Case Trimming Really A Waste Of Time?

[mobocracy]

For .223?

I just picked up my first AR-15 today and the guy at the reloading side of the fun shop was giving me the lowdown on reloading .223 and said I would need to trim my brass about ever 3 firings.

I was pretty surprised to see Brian's FAQ statement that you can by and large get away without trimming. Is this true for .223, at least with the condition of starting with new brass and firing it in the same gun?

None of the trimming options seem entirely appealing, so I'd kind of like it to be true. The Dillon trimmer seems the most automagic, but there's the vacuum noise problem and some appear to complain of a chamfering and deburring being required. Also, does it have to be used with the trim/size die or can it be used with a standard size die?

The other trimmers people get behind (Giraud and Gracey) are both expensive and appear to be a lot more "hand" work than the Dillon which can size at the same time as well as taking advantage of the case feeder.

I'm not looking for super-ultra-magic 600 yard tack driving performance, either, although small groups do give you a warm feeling..

[Patrick Sweeney]

The short answer is: "You don't have to trim until you do." And then you need it badly. You can get scary-high pressures from brass that needs trimming.

One way to avoid the whole hassle is to stock up on brass. Then, when you need to reload your brass, you send it off to one of the processors like River Valley Ordnance. (They don't do less than 2,000 at a whack.)

Send it clean, and they'll size, deprime, trim and take care of the brass for something like $25/thousand. (Doing this from memory from the laptop, on the road.)

When it gets back, you just have to feed it into your press.

[benos]

The Trim Die cannot decap, so one way to do it is to trim first, in a separate Toolhead, then

you'll re-size again as you're loading the round in another toolhead.

Another way to do is to size/deprime in Station #1, then set up the trim Die to trim in Station #3 on a 550 (or another station for a 650/1050). Now, you won't have to re-size "again," but, the cases will not have been neck-sized (by the expander), so the bullet will fit into the case "a little tighter." Which isn't a problem.

Theoretically, you "should" re-size again after trimming because you cannot neck-size while trimming. But in practice you should not have to re-size again unless you are using flat base bullets, in which case you'd have to chamfer the case mouth anyway.

be

[mobocracy]

The short answer is: "You don't have to trim until you do." And then you need it badly. You can get scary-high pressures from brass that needs trimming.

One way to avoid the whole hassle is to stock up on brass. Then, when you need to reload your brass, you send it off to one of the processors like River Valley Ordnance. (They don't do less than 2,000 at a whack.)

Send it clean, and they'll size, deprime, trim and take care of the brass for something like $25/thousand. (Doing this from memory from the laptop, on the road.)

When it gets back, you just have to feed it into your press.

An interesting option, thanks for the suggestion. If you get 3 firings before trimming (and I have no idea what the "real" number is for midrange loads in an AR), it would only add like $12 or so to the cost of a case of reloads and save a ton of time and the investment in trimming equipment.

Although I did see that name pop up recently in AR15.com with a number of complaints about turnaround.

[TBF]

If you trim short by .020 or so the first time you trim , just check to make sure it's not too long and load it til it needs another trim ( my brass rarely survives long enough to need it , case rims get beat up, and getting stepped on in gravel , and lost in grass , Etc. ).

Just .020 from some guy who is lazy.

Too long could be a VERY bad thing.

Travis F.

[D.Hayden]

I don't keep track of the brass.. If you pick up 'strange' range brass (preferably once fired police stuff, etc) along with your own, you have to go through it all anyway,at least to measure it and see if it needs trimming, and just in case some military crimped primer cases sneak in.

I've found, it's just eaiser for me to always run it through the complete case prep:

I go (on a 1050):

1) Sizer/decap (does a partial size so there's less effort on the trim size step

2) Swage

3) Trimmer

4) Sizer again, just to expand the case mouth (like Brian refered to above).

The biggest cost of haivng someone else do it, is probably the shipping?

[mobocracy]

I don't keep track of the brass.. If you pick up 'strange' range brass (preferably once fired police stuff, etc) along with your own, you have to go through it all anyway,at least to measure it and see if it needs trimming, and just in case some military crimped primer cases sneak in.

I've found, it's just eaiser for me to always run it through the complete case prep:

I go (on a 1050):

1) Sizer/decap (does a partial size so there's less effort on the trim size step

2) Swage

3) Trimmer

4) Sizer again, just to expand the case mouth (like Brian refered to above).

The biggest cost of haivng someone else do it, is probably the shipping?

Is the sizer in your step 4 different from the sizer in your step 1? If not, why does the case mouth need to be expanded a second time -- wouldn't it get expanded properly in step 1? Or does the trimmer/size step 3 do something to the case mouth?

[D.Hayden]

It's the same type of sizer, although it can be just a neck sizer.

It's not really needed here, since you'll proably have a sizer on the toolhead when you reload anyways (just to get rid of any tumbling media that may have stuck in the primer hole when you tumble the lube off - but you could use a universal deprimer later, and then, this step makes sense).

When you trim, the neck is sized down, normally on a resize die, the expander comes back up the cae mouth after sizing, the trim/size die can't do that.

There's lots of die options to use at the different stations: full length resizers, neck reziers and universal deprimmers..

To make it easier, just pretend I never said that, just put that die in the toolhead awhen you reload.

[mobocracy]

To make it easier, just pretend I never said that, just put that die in the toolhead awhen you reload.

Nono, I really want to know what all the options and techniques are before I buy a bunch of equipment and discover I'm on the wrong technique or bought the wrong equipment for the right technique...

I have a 650 I use for a bunch of pistol calibers, but this is my first rifle caliber. From what I've read thusfar, either the Dillon or the Giraud trimmer sounds like the best, get-it-done-with-minimal-BS option available. I like the Dillon option because I can set it up and use the rest of the casefeed automation to get it done with very, very minimal handwork.

The Giraud sounds like its regarded as the BMW/Lexus of its type, since its well built and does it all, including chamfering. But then you're into case-at-a-time handwork.