John K Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I read last night about reloading in the Beyond Fundamentals book. Great Book. My question is. I came froma glock to a 1911. My hands are fairly large. When I relaoded my Glock I stripped away the old mag with the weak hand. In BE's book he says that he had his gun grip modified to allow him to use this strong hand thumb for the the mag release. I have been told by some that the strong hand runs the grip safety, trigger and thumb safety and the weak hand does the rest. By doing this the grip never changes for the strong hand. But In BE's book he says that he goes right to the loaded mag with the weak hand. In order for me to do this with my stock Kimber in an IDPA stage I would have to change my grip with the strong hand to do the same as BE. If I am not inclined to modify the gun to allow my thumb to run the mag release, is there another way to accomplish the reload more efficiently? Sorry for rambling, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Just to understand this a little better. Are you looking to work on a USPSA reload or the IDPA reload? Thanks! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I shift the gun in my hand to hit the mag release with my strong hand and it works just fine for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Obviously I have no idea who suggested using the support hand to activate everything but the grip safety, thumb safety and trigger, but it's nothing I've heard before. Lots of people use the support hand to operate the slide release as it's easy and doesn't cost time. I don't know anyone that's competitive that uses their support hand to activate the mag release...that's not to say that it can't be done that way. Most people slighty rock the gun to the side in the strong hand to hit the mag release while the support hand is getting the fresh mag. Doing it the way you've described would take almost twice as long since you're using the same hand for two things instead of one. That means the other guy is shooting around the time you're getting your hand on the fresh mag...ouch! If I recall correctly Benos just milled a slight groove in the grip panel (not actually modifying the gun) to make it easier for his thumb to get to the mag release. Even with that done most people will have to adjust their grip a little bit to get to the mag release. Honestly, with a little practice I think it's a total non-issue. I can't ever recall getting a bad grip after a reload because my hand had to move a little to hit the release. In fact, I can remember times when I'd started a stage with an okay grip, but not perfect, and the reload allowed me to get it perfect because I had to shift my hand a little. YMMV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Obviously I have no idea who suggested using the support hand to activate everything but the grip safety, thumb safety and trigger, but it's nothing I've heard before. I'm aware of some very "go to" guys that teach to keep your fighting grip on the gun, and to operate the mag release with the off hand. (Which also allows for stripping out the spent mag.) These are some of the first guys I'd go to if I wanted to learn close-range self-defense (wrestling with guns and such). I'm still all about shifting my grip to get to a speed reload, but I've read where they make a good enough case that I can't dismiss their experience and I don't know anyone that's competitive that uses their support hand to activate the mag release...that's not to say that it can't be done that way. There are a few. I believe Julie G. does so, for instance. More and more, she is at the top of the scores for Major matches. I don't like it, for the same reasons that you mentioned. I want me weak hand going for the new mag while my strong hand is getting the button pushed. (I like to say the two hands are racing each other. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Matches are also about economy of motion/action, I don't like to be careless with time if I can help it, it hurts everytime. Consider modifactions (grip panels, mainspring housing, beavertail) that would position your strong hand thumb in a better location to hit the mag release without shifting your grip or learn to quickly shift your grip and get the support hand moving when the sights lift at the moment before the reload is necessary. In IDPA many times the reload can be the difference between a stage win or loss because the reload must be preformed in accordance with the rules and a .5 sec (or likely more) lost while reloading is tuff to make up elsewhere on a stage. Add up all the lost time at a match and you get the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 We have discussed this before. IIRC we started talking about flipping the spent mag out of the gun. It was years ago but I remember it being a good thread. I'll do some searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irate Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 +1 to Jake, I shift the gun when I reload my Glock and my 1911, a little more with one than the other Irate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Wow, what a trip down memory lane that search took me on. No wonder I remembered something about the thread from 4 years ago. I started it. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ipping&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 (edited) Obviously I have no idea who suggested using the support hand to activate everything but the grip safety, thumb safety and trigger, but it's nothing I've heard before. I'm aware of some very "go to" guys that teach to keep your fighting grip on the gun, and to operate the mag release with the off hand. (Which also allows for stripping out the spent mag.) These are some of the first guys I'd go to if I wanted to learn close-range self-defense (wrestling with guns and such). I'm still all about shifting my grip to get to a speed reload, but I've read where they make a good enough case that I can't dismiss their experience and I don't know anyone that's competitive that uses their support hand to activate the mag release...that's not to say that it can't be done that way. There are a few. I believe Julie G. does so, for instance. More and more, she is at the top of the scores for Major matches. I don't like it, for the same reasons that you mentioned. I want me weak hand going for the new mag while my strong hand is getting the button pushed. (I like to say the two hands are racing each other. ) That's interesting stuff. I'm guessing it's sort of like the methods the Mossad in Israel teach. I wonder if that method came about when the first Glocks hit the scene and the mags wouldn't drop free and you had to strip them out. I'll have to ask my boss about it as he was a firearms instructor at Quantico for many years and worked with most of the go to guys out there. I know the current method that's getting taught there is pretty much like a typical IPSC reload, just that you're supposed to still be watching the threat as you do it. Wow, I had no idea Julie G. reloaded like that...interesting. She's certainly been successful with it...whatever works! Do you think that's more out of necessity than choice? She's not a large person, by any standards, and it wouldn't suprise me if the amount she had to twist the gun was just way too much to be smooth and repeatable under pressure...better to be a bit slower and 100% than totally flub them from time to time. I've got to think that purely for competition, anybody that wants to be competitive, and can do so, would be better served by working the mag release with the strong hand except those lefties who have that one advantage on the shooting world! I like the idea of the two hands racing each other...great way to put it....I think I'll steal that one from you Edited May 8, 2007 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I've been toying around with the idea of putting on a S&A auto ambi-mag catch: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/Pro...+AMBI-MAG+CATCH You can use your strong-hand index finger to release the mag. I met Bob Novak at the Single Stack Classic. He has a really nice reverse mag release made by a guy named Mitchell in Texas. It sells for around $120 and it was really nice. I've been searching Google and found an article from 3/1/05's American Hangunner. I think it's called the Mitchell Mag Masher, but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 (edited) I have always used my trigger finger to press the mag release on my HK USP. With my STI Edge, I installed a Mitchell right sided mag release. A little work had to be done for ergonomics (trimmed it a bit so I don't press it during grip), but it made the transition from the USP to the Edge minimal. I still use my trigger finger to press the mag release. (no finger in trigger guard during mag change) If you have to pull your mags out it is never good..........smooth out your mags by possibly sanding off the spots that make it stick, and look for imperfections or left over pieces of plactic inside the glock mag well. Edited May 8, 2007 by Mo Hepworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Mo, Do you have Mitchell's number or website? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 http://www.bulletworks.com/ very help full folks, emailed me very quickly..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Mo, Thanks!! I went nuts trying to find this number. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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