standles Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Well I shot an IDPA match today. One stage had some tgts setup inline where basically you had to jog left and shoot two rounds, Jog right shoot two more rounds, then jog left and shoot the final two rounds. NS were interspersed to force ya to dance. One gentleman found a way to shoot it via standing in one spot and taking all head shots. The MD did not like that because he wanted the honkey shuffle to take place. So.... He cuts the heads of each tgt and forces the guy to reshoot. This in spite of the fact that no headshots was not covered in the walkthrough. Does cutting the head off make it an illegal ttg? Argument was to no avail. They also had a steel at 47yds to be engaged behind cover. No big deal but since he was being a stickler I did point out that they had 2 steel in a stage with thre tgts. No more than 25% of the shots required on any string of fire may be on steel targets I also pointed out that IDPA allowed for occasional tgts out to 35 yds. The defacto 35 yds being the occasional limit should have precluded the 47 yd tgt. I can use a rule book as well as the next guy. Again I am MD and my word is LAW! Oh well I think I will mount the rulebook on a lanyard and hang it around my neck next match for easier reference I did invite the gentelment out to my USPSA match and invited him to game all he like as it kept me on my toes. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Pass this on to IDPA HQ and see if this is how they want their organization run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) I have been setting up stages for about a year now and shooting IDPA for about two years. At first I scripted everything in a stage. If i wanted a shooter move from P1 to P2 and then back to P1 to take shots on a target, I spelled it out in the course description. I said when to reload and when to move and what to shoot and wherre you should be standing when shooting. I still insist onthe sequence of shooting targets, 1,1,2,11 or double tap. Recently I have because more ambiguous. I set a start point and perhaps P2 to move to. I leave the reloads to the shooters as well as where the statagy in using cover, what angles to take and what side of the cover to use to engage targets. As long as safety is abserved, I like it when a shooter figures out a better way to shoot the target. it is a game afterall. As for the 47 yd targets, it is legal, as a skills test, but a bit far to my way of thinking. As to modifying the CoF by cutting heads off targets, CoF 21 says that all the shooters that shot before the modification of the stage get a re-shoot. I could find no where in the rule book that outlaws modifying the target by cutting the head off, as long as it was not a classifer. Targets are modified by painting hard cover on to them. You ran into a range nazi. Don't give up on IDPA there are a lot of great shooters and officals out there. John Edited August 21, 2006 by John K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) No offense to anyone who's nice that's shoots IDPA, but, that's excactly why I (we) tried IDPA, and then dumped it. My number was A1812. I got in early on thinking this would be a cool new shooting sport. I believed in the concept, I (we) really did. All my friends felt the same way. I (we) just couldn't get over the bad attitudes of the people my group encountered everywhere we went. This was back in 97 and 98. The range nazis, meanies or, whatever you want to call them really disliked us because we were USPSA shooters, and...because we always came out ahead of them. Our equipment was always legal, we always played the game within the rules and always came out on top. They hated us for it. I'm sorry, but I don't know of another word to use. My home club in Mississippi host one of the biggest USPSA state champonships in the southeast. Shooters come from all over the country to shoot our match. They compare it to Area matches; ask anyone. We had an IDPA club and let it die after a few trips on the road. We have a huge facility with over 750 active members in the club at large. No IDPA though; not anymore. We do have an ICORE club though.... What a shame. Again, no offense to any nice people who shoot IDPA now. I've met some cool people on these boards. This is simply the truth. Bad people in USPSA? You betcha. Any sport has that. But, that type of hostility just isn't tolerated though. Until all of us...USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, Cowboy Action....whatever learn to get along, join the NRA and act as a united front, one day, when they take all our guns away, we'll wish we had been nicer to each other. Peace. Edited August 21, 2006 by BlackSabbath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwings2001 Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Gee Cliff, Tell us how you really feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) Gee Cliff,Tell us how you really feel? I'll try not to hold back next time...I need open up and share more... Oh, and the ICORE match was a helluva lot fun yesterday! Edited August 22, 2006 by BlackSabbath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) We have a Tactical Turtle as I like to call him that has to be in charge and make all these goofy rules for doing goofy things I don't think I would ever do in the real world ( that is what IDPA is supposed to sim right?), but we go along with him cause it makes us think on our feet better. I do not like the reshoot based on the fact that someone found a way to outsmart the MD. That should be an instant stage win for that guy. I magine if he went first and was able to show everyone the way to hit them all, it might have gone a different way. I think being able to out think a stage is the best thing a competitor can do. If you can think faster than the crazy goofy prop/NS filled stage you are shooting then good on you! I say he followed the rules, and the MD should have specified or blacked out the head shots. Edited August 22, 2006 by theknightoflight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I believe that most IDPA clubs do not and will not tolerate an SO who exhibits "range nazi" type of behavior. I admit my experience is with only a small number of clubs but I have only had one experience with an a$$hat SO in all the matches I have ever shot. I have met an equal number in USPSA matches - I think. