Like and Dislikes

[JFD]

I'm about to become a MD and have little experience.  I feel like good stage design is a key to attracting new shooters to our fading local club, so I need help.  Keep in mind that I really have no knowledge of of any "known" stage gripes or things that shooters just hate.

I do know that I don't like shooting boxes, but can deal with "shooting areas", since we have 1 bay where these make sense.  

I don't like no-shoots plastered all over the place.  Seems like a lazy way to add difficulty to what is probably not a very good stage.  I prefer no-shoots to block the targets, forcing shooters to move in order to expose the targets behind the no-shoots.  If the stage has little movement, then a little plastering seems like it could be a good thing.  If this is poor thinking on my part, then let me know.  

I like steel of all kinds but think that swingers, and disappearing targets should be used sparingly.  I do love a lot of poppers and plates though.  I'd also like to use bowling pins and clay pigeons occasionally.

I prefer a mix of ranges.  A few that get powder burns are OK, but most should be 7 - 10 yards, with a sprinkling at  15 - 20 yards, and a few at 25 - 30 yards.  if I could have that kind of mix in a single stage, I think that would be ideal.  However the reality of our bays says that will not happen.

I also like it when "slots" are used in a stage.  It forces movement and tends to confuse newbies like myself to some degree.  

I would think a piece of burlap or something over a port would make shooting that target array a little more interesting, with a new piece of burlap for each shooter.  Of course this kind of thing could be seen as "clownish" but I just don't know.

Any likes and/or dislikes would be greatly appreciated, as I need to become an "A" class stage designer (or just need to know what to steal off the web), but only have "C" class experience.  If any of my ideas listed above are stupid, be sure to clue me in.

I've collected all of Jeff Maass' stages as well as all of the classification stages, so any other resources would be greatly appreciated.  I'm going to be doing some more searching tonight myself.

[ErikW]

It all sounds good except for the burlap and the slots.

Though a challenge, the slats tend to get shot up and you put the ROs in the position of having to watch them carefully and turn scoring hits into misses. If you use slots/slats, maybe force the shooter close into them to lessen the chances of lumberjacking.

Erik's #1 rule of stage design: Just let them shoot.

[shred]

I agree with Erik-- In my experience, new stage designers want to empty out the prop shed and throw in everything, including the kitchen sink, so go a bit easy on fancy stuff.  It'll make the match run smoother too.

Throw in a hoser stage or two-- they're 'fun' to lots of people.   Otherwise, shoot for balanced stages, stages with lots of different ways to shoot them, and not much memory-testing (that's not-fun to lots of people).   Try to allow for both D and M shooters, production through open.

Count on shooters to find new and interesting ways to shoot your stage that you didn't see.  Try really hard not to get annoyed if they somehow figure out how to shoot your stage totally unlike how you wanted them to.

(Edited by shred at 6:44 pm on Sep. 10, 2002)

[JFD]

Thanks.  I had a feeling the burlap was stupid.  

I don't agree about the slots though, but I think I didn't describe them well enough.  The slots are basically just a 1 foot gap or so left between vision barriers/walls.  Around And Through (Stage 7 2001 Limited Nationals) is a good example of the kind of slot I'm talking about.  I just got through making heavy modifications to this stage for next month's match.  I'll try to get a link to it so you guys can check it out.

I have seen slats and bars used to cover ports.  It seems simpler to just use our small ports instead if I wanted to go that route.

This morning I just completed my first stage for Sunday's match.  Nothing overly special, but I did manage to put a very minor twist into what has become the standard run&gun stage usually held in that bay.  Next month it gets to be a totally different stage design.

So far the stages I've settled on for next month's match are pretty straight forward.  Only 5 steel plates in the entire match.  I'm using a slightly modified Speedvision for our small bay, Reflect On This, Amnesia, the heavily modified Around And Through, and I've settled on American Standard (CM 99-4) for our classifier since it looks like I can manage to set it up without too much difficulty.

A little 3 gun action is what I really want to do.

[JFD]

In theory this link should take you to the stage I was talking about.  Keep in mind that it's not to scale.  for example, the plates will likely be 15 - 20 yards from the shooter and the stage will not be nearly as crowded as it appears.

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/ggcuspsa/s...And_Through.JPG

I can't this to work as a link.  Don't know why, but the address is good.

(Edited by JFD at 10:47 pm on Sep. 10, 2002)

[Flexmoney]

JFD,

You might need to change the name.  Around and Through has the shooter go around a wall...and through a doorway.  The diagram from last year's Nationals shows T3 & T4 as being visible thru the doorway (what seems to be what you have as a slot).  In reality, T3 &T4 are hidden behing the inward slanting walls in the back.  You have to go around the wall, through the first "doorway", then to the back opening...where there is a fault line.

Here is the version we are shooting at THE Ohio Section match.  Our diagram has the fault line in the wrong place...it should be back (through).

http://www.geocities.com/ohiouspsa/

, then click on stage 3.

----------------

Your stage looks good though.  You do likely have a 180 problem.  The way your diagram looks, the shooter can go downrange on the sides and then have to come backward for the middle shooting position.

A simple fix.  Just run two walls, straight across.  Seperate them by however big you want your slot to be.  This saves the amount of props (walls) and setup you will need too.

(Edited by Flexmoney at 12:35 pm on Sep. 11, 2002)

[JFD]

I see what you're saying with that 180 situation.  Easy to fix.

I'll still use slated vision barriers to block the steel and 2 paper targets in the center.  I can likely also get rid of the 2 no shoots that are "guarding" T4 & T5 in my first attempt.  I had intended to force the shooter to keep moving outward in order to engage the sides targets, the diagram got too crowded to show it.  I think I'll drop down on the scale in my rewrite and show it more accurately.  I could always allow the shooter to enter the door/slot and just make a "room" out of the front walls and angled vision barriers, closing it off with barrels or something to keep them from getting closer to the steel.

I'll try again and post it later.  Your link was a dead one.

Thanks for the help.  

[Flexmoney]

I posted a different way to get to that link.  Maybe it will work.  

[JFD]

I'll try the link again.

I've since modified that stage quite a bit.  Check here:

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/ggcuspsa/stage/SI_pic.JPG

4 of the no shoots are simply blocking access to T2, T3, T7, & T8 from the middle position.  The actual "room" may change, probably going to a 2 barrel opening.  we already have a door in this bay, so using it is easier than having to drag the heavy bastard out of the way.  The side and back walls may also drop to single angled walls, but this is something I'll find out when setting up the stage.  The basic target positions will still stay the same.  

This stage change also increases the movement a little, being about par for course for stages usually set up in this bay.

I'll still modify the Around And Through stage (renaming it as well) since I want to use the slot idea.  It will likely be targeted for a different bay now.

I finally found a use for Powerpoint...