9x19 Open Major....yes

[JL Hardy]

since approximately two weeks after the rule change allowing 9x19 to be used in standard loading length for uspsa open division and to be scored as major i have been shooting it exclusively in local matches every weekend and at the florida open(1st major match of the year). i would not advise someone to ditch a perfectly good super or one of the other commonly used calibers in favor of the 9 because the expense of the changover in loading equipment and other cost considerations would buy lots of brass. but if you are needing to rebarrel a gun that you are happy with or are building a new gun then it should be considered seriously. i myself see a savings of several hundred dollars a year in brass cost alone. also the loads tend to use approx. 1 grain less powder to make the same velocity. there are several powders that are readily available which offer good performance. i personallyhave been shooting the caliber and have three other shooters now shooting the guns on a very regular basis who are very happy with the set up. my guns are set up as commander open guns entirely and function flawlessly. as to how each individual gun performs i.e. snappy, dot movement ect there are alot of variables which affect this mostly to do with the shooter and their technique and leastly to do with powder and bullet choice. although powder and bullet choice will have an affect. shooting 115 grain bullets would not be a reccomendation i would give but i also don' like them in super either.these guns must be set up by someone familiar with how to do so. just as with other open class guns. there a lot of fine gunsmiths who do good quality work who cannot make a regular super run reliably. it would also be difficult to set up a gun to run reliably with both 9 and super. i believe this was what Paul W. was attempting to do. and i agree with him that it is impossible to perform at peak levels if you are always waiting for your equipment to fail.btw i will be at the fla match this weekend and any one wanting to try a 9x19 open gun is welcome to try mine. also btw i have either owned or shot guns from most of the major gunsmiths that are currently building open guns and think that the commander 9x19 set up is by far the best i've used.

[PaulW]

JL,

The gun built for me was exclusively setup for major 9, not both. My gun worked 100% with the STI inserts, without I would get a nose dive type of jam usually from the first round out of the mag. I do think I would have been better off if I had more comp instead of the smallest I could find (running Brazos short comp). The big stick did give me fits but that is a whole other story. WIll it work YES, is it better than super, I would have to say NO. 1 grain less powder is that much less gas volume to work with. You are still pretty limited as to what powder/bullet combo you run. Cost of brass is the only real savings but the less efficient trade off isn't worth it in my case. I am NOT against major 9 and if you like it great. If your customers like it even better. I'm sure we'll be seeing more major 9's built, but I would be surprised if the big dowgs went to it. TOO RESTRICTIVE in my opinion.

[JL Hardy]

paul, the things mentioned above are exactly why the 9 major works best in a commander length. the shorter barrel allows the gasses to get out to the comp. also the lighter weight of the commander set up has less weight moving so the dot moves less. this is the same theory that brazos uses in his shortened govt guns. by the way Bobs's guns work real well too. also on major 9x19 you can take advantage of the shorter oal with the short stroke of the commander. hope to see ya at fla.jlh

[PaulW]

JL,

Sounds viable to me but shooting it would really prove it. I hope you don't think I was knocking it or you, as I said I know it will work, just felt it too limiting. To each there own and at least we can try and experiment and even get it to work now. Yep, we'll see you at the FL State, maybe we can take a trip to the plate rack and let me test drive your setup?

Paul

PS - Oh yea, you were also right about the commander slide on Government frame, thanks for the tip, although you were pretty vaugue about it.

[JL Hardy]

paul, sometimes being vague spurs other people to investigate possibilities. and i do hope we can find time for you to try out these guns. i have two new ones with different comps that i would like an opinion on. see ya there. and i didn't at all take it that you were knocking on anyone. good shooting jlh

[PaulW]

Well I had a chance this weekend to shoot a couple of the Guns JL has built in major 9. His setup is definately better than what I was trying to work with. Now the 2 guns I shot they did feel quit different to me. The one track a little high and right while the second one was more vertical. The shorter gun does hit a little harder in the hand and is a little snappier. The two loads I was shooting were with SP2 powder and 3n38. Both felt pretty good with a maybe a slight edge to the SP2. Both guns felt solid and responded nicely to quick shots. I personally liked the setup with larger side posts. It felt a little better and had less horizontal movement. If anyone is interested in major 9 I think JL's setup is the way to go.

[eerw]

PaulW and JL..any chance you guys got any photos of your setups..they all sound interesting..

[Singlestack]

I personally liked the setup with larger side posts.

Did you mean "ports" Paul?

[PaulW]

Yes I did, mis-typed sorry.

[Carlos]

I am also interested in your setup, JL, if you would not mind sharing a few details. So far, it looks like a full size S_I frame w/ a commander length slide/barrel and a threaded comp., but what about hybrid holes - are there any?

Also, what would you think of one of Wil Schueman's built-in compensators (hybri-comp) barrels in commander length? It would make for a VERY short open gun with theoretically less mass to swing between targets.

[JL Hardy]

carlos, i have built the guns using both a cone type comp on a threaded barrel and using schumans hybricomp barrel. the cone comp is actually shorter. i build these guns on a sti frame set up using commander specs. the cone comp gun can actually use a longer comp and still be the same length or shorter than the hybricomp. i have used either two or three hybrid holes. if you are considering using a compensated barrel without a threaded on comp i have no experience with these.

[Chriss Grube]

The Tribrid works great. It is lighter than any comp setup.

[Mad Scientist]

Major 9 ,

Is a definate viable platform that as time goes on will be the cartrige of choice among IPSC shooters . think of the rounds that can be asymbled per dollar verses supercomp. I personaly just ordered 5000 casses for the same cost (shiped) as 1000 supercomp pieces.

Most top shooters will tell you the way to get good at this sport is to put large numbers of rounds down range. for the same budget you can shoot a lot more with 9 . Look at how many times you go to the range and spend half of your time picking up brass. at.005$ per round you would have to find and reload your super brass 8 times to break even .

I would rather shoot lots and spend my time seting up stages to run

this is a real benifit with minamal investment.

There are other platforms available like the glock that will work very well.so your choices are not limeted . I have built several Glock race guns and my results are a gun that is 4to5 oz lighter and just as flat as most of the guns on the market. I shot a glock at area 6 and had troble ajusting to the weight diference but with a little time I am confident I will

adjust. at area six I had two matches with the glock . I did manage one top ten run and shot in my class so the gun is verry capable.

you can see the prototype in the Glock forum under 9x19 "got to play withone"

Johnnie