Damn_Bastard Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Well, the Browning high power is carreid cocked and locked, and has no grip safety. The Smith and Wesson M&P is a more or less shameless rip off of the XD, and has no grip safety. The striker is fully cocked in both pistols, one has a grip safety, the other does not. Ergonomically, the grip safety is just... a silly idea. I will also point out that JMB didn't feel it was necessary, but had it forced on him. It's a button you have to push with the hollow of your hand. If you have a nice, high grip, and are not a very thick person, you can completly fail to activate it. I do. Therefore, I'll never be one for the 1911s. To call it a "flame" when someone presents a reasonable criticism of an inanimate object (for pete's sake!) is awfully oversensitive. Just because one person likes it doesn't mean another has to. Just because it works for one person doesn't mean it will work for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Mr. Bastard NONE of this stuff would be here if it weren't for the 1911...so bitch all you want about the grip safety, but don't disparage the pistol that gave us the sport as we know it now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird_Dog0347 Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Mr. BastardNONE of this stuff would be here if it weren't for the 1911...so bitch all you want about the grip safety, but don't disparage the pistol that gave us the sport as we know it now.. Amen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 OK folks...this thread is about the XD and one shooters problems with his grip and the gun. Let's leave the 1911 and JMB out of it. That arguement could go on for days and nobody would change their minds. I don't see how building up the safety with grip tape is illegal for production, if it were then it would also be illegal to use grip tape for production period, but it is not permanent so it is leagal as far a I can tell. I know people with glocks tha build up their grip with griptape to resemble a 1911 grip angle, and they get away with taht at all the clubs up here in WA.once again not permanent. Just my $.02 . I don't think it is illegal. However, if you deactivate your grip safety with grip tape (e.g. by pinning it down), then that's illegal. A study of the Production rules does not specifically prohibit deactivation of the grip safety and the primary safety in an XD is in front of the trigger. Here are the applicable rules for USPSA Production. (I don't know if our shooter is using his XD in Production of Limited-10??) 21.5 External modifications other than sights not allowed. 21.6 Aftermarket grips which match the profile of the OFM standard for the approved handgun and/or the application of grip tape or rubber sleeves is permitted. Modifications to grips, other than previously mentioned, not allowed, such as grooves cut to reach mag release or size reduction. The rules don't differentiate permanent external modifications from those that aren't. they just say "no external mods". Further, 21.6 goes on to say that you can use stuff to help the grip texture, but you can't change the profile of the grips. The answer for fixing this issue for a shooter that is having trouble with the XD is going to be found inside the gun if they want to shoot in USPSA Production division with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Flex is right, the grip safety can be disable internally, you could grind off the top end of the grip safety and that would disable the safety without externally modifying the gun. The grip safety simply blocks the sear from being able to move down to release the striker when the trigger is pulled. If you grid that shoulder off the grip safety then the sear can move with or without the safety depressed. It should not effect any of the other mechanism only disable the grip safety. I would not do it myself on my XD-40, nor would I recommend someone else doing it but it should work, the grip safety is a pretty simple setup. rambling mcb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R/T Performance Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Mr. BastardNONE of this stuff would be here if it weren't for the 1911...so bitch all you want about the grip safety, but don't disparage the pistol that gave us the sport as we know it now.. Imagine how long a match would be if all we had was wheel guns . That would be my worst nightmare 10 stage 5 day format Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damn_Bastard Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Mr. BastardNONE of this stuff would be here if it weren't for the 1911...so bitch all you want about the grip safety, but don't disparage the pistol that gave us the sport as we know it now.. Wellll.... come on, just because it was first, doesn't mean it has no flaws. I agree that the 1911 pioneered what is probably the perfet broad design characteristics (reciprocating slide, tilting barrel, magazine in the grip, etc.) Just because a genius did an incredible job doesn't mean some other genius didn't improve upon it. And that 2nd genius' improvements does not in any way disparage the achievements of the first genius. The 1911 is great, but it ain't perfect. Nothing is perfect. Especially not Glock, my personal choice in firearm. In 9mm, no less. Hate me now? Oops, sorry. Flex, I didn't read your post until I wrote my reply, above. Grip safety on an XD: Most guns that don't fit you, you can't shoot well. If a gun with a grip safety doesn't fit you, it doesn't shoot *at all*. Flog it, and buy a Glock or M&P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy70 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Well, the Browning high power is carreid cocked and locked, and has no grip safety.The Smith and Wesson M&P is a more or less shameless rip off of the XD, and has no grip safety. The striker is fully cocked in both pistols, one has a grip safety, the other does not. Ergonomically, the grip safety is just... a silly idea. I will also point out that JMB didn't feel it was necessary, but had it forced on him. It's a button you have to push with the hollow of your hand. If you have a nice, high grip, and are not a very thick person, you can completly fail to activate it. I do. Therefore, I'll never be one for the 1911s. To call it a "flame" when someone presents a reasonable criticism of an inanimate object (for pete's sake!) is awfully oversensitive. Just because one person likes it doesn't mean another has to. Just because it works for one person doesn't mean it will work for another. The striker IS NOT fully cocked on the XD It's very close, but it isn't. If you own an xd you can try this out yourself. (disclaimer) Unload and get all ammo out of the room, then rack/cock the XD, hold it where you can watch the firing pin indicator VERY closely, it moves back about a couple thousanths before actually striking. This is what allows it to be production legal as per USPSA rules on the Production class states that there can only be Double action guns in Production. ::::US APPENDIX D9:::: US Production Division Special conditions: 17. Only handguns approved and listed on the USPSA website may be used in Production Division. 