Adam B Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I have been looking at the WITNESS ELITE GOLD in 9mm, does anyone have one? I am concerned that it would be tough to make major in 9mm with all of those ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 The rest of the world only has to make 160PF to get major, whereas we have to go to 165. With 8.5 of N350 I can get 173PF with my .38 Super. You would need something similar with 9mm and it's going to be a compressed load, I think. If you have a choice I would go for the .38 Super instead. The brass will last longer but won't be as cheap... I suspect that the overall cost would be the same taking into account that the 9mm brass won't last as long. From searching around it appears that a potential load would be 31,5mm OAL with 8.7 grains of SP2 with 125 grain bullet... Makes 165PF. That OAL is about the same OAL as .38 Super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Will the Witness hold up to a realistic diet of major in the 170 to 175 PF range? (Assuming that the EGW slide stop pin is already taken care of.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) I was wondering the same thing, about one in 9mm, rather than 38 Super, that is..... thats alot of vented gas to overcome for the 9 Major, with the V-8 or V-10 porting I'd wager. Keeping the discussion to if the 9mm version of the Elite Gold Team would be practical (or even possible) for 165 pf Open, in regards to case size, loads, pressures with the V-10 porting, durability of gun at 9 Major pressures, would interest me more than another Super vs. 9 major discussion. Maybe a 9mm Gold Team with an older unported barrel & regular comp would work better for generating 165 pf or better? You could even maybe add a couple small ports if needed, without going hogwild with 8 or 10. Edited April 24, 2007 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Henny...? I guess a call to EGW is in order. It'd be really sweet to have a Tanfoglio set up with two top ends, one IPSC, one steel. Now that Henny's selling tuned mags, I'm running out of excuses not to jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 This particular gun, with a BarSto barrel, shoots major 9 with no problem. There are plenty of these old frames in 9x21 out there that have held up for years/1k's of rounds. With 7.8 gr. of HS6 and 124 Montana Gold I make 170 power factor, and 6.6 Power Pistol is 166. I think the Power Pistol load could be bumped up a bit, but I haven't done it yet. Not a V-8 or V-10, just a 4 banger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) I don't want one of the old ones, I want the fancy new one! Edited April 24, 2007 by boynty77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReyesR Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I have last years model of the witness gold in the 9mm major. If you ask Henning he prefers the 38 super. I have mine working great using HS6, 125 grain JHP Zeros, loaded to 1.15 aol. It runs great. Only draw back is that you have to make your own 170 mm mags and doing a fast reload is slightly difficult than sv/sti mags. I have the CPMI base pads and now use Grams followers and springs. It took me awhile to make everything work. But now that it works I am happy with it. This thing really shoot flat!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I have last years model of the witness gold in the 9mm major. If you ask Henning he prefers the 38 super. I have mine working great using HS6, 125 grain JHP Zeros, loaded to 1.15 aol.It runs great. Only draw back is that you have to make your own 170 mm mags and doing a fast reload is slightly difficult than sv/sti mags. I have the CPMI base pads and now use Grams followers and springs. It took me awhile to make everything work. But now that it works I am happy with it. This thing really shoot flat!!!!!!!!! Have you tried any longer loads, like 1.165 or so? Seems like longer would feed better in Super mags, and give more case room for the load... but hey, glad to hear you got yours working on 9 major! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 If you ask Henning he prefers the 38 super. I have mine working great using HS6, 125 grain JHP Zeros, loaded to 1.15 aol.It runs great. . . . But now that it works I am happy with it. This thing really shoot flat!!!!!!!!! Graufel - who gets his ammo for free - also said something to that effect over on the ISPC global village. Maybe if .38 sup were cheap and 9mm was expensive, I would go for super - but it looks like 9mm will work fine & I am not sure that people have really tried loading it long for the Gold Team - on the order of 1.160 to 1.180 with certain bullets. Henning - are the 9mm guns also throated for long-loaded ammo? BTW - the guns from about 1990 were fed 9mm ammo at 180+ power factor - and they were the small framed guns! The newer guns are much larger and can only be stronger than the ones from 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 BTW - the guns from about 1990 were fed 9mm ammo at 180+ power factor - and they were the small framed guns! The newer guns are much larger and can only be stronger than the ones from 15 years ago. This is true but the guns back then did not have the holes in the barrel. This effects a large difference in the amount of powder required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReyesR Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Loading long is a problem since the throat depth will not allow to chamber the longer rounds. I have tried loading to 1.17 and it wont chamber the rounds. The slide will not fully