 26

[Scout454]

dt1

Which reticle did you get?

[Religious Shooter]

Holdover references should be good at any magnification. If the scope is SFP (I'm not sure if anyone ever verified FFP or SFP on the IOR?) you would use max magnification for range estimation. If it's first focal plane, you could estimate with any magnification.

The holdover references will be good at any magnification if it is FFP. If it is SFP they will only be good at a certain magnification (give or take).

As you noted with "SFP... you would use max magnification for range estimation." How then would the references be good at any magnification when you can only range accurately at a certain power?

[dt1]

dt1

Which reticle did you get?

NP-1, I prefer a cross hair reticle. Most people I suspect would opt for the FC-2 which is the circle dot, also a good choice. The key is that the scope is ultra clear. I actually dialed down the power to 2.5-3x for the long range stage at Ft. Benning to improve fov, no problem at all to hit the steel due to the clairty of the sight pic.

The illuminated reticle is real nice for stages toward the end of the day when the sun is going down or stages in the woods.

[bigsaxdog]

great thread! i don't think it's been answered whether the valdada is in the first or second focal plane, either! you listenin', Cactus Tactical? i've got a trijicon accupoint, and i'm starting to get unhappy w/it. the better answers are just kinda $$$, you dig? but i guess you get what you pay for w/glass. i've heard the nightforce is real nice. also would like to see a US Optics. i like the long eye relief on my trijicon, and i think you can have usoptics do that too. wonder about the quality of the glass. i'm really starting to notice that my trijicon's glass ain't so good, at least not for my aging eyes. i didn't really get if the nightforce is in the FFP?

[Scout454]

dt1

Which reticle did you get?

NP-1, I prefer a cross hair reticle. Most people I suspect would opt for the FC-2 which is the circle dot, also a good choice. The key is that the scope is ultra clear. I actually dialed down the power to 2.5-3x for the long range stage at Ft. Benning to improve fov, no problem at all to hit the steel due to the clairty of the sight pic.

The illuminated reticle is real nice for stages toward the end of the day when the sun is going down or stages in the woods.

I've used the FC-2 and I didn't care for it. A bit like the Meopta but with a smaller image in the reticle. The NF 1-4 also comes with a close range Mil Dot that might prove useful.

DT, do the NP-1's crosshairs give you any reference for holdover? I.e., does the bottom of the vertical crosshair equate to a particular holdover? How about if you bracket the target between the crosshair and bottom of the vertical line?

[dt1]

dt1

Which reticle did you get?

NP-1, I prefer a cross hair reticle. Most people I suspect would opt for the FC-2 which is the circle dot, also a good choice. The key is that the scope is ultra clear. I actually dialed down the power to 2.5-3x for the long range stage at Ft. Benning to improve fov, no problem at all to hit the steel due to the clairty of the sight pic.

The illuminated reticle is real nice for stages toward the end of the day when the sun is going down or stages in the woods.

I've used the FC-2 and I didn't care for it. A bit like the Meopta but with a smaller image in the reticle. The NF 1-4 also comes with a close range Mil Dot that might prove useful.

DT, do the NP-1's crosshairs give you any reference for holdover? I.e., does the bottom of the vertical crosshair equate to a particular holdover? How about if you bracket the target between the crosshair and bottom of the vertical line?

You can get by with it, but it's not perfect. You can definitely use the top of the lower verticle crosshair as a reference. The perfect reticle, IMO, would be an NP-1 with a couple of verticle stadia marks for hold over purposes.

The key is to spend some time prone banging away at 300, 350, and 400 flash targets and get a feel for where you need to hold. I reference off the front card on the flash target (if they're standard MGM type flash targets) which seems to work better than referencing off the steel plate for me.

[dt1]

Holdover references should be good at any magnification. If the scope is SFP (I'm not sure if anyone ever verified FFP or SFP on the IOR?) you would use max magnification for range estimation. If it's first focal plane, you could estimate with any magnification.

The holdover references will be good at any magnification if it is FFP. If it is SFP they will only be good at a certain magnification (give or take).

As you noted with "SFP... you would use max magnification for range estimation." How then would the references be good at any magnification when you can only range accurately at a certain power?

Technically, you are correct regarding the holdovers.

Functionally, it would only make a significant difference if we were shooting at 1/2 or 1 moa targets. We usually are shooting at 10" flash targets between 200 & 350yds (and occasionally out to 400yds - Ft. Benning). The variation in the hold over at a different magnification on a SFP scope wouldn't be significant enough to matter with the size targets that we normally engage.

Also, if you're gonna have a 8x scope, I assume you'll crank it up to 8x on long distance targets. If you practice at that power, you'll know where to hold when shooting the stage, and it wouldn't really matter which power vs holdover.