18. Single-action-only handguns are prohibited. 19. Handgun may not be in single action mode at start signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The striker IS NOT fully cocked on the XD It's very close, but it isn't. If you own an xd you can try this out yourself. (disclaimer) Unload and get all ammo out of the room, then rack/cock the XD, hold it where you can watch the firing pin indicator VERY closely, it moves back about a couple thousanths before actually striking. This is what allows it to be production legal as per USPSA rules on the Production class states that there can only be Double action guns in Production. Got to call horse hooey on that one. The striker is fully cocked in and XD. that slight rearward motion is due to the sear moving in a circular arc on its pivot pin. The system is nothing like the glock partial cocked system. There is no linear movement of the sear rearward. The motion is only due to the rotation of the sear and depending on how well the sear and striker mate can result in almost not movement at all. Both of my XD-40s move less than 0.010 inch when the trigger is pulled. I would hardly call 0.010 movement not fully cocked. Rambling mcb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R/T Performance Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The striker IS NOT fully cocked on the XD It's very close, but it isn't. If you own an xd you can try this out yourself. (disclaimer) Unload and get all ammo out of the room, then rack/cock the XD, hold it where you can watch the firing pin indicator VERY closely, it moves back about a couple thousanths before actually striking. This is what allows it to be production legal as per USPSA rules on the Production class states that there can only be Double action guns in Production. Got to call horse hooey on that one. The striker is fully cocked in and XD. that slight rearward motion is due to the sear moving in a circular arc on its pivot pin. The system is nothing like the glock partial cocked system. There is no linear movement of the sear rearward. The motion is only due to the rotation of the sear and depending on how well the sear and striker mate can result in almost not movement at all. Both of my XD-40s move less than 0.010 inch when the trigger is pulled. I would hardly call 0.010 movement not fully cocked. Rambling mcb SHSSSS Somebody importanted could be reading this LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy70 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Thats what I thought at first, was completely against the fact that my xd could be DA even if its a weird version of DA, aksed 3 different pistolsmiths about it, a couple of RO's and even called someone at uspsa headquarters, and springfield armory, all confirmed this... otherwise you couldn't use it in Production division in uspsa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damn_Bastard Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) Thats what I thought at first, was completely against the fact that my xd could be DA even if its a weird version of DA, aksed 3 different pistolsmiths about it, a couple of RO's and even called someone at uspsa headquarters, and springfield armory, all confirmed this... otherwise you couldn't use it in Production division in uspsa... So, is this a falsehood, or is it a freak occurance of your happening to ask the 3 dumbest pistolsmiths, the 2 dumbest ROs, a mental patient visiting the USPSA headquarters, and a burglar at the Springfield Armory? I think I know which side of the fence I'm coming down on. A word of advice, kid: If you find yourself in a hole, quit digging. Edited November 7, 2006 by Damn_Bastard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 If you aren't posting about the question that started this thread (grip issues) then you aren't helping out...so, stop. We have a zillion threads that talk about the SA/DA'ness of the XD...please add your constructive discussions to one of those threads. And, we don't need (nor allow) any silly...endless... debates of the "1911 vs. whatever" type. This forum is about helping each other out, not winning arguments. So, get on topic, help out, or move along to a topic that you can be constructive in (giving or taking advise). Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 to depress the grip safety, try this and see if it works for you... support hand providing >60% gripping strength, firm squeeze but not tense support-hand thumb pointing firmly forward, parallel with bottom of slide camming action trigger hand providing remaining gripping strength, hand relaxed BUT... FIRMLY BUTT (PRESS) THE STRONG-HAND "THUMB DRUMSTICK" AND WEAK-HAND "THUMB DRUMSTICK" TOGETHER. The "butting drumsticks" thing is the key. This has worked for several folks I know who had problems activating the grip safety. It may not work for everyone, but it's worth a try. Please expiriment with it and post your results. Best of luck to you! Kindest Regards, bk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Like this. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1947649455098371390 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3801467503697132933 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4401358249286383489 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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