George D Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 I've shot double action revolvers for many years but have just bought my first auto, a S&W 945, which is very like a 1911. Can I have some advice on the position of the right thumb (for RH shooter) while firing the pistol. Should it be under the thumb-safety or on the safety holding it down? If under, should the thumb be touching the pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradC Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 I think a picture says it best... Thanks to Matt Burkett for having awesome pictures and resources available online =) BradC A46143 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 not THAT good of a pic. The general way of shooting is to allow your hand to ride atop of the thumb saftey while shooting. this helps get a higher position on the gun to control recoil and prevents accidental engagment of the saftey. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 11, 2002 Author Share Posted October 11, 2002 Thanks to Brad and Steve for the advice. I found the photo of Matt Burkett to be of interest in looking at the focus of his eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradC Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 True, not the best angle for the purpose I was trying for. But it saved me from having to try and explain to my wife why I wanted to take a picture of just my hands and gun =) BradC A46143 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 The good thing about right thumb on top of safety is that you expose more of the grip panel for your left hand palm. You also prevent the safety from accidentally getting bumped on, you get a higher overall grip (especially when you narrow the beaver tail) thus reducing muzzle flip. You might also account for some downward pressure on the safety also reducing muzzle flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 All that's true. The best thing about the high thumb grip, I find, is that it automatically depresses the thumb safety so you don't have the worry of forgetting to disengage it at speed, or under stress. When the way you grip the gun automatically (pun intended) depresses the safety, you don't even have to think about it. It's important to realize the safety doesn't get pushed downward to disengage until the two hands meet and the gun is pointed at the target. NOT in the holster with first hand contact to the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 Where exactly is Matt's weak thumb in relationship to the frame. I've been agonizing lately of whether I should change my grip and adopt a thumbs off aproach to the weak thumb. The problem is as soon as I'm about to work on the new grip I see a picture of a GM (and not a paper one, a real one) like Matt or Rob with their thumbs on the frame. (or atleast it looks that way) Please help out on this one. To float the thumb or not to float the thumb. That is the question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 12, 2002 Author Share Posted October 12, 2002 Dowter, I've been wondering the same thing. In "The Book" (Page 42) Brian says " Both thumbs are pointed at the target, but neither touches the gun", but in another recent thread he says that he clamps down on the safety. ??? Mondo confuso for us mere mortals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 I vote to float. Pat Harrison and a few others don't have a problem with letting the thumb touch. I sure do though. With the thumb touching, any tension that you have is transferred into pressure which will make the gun track differently. Match stress, or real life stress, will result in steering the gun with the thumb (whether you want to or not). Pat likely can get away with that. He has much more experience than I do, and he likely has less stress in a match too. I know that in the recent Tri-State Section match I hit a few C's on second shots that I can trace back to tension, and likely steering the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradC Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 I go with the thumb on gun approach. I put a small bit of grip tape as an index point to help verify that I have my grip in the same place every time. I don't put any positive pressure on the frame, but I am aware of it touching my thumb. Try it all, see what you like! BradC A46143 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 BradC, That's exactly what I did with the grip tape. I don't feel like I'm steering. My weak thumb on the frame just feels like an extension at my attempt at a neutral grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 14, 2002 Author Share Posted October 14, 2002 Flexmoney, Was you "vote to float" referring to the weak thumb or the safety thumb or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Since I floated my thumb and not letting it touch the frame I've had tremendous results with my accuracy. It's strange, at least for me, not to have done this sort of grip experiment sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 George D, My weak hand thumb, I try to keep it off the frame...completely. The idea is to point both thumbs at the target. On a 1911, I keep the strong hand thumb on the safety, but (of course) off the slide. The big idea (in my mind) is to not try to steer the gun with the thumbs. As the body's tension changes (under stress) so does the ability to properly steer. Maybe the dot gun guys can see if they are "steering" a bit easier... but, it's hard to tell when running at high speed with iron sights while going for super fast splits on targets. (The gun needs to return to the same place ever time after recoil. Steering with the thumbs alters can alter this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 14, 2002 Author Share Posted October 14, 2002 Thanks Flexmoney for that clarifcation. There seems to be some variation in preference regarding the weak thumb position in relation to the frame but unanimous agreement on this forum that the other thumb should ride on the safety. I'm glad I sought advice here because the auto "experts?" in my club scoffed at the idea, insisting that the rear thumb should be under the safety when firing. Thanks to all for the comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 George_D, FWIW, I have a friend who just bought his first Para-Ord. He is used to the weak thumb over strong thumb grip (hence, strong thumb under safety). However, once in a while he will accidentally bump the safety on (he has short thick fingers). Now he's trying his best to use my grip style (thumbs pointing forward, etc.) According to him "it feels weird but nothing a good dry fire routine will fix." Tough little bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 mcoliver, I agree with your friend, the high grip does feel weird, especially for a revolver shooter starting with his first auto. I sought advice in this forum because I wanted to get the grip right from the beginning. I believe in the saying "start as you mean to finish". But it feels weird never the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 George, lol...A lot of this stuff feels weird to start with...I had to switch from a weaver stance to the iso. when I started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 Flexmoney, Your right there. When I started shooting double handed I felt comfortable in an isosceles stance with an open foot postion. A got some coaching from a local "expert" who insisted that I should shift my right foot back, tilt my head over my shooting arm and adopt a weaver like posture. I felt a bit like a contortionist. Now I have read in Brian's book that he found a stance almost identical to the one which I originally found comfortable so I am reverting back to that. It certainly helps if you're put on the right track to begin with. (Edited by George D at 2:06 pm on Oct. 16, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 Need some help here guys. I've always been a revolver shooter so I'm new to the 1911 (S&W 945). I've been working on the high grip discussed in this thread but I have been getting intermittent misfires, particularly when prone. When I examine the failed round it has a very light firing-pin indent. It has been suggested to me that the problem may be that the high thumb grip may be lifting my thumd pad and taking pressure off the grip safety and the firing pin is clipping the safety and loosing momentum. The guys in my club all shoot with their thumbs under the slide safety and when I have tried this the problem hasn't occurred, but as I said the problem is intermittent. Any suggestions or experiences please. (Edited by George D at 1:24 pm on Oct. 30, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Although I've never heard of that happening, I haven't been around the world of shooting for that long. If that is the case though, the easiest thing would probably be to pin the grip safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 Hi Jake, What do you mean "pin the safety"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 There are various ways to do it, but basically you deactivate the grip safety as to where the safety is always disengaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 Aaah....... (is that entirely legal?) Thanks for the tip. I can try this easily by just taping the grip safety down. Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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