Again, the key is clarity as opposed to more magnification (IMO). I'm usually so hyped up when shooting a stage I'd have trouble holding the x-hairs still on 8x even prone. I'd have been a basket case trying to shoot that long range stage at Ft. Benning on 8x) Further the FOV would be pretty limited and you might become disoriented when engaging a big, wide array of targets at various distances. That, along with other limitations like the fov on low power and eye relief (the NF is great in both respects) is the reason I've gone with the NF.

Optics are really a matter of personal preference. Like any of this equipment we shoot with, the main thing that matters is to practice with it and get proficient.

Edited February 20, 2008 by dt1

[caspian guy]

Having shot David's scope on his AR-10 on flash targets out to 200+ yards I will vouch that it is a nice piece of glass...

Speaking as a Meopta user I would consider this scope if I weren't so attached to the daylight illuminated reticle.

In reference to holdover-capable reticles NightForce claims that they are available on this scope most notably the NPR2 (MOA marks) and a Mill-dot reticle.

Peter Adams

Sorry for thread creep...

Edited February 20, 2008 by caspian guy

[Cactustactical]

The 35 mm tubes are all SFP with the exception of the special run of 3 - 18's created for Snipers Hide last year. This was a limited run which might be available again to the general public.

At the SHOT Show, we spent quite a bit of time at the Valdada booth, and pertinent facts are:

1) 2008 prices are going into effect March 1st. The Dollars declining value against the Euro is the root cause of the rising price of European scopes across the board.

Valdada is going to rigidly enforce ( or attempt to) its MAP program. What this means is that if you see a price that is quite a bit lower than every one elses ( and it is not a grey market product), it is probably a return or obsolete. There are a few stores on the east side of the country who buy up the repaired and obsolete stuff and list it in such a way that you can't tell it not new or current gen. Buyer beware if you see a price that is too good to be true.

2) We will honor lower prices privately once the price increases are posted as long as it makes sense to do so. Basically, if we have it in inventory pre price increase, we can give it to you at 2007 prices. The 3 - 18's and 9 - 36's are already going for the new prices since they were out of stock across the board and the most recent shipment received was at 2008 prices. Contact us privately to see if this situation exists for the scope you are interested in, we will not respond to public questions for pricing ( violation of map agreement).

3) We retained our status as 1 of the 5 Valdada distributors, even moved up a notch in sales. We are going to open up our dealer program more widely. Basically, if you buy $2500 worth of products at 1 time, we will give you published dealer pricing. Any combination of scopes, rings, bases, etc will earn the pricing.

4) The 1-4 scout scope concept did not make it to the Show. The design has been in place for at least 6 months, but the factory did not get the pre production model here in time. This will be a cqb to mid range scope with long eye relief and a wide field of view. Pricing should be $700 - 900. I really hope this works out as a concept because it is a natural fit for the competition world.

Sorry for the thread drift, but there is so much activity in this thread, it made sense to respond here instead of a notice in our forum.

[Scout454]

First, Dave, Peter, Cactus - It's my thread, drift away.

I'm in the market for new glass. Unfortunately, I'm not rich and I can't keep buying until I get what I want so I have to rely on the opinions of others. Informed, descriptive opinions of people who actively shoot 3 Gun are invited and appreciated.

BTW, I called Nightforce as part of this quest and the 1-4 is not available with the NP-R1 or NP-R2 reticle. The 1-4 is available with the FC-2, NP-1 and Close Range Mil Dot. The 2.5 to 10 adds the NP-R2. In order to get the NP-R1 you must go to the 3.5-15.

Cactus - any idea on when the 1-4 IOR will be available?

Thanks, please keep the posts coming.

[dt1]

Getting back on topic, I don't believe Jeff ever posted a review on his 1.5-8x IOR. I saw it mounted back in Nov at the Area 6 3-gun match and peeked through it, but haven't heard Jeff's opinion.

I'll send him a PM to check out this thread and chime in. I know Jeff will have run the scope through the ringer.

I believe IOR already makes a 1.1-4x variable that is illuminated. I have no experience with it so can't comment.

I enjoy these "holy grail" scope discussions and also value anyone's considered opinion on what works best for them.

David

[caspian guy]

First, Dave, Peter, Cactus - It's my thread, drift away.

I'm in the market for new glass. Unfortunately, I'm not rich and I can't keep buying until I get what I want so I have to rely on the opinions of others. Informed, descriptive opinions of people who actively shoot 3 Gun are invited and appreciated.

BTW, I called Nightforce as part of this quest and the 1-4 is not available with the NP-R1 or NP-R2 reticle. The 1-4 is available with the FC-2, NP-1 and Close Range Mil Dot. The 2.5 to 10 adds the NP-R2. In order to get the NP-R1 you must go to the 3.5-15.