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 You ran into a range nazi. Don't give up on IDPA there are a lot of great shooters and officals out there. John +1 I really enjoy IDPA and have just grown accustomed to it's quirks (I've been assimilated) One of IDPA's main flaws is that it really doesn't allow for freestyle shooting, a good IDPA stage is scripted and is supposed to simulate an actual scenario. Reloads are to be done here, T1-T3 are to be shoot while moving etc... IMHO it's in poor taste for a MD to say you did it all wrong and then modify the stage and tell you to shoot it again. Personally, if I set a stage and a way was found to game the stage (at a local match) I would explain the intent, offer the shooter a choice of a re-shoot or let his score stand. In the end, it's all about having fun. Sometimes it's possible to be TOO right in IDPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Well I shot an IDPA match today.One stage had some tgts setup inline where basically you had to jog left and shoot two rounds, Jog right shoot two more rounds, then jog left and shoot the final two rounds. NS were interspersed to force ya to dance. One gentleman found a way to shoot it via standing in one spot and taking all head shots. The MD did not like that because he wanted the honkey shuffle to take place. So.... He cuts the heads of each tgt and forces the guy to reshoot. This in spite of the fact that no headshots was not covered in the walkthrough. Does cutting the head off make it an illegal ttg? Argument was to no avail. They also had a steel at 47yds to be engaged behind cover. No big deal but since he was being a stickler I did point out that they had 2 steel in a stage with thre tgts. No more than 25% of the shots required on any string of fire may be on steel targets I also pointed out that IDPA allowed for occasional tgts out to 35 yds. The defacto 35 yds being the occasional limit should have precluded the 47 yd tgt. I can use a rule book as well as the next guy. Again I am MD and my word is LAW! Oh well I think I will mount the rulebook on a lanyard and hang it around my neck next match for easier reference I did invite the gentelment out to my USPSA match and invited him to game all he like as it kept me on my toes. Steven I HATE people that make up their own rules. That is what the damn book is for whether they like it or not. If he wants to make shooters miserable, have him start his own organization. I DO prefer USPSA, but there are places for everyone in both sports. As for carrying the rule book, I put mine in my PALM Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 If the S.O. went through and cut all the heads off of all the bad guys then I'ld just tell him that I want max time and points because I don't need to kill them since they have already been decapitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyreb Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 This was back in 97 and 98. The range nazis, meanies or, whatever you want to call them really disliked us because we were USPSA shooters, and...because we always came out ahead of them. Our equipment was always legal, we always played the game within the rules and always came out on top.They hated us for it. I'm sorry, but I don't know of another word to use. Same thing happened to me in Ohio. The only gun game within an hour was the local IDPA club. Darn they disliked me. I showed up early to help set up, stayed late to tear down, became an IDPA SO...really tried to fit in and make myself useful. No use. USPSA guys need not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I am glad my club is small. We play both games and it is a lot of fun. We get to watch how people get confused shooting USPSA stages with IDPA techniques and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) If the S.O. went through and cut all the heads off of all the bad guys then I'ld just tell him that I want max time and points because I don't need to kill them since they have already been decapitated. I like that one.. I may use it if the situation comes up again. This was nto the SO it was the Pres of the local club. He has been an absentee landlord of late and came back for this match. We basically juts have a different view. He viewes it as training and tactical scenarios. I view it as a game and enjoy shooting it. When I started up the trial IPSC club he asked me did I think that it qualified as Offensive tactics versus the defensive tactics of IDPA. I told him I viewed it as a game played with firearms and all bets are off if return fire is headed your way. Problem is he was an IPSC shooter in the old defunct club. Even more interesting is I was told he doesn't shoot major matches anymore because he disagreed with an interpretation of the rules once and was overruled. Since then he just runs the local club with a cadre of lemmings. I went through everything (his class) to get SO cert for IDPA. Funny I never got my name sent in LOL! Oh well live and let live.... Edited August 25, 2006 by standles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 This was back in 97 and 98. The range nazis, meanies or, whatever you want to call them really disliked us because we were USPSA shooters, and...because we always came out ahead of them. Our equipment was always legal, we always played the game within the rules and always came out on top. They hated us for it. I'm sorry, but I don't know of another word to use. Same thing happened to me in Ohio. The only gun game within an hour was the local IDPA club. Darn they disliked me. I showed up early to help set up, stayed late to tear down, became an IDPA SO...really tried to fit in and make myself useful. No use. USPSA guys need not apply. Dude....AMEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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