Private Transfer Via FFL

[EricW]

I just got hit with a juicy little turd today: Apparently if I buy a firearm from a private party and have it shipped to an FFL, I need a copy of the seller's driver's license in order to complete the transfer. This is a first for me. I've completed probably a dozen transfers this way now and NEVER have had to do this until today. Fortunately the seller is being a good guy and sending me a copy of his driver's license (THANK YOU RODNEY!!).

Personally, I think this is horseshit. A copy of someone's DL is about 95 to 100% of the information you need to engage in identity theft - depending on what state you live in. I know that in Oregon, your DL# is your SS#. I would have reservations about making a private party sale if this was a requirement.

Shouldn't a bill of sale be sufficient?

[Joseph796]

It is the preferred practice today for a private seller shipping a gun to an FFL to provide a copy of seller's driver's license. There are lots of reason for this. Bills of sale are not enough to protect public concerns. My suggestion, simply block out your Driver's License Number and you have less to worry about.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Joseph796

[Flatland Shooter]

I've never heard of this. Is it something new? Have you used this FFL in the past without the DL requirement?

Bill

Edited May 18, 2007 by Flatland Shooter

[chuckbradley]

I just took a gun in I purchased from an individual I didnt know. I required a copy of his license. the check was made out to the name on the license and went to the address on the license. That was to protect me business wise but the FFL has to know who it came from to log it into his book. I am not sure if the Drivers license copy is required by ATF but more and more FFL's are requiring it to protect themselves.

I know in KY they used to use the Social for the drivers license number but they changed that like 10 years ago. I dont know of any other state that still uses the social for the number.

[Flatland Shooter]

Chuck,

Joseph796 recommended blacking out the DL number. On a Texas DL, once that is missing, the remaining information (name, address and picture) is not all that threatening if worried about ID theft.

I know each dealer may have their own requirements, but as an FFL holder, would a license with the number missing be acceptable to you?

Bill

[open17]

. A copy of someone's DL is about 95 to 100% of the information you need to engage in identity theft - depending on what state you live in. I know that in Oregon, your DL# is your SS#.

Wrong---Your DL is NOT your SS# in Oregon. I've been a licensed driver in Oregon for

quite a while, and my DL# bears no similarity to my SS#. That said, I agree 100% that a Bill of Sale should be more than enough. Who is requiring the sellers DL? Local? State? Fed?

This is the first I've ever heard of it.

[EricW]

I'm blotting out a couple #'s on the DL# and the DOB for the seller of the rifle. If somebody doesn't like it, they can stick it. I don't mind providing bills of sale, but compromising people's personal info really sticks in my craw.

. A copy of someone's DL is about 95 to 100% of the information you need to engage in identity theft - depending on what state you live in. I know that in Oregon, your DL# is your SS#.

Wrong---Your DL is NOT your SS# in Oregon. I've been a licensed driver in Oregon for

quite a while, and my DL# bears no similarity to my SS#. That said, I agree 100% that a Bill of Sale should be more than enough. Who is requiring the sellers DL? Local? State? Fed?

This is the first I've ever heard of it.

They must haved changed it, because I'm pretty sure it used to be. Or maybe it was Idaho. But I know states used to do it. Regardless, a DL # is also used as an identifier in establishing credit identity, so there's some risk there IMO.

I also think a copied/scanned/faxed ID card is a false sense of security. Once you digitize, it's a very small effort to forge it into a false identity.

FWIW....

[JaredB]

Did your FFL receive from the sellers FFL? Or did he receive directly from a individual?

One would think that if the firearm was received from another FFL that would negate the requirement for a copy of the sellers DL.

[chuckbradley]

You just cant buy/sell guns via the internet without knowing who the other party is.

If you buy a gun then for some reason it gets checked or you report it stolen and it comes up stolen you best be able to show who it was you bought it from. A bill of sale isnt really enough.

The drivers license number is not a number that establishes credit identity. it is simply a number that ties you to that license. Most , if not all states have done away the social on the license just for this reason.

The license is no big deal and if somebody refuses it when buying from a stranger I wouldnt buy it.

[Nik Habicht]

I've been through this a bit with my FFL earlier this year: His basic take is that if the gun's coming to him direct from the seller, he'd like the seller to include a copy of his DL. That copy gets used to log the gun in properly --- in much the same way that he requires a seller in the store to provide a license.

If the gun's coming from another FFL, they typically toss a file copy of their license in with the gun, which provides the pertinent info.

Eric,

have you been able to sell guns when walking into the local shop without showing your license?

[EricW]

Eric,

have you been able to sell guns when walking into the local shop without showing your license?

Never sold a gun in a gunstore. Never sent a copy of my DL to anyone I sold a gun to.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge now. I have the rifle. The dealer has his copy of the DL. I now know to ask in the future. I just really hate making a deal with someone to sell me X in exchange for Y, *then* going back and asking them for more. I feel like I'm breaking the deal then. So, I'll compensate the seller for his trouble. I tipped the FFL clerk whose head I tore off over the phone today. And the rifle is perfect, so all will be right with the world as soon as I can hit the range and zero it in.

[chuckbradley]

So what kind of Rifle?

I got a rifle from one of our own a couple weeks ago and I didnt get a copy of his DL but I have been doing business with him for years so I didnt need to.

[EricW]

Rock River AR, 20" mid-weight bbl with a JP V-Tac handguard. Already have the stock changed out to an A-2 (ACE didn't work with my LOP and stockweld) and the Meopta is on top with the Larue mount.

I'm pretty tickled - the trigger is nearly perfect. The bolt / carrier is slick as silk. The scope and mount boresighted almost perfectly with no scope adjustments. Hand-cycled a mag through the rifle (dummies). I don't foresee any feeding issues.

I looked a few RR M-4's in the local gunstore and got a little buyer's remorse before my rifle arrived. The M-4's weren't as nice as other RR's I've seen. Fortunately, this rifle totally exceeded my expectations. The upper/lower fit is perfect. No wedge required.

The only thing I'm not 100% happy about is the Meopta. The zoom ring is so fragile that it's broken already. Meopta never responded to my request on what it takes to get a new ring. But that's OK. I'm going to replace the zoom stop screw (flathead) with big knob to make zoom changes easier. I didn't need the rubber ring anyway.

I can see a few more RR ARs in my near future. Pretty killer value.

Edited May 19, 2007 by EricW