Cactus - any idea on when the 1-4 IOR will be available?

Thanks, please keep the posts coming.

Huh... That is interesting...

They list it on their website http://www.nightforceoptics.com/?catid=1&viewitem=150 (it shows up if you go down to the second pane where they compare specs of the 1-4 with the 2.5-10 scroll down to show the reticles that are available on each.)

Of course, to me it seems likely based on your conversations with them that it is a misprint...

Goes to show you you can't believe every thing you read.

Peter

[dt1]

First, Dave, Peter, Cactus - It's my thread, drift away.

I'm in the market for new glass. Unfortunately, I'm not rich and I can't keep buying until I get what I want so I have to rely on the opinions of others. Informed, descriptive opinions of people who actively shoot 3 Gun are invited and appreciated.

BTW, I called Nightforce as part of this quest and the 1-4 is not available with the NP-R1 or NP-R2 reticle. The 1-4 is available with the FC-2, NP-1 and Close Range Mil Dot. The 2.5 to 10 adds the NP-R2. In order to get the NP-R1 you must go to the 3.5-15.

Cactus - any idea on when the 1-4 IOR will be available?

Thanks, please keep the posts coming.

Huh... That is interesting...

They list it on their website http://www.nightforceoptics.com/?catid=1&viewitem=150 (it shows up if you go down to the second pane where they compare specs of the 1-4 with the 2.5-10 scroll down to show the reticles that are available on each.)

Of course, to me it seems likely based on your conversations with them that it is a misprint...

Goes to show you you can't believe every thing you read.

Peter

I also called NF regarding this a few weeks ago Pete. The dude I spoke to said there were only 3 reticles you could get on the 1-4, the FC-2, NP-1 and Mil dot. Looks like the NP-R2 is only available on the 2.5-10. I too was confused as the NF website suggests that more reticles are available on the 1-4x.

On another thread drifting note, one of the RO's at Benning said there was a "new holdover reticle" of some sort available on the NF 1-4x. He described it as some sort of modified NP-1 reticle. When I inquired about it, the NF phone rep said he didn't have information on what the "military division" was doing but said there might be one?

I didn't know Nightforce had a "military division"? It would be interesting to find out.

[Cactustactical]

Cactus - any idea on when the 1-4 IOR will be available?

If the compact 1 - 4 comes to market, it will probably be the end of the year, earliest, based on how long I have seen it take products to come to market previously.

I personally like the concept of this scope, a very compact 1 - 4, no variable power ring, just a throw lever similiar externally to what the Elcan Spectre DR has. The internals would be different engineering wise, from what I here. This would take a bit of back and forth testing, which is why we were hoping to see the pre production model at the Show.

Very different scope from the current 1.1 - 4, which I am a big fan of.

[dt1]

Cactus - any idea on when the 1-4 IOR will be available?

If the compact 1 - 4 comes to market, it will probably be the end of the year, earliest, based on how long I have seen it take products to come to market previously.

I personally like the concept of this scope, a very compact 1 - 4, no variable power ring, just a throw lever similiar externally to what the Elcan Spectre DR has. The internals would be different engineering wise, from what I here. This would take a bit of back and forth testing, which is why we were hoping to see the pre production model at the Show.

Very different scope from the current 1.1 - 4, which I am a big fan of.

Any idea on the reticle? That horseshoe dot that comes with the 1.1-4?

Edited February 21, 2008 by dt1

[caspian guy]

Cactus,

If the new IOR 1-4 has more eye relief than the 1.1-4 IOR I have on my backup rifle it would be very interesting indeed.

I generally like the IOR CQB reticle (Not wild about the horseshoe above the dot, though. Mater of personal preference I guess...)

Is the new scope illuminated? If so are they going to be able to boost the brightness of the illumination?

Peter

[Charles Bond]

great thread! i don't think it's been answered whether the valdada is in the first or second focal plane, either! you listenin', Cactus Tactical? i've got a trijicon accupoint, and i'm starting to get unhappy w/it. the better answers are just kinda $$$, you dig? but i guess you get what you pay for w/glass. i've heard the nightforce is real nice. also would like to see a US Optics. i like the long eye relief on my trijicon, and i think you can have usoptics do that too. wonder about the quality of the glass. i'm really starting to notice that my trijicon's glass ain't so good, at least not for my aging eyes. i didn't really get if the nightforce is in the FFP?

My take is that the US Optics is a brick and it takes a full revolution of the power dial to change from 1x to 4x or back again. Turning more than 180 degrees is a handicapp. Optics are good but not as good as the NF or Elcan but has best FOV of lot.

I have also found the trijcon optics lacking. It looks really good until you go from shooting a stage with targets at 25 meters, 100 meters, 300 meters and then 30 meters. The back and forth is tends to make the better optics of the NF shine.