close. I tried 1.165 and sometimes it doesn't work. I finally decided to load to 1.15 and have good luck with it since. I also ask EGW to throat is longer but George said that they dont have the reamer for it??????? I wish someone here can help. I think that if I get this throated it will open up more powder selections. The gun has a 3 hole and a small pop hole on the comp., plus has 8 total (4 per side) pop holes on the slide/barrel itself. I wish I knew how to post with pictures. Loading long is a problem since the throat depth will not allow to chamber the longer rounds. I have tried loading to 1.17 and it wont chamber the rounds. The slide will not fully close. I tried 1.165 and sometimes it doesn't work. I finally decided to load to 1.15 and have good luck with it since. I also ask EGW to throat is longer but George said that they dont have the reamer for it??????? I wish someone here can help. I think that if I get this throated it will open up more powder selections. The gun has a 3 hole and a small pop hole on the comp., plus has 8 total (4 per side) pop holes on the slide/barrel itself. I wish I knew how to post with pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 To show pictures, just click the Choose File button below the edit window. And select your picture and then click 'Add this Attachment'. Keep the pictures small to aid downloading for everyone with slow dial-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 email me the pics and I will host them on my server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) I have tried loading to 1.17 and it wont chamber the rounds. The slide will not fully close. I tried 1.165 and sometimes it doesn't work. I finally decided to load to 1.15 and have good luck with it since. I also ask EGW to throat is longer but George said that they dont have the reamer for it??????? I wish someone here can help. I think that if I get this throated it will open up more powder selections.The gun has a 3 hole and a small pop hole on the comp., plus has 8 total (4 per side) pop holes on the slide/barrel itself. I wish I knew how to post with pictures. That is unfortunate. I know that the SV/STIs come throated to accept 1.170 and even longer. A 9mm chamber reamer works on any 9mm barrel. Also, longer OAL 9mm ammo might address whatever feeding concerns that Graufel had in choosing an unlimited free supply of .38 super over 9mm major. Agree that all those holes may make 9Major more difficult - but again, that would be off set if the 9mm could be loaded longer than 1.160". Edited April 25, 2007 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 A 9mm chamber reamer works on any 9mm barrel. I don't think they work on a polygonal barrel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockSpeed31 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 A 9mm chamber reamer works on any 9mm barrel. I don't think they work on a polygonal barrel... But, wouldn't the chamber be round, not polygonal? Unless it's an HK P7 series style that has chamber flutes, it shouldn't matter. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReyesR Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I hope this works. My first attempt in attaching pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Swweeeeet. Who make that scope mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReyesR Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 In regards to the reamer, from what I understand being a polygon rifling, the standard 9mm reamers out there are to tight for this barrel. If there are any gunsmith out there that that can shine in and perhaps can perform the throating of my gun, I would like them to contact me. But at least for now my gun runs without any problems! I am happy with the 9mm, but please don't tell Henning this. The 38 super comp does have its advantages from its case design to more powder choices due to longer case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockSpeed31 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I hope this works. My first attempt in attaching pics. So, how many pennies does that cost? I am starting to get the open gun bug again and trying to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReyesR Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 The gun cost me $1400 with for mags. Does not include the cmore, carbon fiber scope mount and thumb rest. The carbon is from Eric Graufel. I wanted to have the same look as his gun. It is not cheap!!!! But thats just me. I wanted to pimp it out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 That is a real nice looking gun! I checked all over town in the last few days and it seems like these guns are next to impossible to get, what gives? I was given a 30-180 delivery period and they wanted $1680. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 That is a real nice looking gun! I checked all over town in the last few days and it seems like these guns are next to impossible to get, what gives? I was given a 30-180 delivery period and they wanted $1680. You should probably send an email to Henning, maybe he can get them cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 That is a real nice looking gun! I checked all over town in the last few days and it seems like these guns are next to impossible to get, what gives? I was given a 30-180 delivery period and they wanted $1680. Which is why EAA needs to go away and Henny needs to become The Man. How can there not be a market for 1/2 price IPSC heaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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