You might also want to look at the Elcan Spector DR which is the best all round scope I have found for a competition AR rifle. If you can afford to go with the 4x flip out, the Eotech works well.

But back to the IOR Valdada: For the money it is likely the pick of the litter.

[bigsaxdog]

i saw an elcan spector at the shot show last year, and had an immediate woody. but i have since seen a couple that seemed to have some focus problems. i saw one that definitely was out of focus, and the other i touched, i really couldn't check out much, but it didn't seem right. the one i touched at the shot show was great, at least as i remembered. the problem is that they don't have adustable eyepieces(is that the objective?). my eyes ain't so great anymore, and it really helps when i can focus the thing. maybe that's not a problem for 20yr. old 20/20 army dogs, but that's not me. the holdover and independantly lit reticles on the thing is definitely the shizzit, though.

Edited February 21, 2008 by bigsaxdog

[Scout454]

First, Dave, Peter, Cactus - It's my thread, drift away.

I'm in the market for new glass. Unfortunately, I'm not rich and I can't keep buying until I get what I want so I have to rely on the opinions of others. Informed, descriptive opinions of people who actively shoot 3 Gun are invited and appreciated.

BTW, I called Nightforce as part of this quest and the 1-4 is not available with the NP-R1 or NP-R2 reticle. The 1-4 is available with the FC-2, NP-1 and Close Range Mil Dot. The 2.5 to 10 adds the NP-R2. In order to get the NP-R1 you must go to the 3.5-15.

Cactus - any idea on when the 1-4 IOR will be available?

Thanks, please keep the posts coming.

Huh... That is interesting...

They list it on their website http://www.nightforceoptics.com/?catid=1&viewitem=150 (it shows up if you go down to the second pane where they compare specs of the 1-4 with the 2.5-10 scroll down to show the reticles that are available on each.)

Of course, to me it seems likely based on your conversations with them that it is a misprint...

Goes to show you you can't believe every thing you read.

Peter

Pete,

Nightforceoptics.com is the old website. The new one is Nightforcescopes.com and it lists the correct optics. There is a rumor that the 1-4 can be had with the NP-R1 reticle but I haven't been able to confirm it. When my contact gets back I'll see what I can find out.

[caspian guy]

First, Dave, Peter, Cactus - It's my thread, drift away.

I'm in the market for new glass. Unfortunately, I'm not rich and I can't keep buying until I get what I want so I have to rely on the opinions of others. Informed, descriptive opinions of people who actively shoot 3 Gun are invited and appreciated.

BTW, I called Nightforce as part of this quest and the 1-4 is not available with the NP-R1 or NP-R2 reticle. The 1-4 is available with the FC-2, NP-1 and Close Range Mil Dot. The 2.5 to 10 adds the NP-R2. In order to get the NP-R1 you must go to the 3.5-15.

Cactus - any idea on when the 1-4 IOR will be available?

Thanks, please keep the posts coming.

Huh... That is interesting...

They list it on their website http://www.nightforceoptics.com/?catid=1&viewitem=150 (it shows up if you go down to the second pane where they compare specs of the 1-4 with the 2.5-10 scroll down to show the reticles that are available on each.)

Of course, to me it seems likely based on your conversations with them that it is a misprint...

Goes to show you you can't believe every thing you read.

Peter

Pete,

Nightforceoptics.com is the old website. The new one is Nightforcescopes.com and it lists the correct optics. There is a rumor that the 1-4 can be had with the NP-R1 reticle but I haven't been able to confirm it. When my contact gets back I'll see what I can find out.

That explains it.

[Cactustactical]

Any idea on the reticle? That horseshoe dot that comes with the 1.1-4?

I would expect it to come with the current version of the CQB reticle, imho. It has not gone far enough in the development / decision process to think about reticles. Valdada is pretty tied up with the 35 mm tubes now, the sales have been higher than expected. that is probably one of the main reasons development projects have been slowed.

[Cactustactical]

Cactus,

If the new IOR 1-4 has more eye relief than the 1.1-4 IOR I have on my backup rifle it would be very interesting indeed.

I generally like the IOR CQB reticle (Not wild about the horseshoe above the dot, though. Mater of personal preference I guess...)

Is the new scope illuminated? If so are they going to be able to boost the brightness of the illumination?

Peter

The engineering concept is a lighter than normal, longer eye relief cqb / mid range scope.

The horseshoe was originally designed for battlefield combat, bracket your target in the horseshoe and pull the trigger. Works real well in IMGA matches if you can use the bracket the target concept. Some try and use it for precision shooting, it is not desigfned for that. That is what the center dot is for.

Scope would be illuminated. Probably not for daylight usage.