n2ipsc Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Have acquired a circa-70's Python, in gorgeous condition excepting a clean, but VERY heavy DA trigger. Know there used to be a handful of reknowned Python tuners out there - wondering if anyone has a line on a "specialist" who'd be able to rework this below its hernia-inducing pull... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Bronwells to the rescue, buy Kunheusanger [spelling] manual and a reduced spring kit. Mine is about a 6.5 da pull and pops all the primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Bronwells to the rescue, buy Kunheusanger [spelling] manual and a reduced spring kit. Mine is about a 6.5 da pull and pops all the primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Reeves Jungkind from Texas was always considered the master of the Python action. He's retired law enforcement. He knows how to take out the staginess that S&W shooters dislike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I have a '65 production Official Police, which has the same internals as a Python. When I asked around here for a source for replacement springs for it that I could install myself, I was pretty thoroughly thrashed about the head and shoulders. I ordered some stuff from TK Custom, and while on the phone asked him whether he still worked on Colts, since it's listed on his resume that he was a Colt armorer at one time. I guess it was for bottomfeeders. He did recommend Alex Hamilton at 10 Ring Precision in San Antonio, TX. I've dealt with Alex before and can recommend him in terms of satisfaction, but I haven't seen any of his work on Colts. Bill Laughridge at Cylinder & Slide also lists Colts as among the guns his shop works on. I've read that he has a long lead time, though. I've never seen any of his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Probably the very best on those Colts is Bill at Cylinder and Slide.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 The late Austin Behlert was well known for the trigger work he did on Colt DA's. His legacy was passed on to guys like George Smith at EGW and Bruce Gray who worked for him. Also Don Williamsof the Action Works supposedly does very nice work with Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Probably the very best on those Colts is Bill at Cylinder and Slide.......... I've heard that Bill makes them lighter, but leaves in the "stacky" feel. Hell, the guns are already glassy smooth, might as well just throw in a spring kit and call it good, if that's what you want. The key is to get the gun to somebody who understands how to adjust the geometry of the springs in a way to get rid of the stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepper Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I had Frank Glenn @ Glenn Custom work one over for me. Now it feels exactly like a S&W!!! http://www.glenncustom.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 What will you do with it once you get it slicked up? This is the dilemma I grapple with. I have a pristine 82-83 6" Python my Father gave me, but I don't dare shoot it much because they are very hard to work on (as I understand it) and it may well be that in 3-5 more years all the old Colt Smiths will be gone. It's worth too much to flog like my S&W's, (not that it would hold up to a season of IPSC in the first place) so it's a safe queen gathering dust. Seems like a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2ipsc Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 What will you do with it once you get it slicked up? This is the dilemma I grapple with. I have a pristine 82-83 6" Python my Father gave me, but I don't dare shoot it much because they are very hard to work on (as I understand it) and it may well be that in 3-5 more years all the old Colt Smiths will be gone. It's worth too much to flog like my S&W's, (not that it would hold up to a season of IPSC in the first place) so it's a safe queen gathering dust. Seems like a waste. Not sure, but the spousal unit's all pouty that I won't actually fire my gift... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 What will you do with it once you get it slicked up? This is the dilemma I grapple with. I have a pristine 82-83 6" Python my Father gave me, but I don't dare shoot it much because they are very hard to work on (as I understand it) and it may well be that in 3-5 more years all the old Colt Smiths will be gone. It's worth too much to flog like my S&W's, (not that it would hold up to a season of IPSC in the first place) so it's a safe queen gathering dust. Seems like a waste. Not sure, but the spousal unit's all pouty that I won't actually fire my gift... At ALL?? Even with my OCD acting up I'll burn a box every couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 I have a Python's with action work from the factory and one done by Reeves Jungkind they both still stack but you really have to want to find it on Reves gun!! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 What will you do with it once you get it slicked up?You mean they don't have BBQs in OK? A floral carved Tom Threepersons-style holster and matching belt w/12 loops would be just the ticket. Shooting a club match with it, especially if you have a match in connection with a holiday celebration and then a club meal afterwards, would be the perfect opportunity. I don't know enough about the relevant issues with Colts, but I can't imagine that the gun that rode in so many police holsters in different guises (Official Police, .357 Magnum, Trooper, Python) for so long is too fragile to last through a USPSA match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 What will you do with it once you get it slicked up?You mean they don't have BBQs in OK? A floral carved Tom Threepersons-style holster and matching belt w/12 loops would be just the ticket. Shooting a club match with it, especially if you have a match in connection with a holiday celebration and then a club meal afterwards, would be the perfect opportunity. I don't know enough about the relevant issues with Colts, but I can't imagine that the gun that rode in so many police holsters in different guises (Official Police, .357 Magnum, Trooper, Python) for so long is too fragile to last through a USPSA match. Well yeah, we have BBQ's, but we shoot after we eat. You said you wouldn't actually fire your gift. As far as LEO duty goes, I haven't known that many officers (only about a dozen through the years) Except for the few LEO's active in our sport, I'll shoot more ammo in a busy month than the typical officer will fire in a career. Annual qualification (if the department has any) may only be 24 rounds of slow fire. That's why police department revos were such a bargain. You basically got an unused (although dirty) gun with the finish beat up and wore off the right side from getting in and out of a car. Slip over to the Colt forum, disguise your voice, and talk about doing 2 second Bill Drills with major PF loads in your Colt and see what the grizzled old experts have to say. If they don't lynch you outright, you'll get an ear full about what happens to the gun and what should happen to the bad people that would do that. It's not that my S&W's don't suffer from the abuse as well, it's just that they're still made, parts are available, and if a gunsmith says he'll work on a revolver at all, it'll be a S&W. Very few gunsmiths work on Colts, I'm sure they can tell you better than I what the reasons are. That's why my example doesn't get very much use, although it's probably worth more (used) than the retail asking price of a new S&W of the same general type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rover Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) New here but have found a lot of good information so far. To answer the question on Python 'smiths ones I can think of are the following: Cylinder & Slide - www.cylinder-slide.com Dave Berryhill - http://www.berryhillguns.com/ Geo. Wessinger - http://www.americanpistol.com/members/wessinger.html Walt Sherman - no website 5846 Tea Rose Trail Tallahassee, FL 32311 904-878-9563 I do not know if all the stacking is removed by C&S. There was a writeup in Combat Handguns a while back on a Supertuned PYthon they did with 7.25 lb DA pull. Sherman is noted for his roller actions on Pythons and S&W and he RETAINS the single action unlike the C&S roller action for S&W. The one I saw had about 6.5 pound DA, 2.5 lb SA and fired magnum primers. There was a writeup on him in the early '90s in American Handgunner in the issue that M. Ayoob had an article on all his Pythons. Sorry, don't have the date. Berryhill states he uses Austrin Behlert's method of removing stacking and the DA came out around 6 pounds. Austin produced some in the 5 lb range. Single came out light and in the 2 lb range. There are a number of different methods of removing the stacking. The old method involves bending the rear of the trigger shelf. This does not allow a light single action pull but pull can be set near 4 lbs. I believe Jungkind used this method. As far as I know he is retired. Might want to check and see for certain. Behlert's method involved cutting a groove in the trigger shelf and modifying the DA sear (Colt=hammer strut) to ride in the groove. His did not require retiming the revolver. Whatever Sherman does there is not much if any stacking in the gun. There are a couple of other methods that I don't think any use currently. Due to the long hammer arc of the Python it should work with a relatively light pull compared to other models with the same work done. As to spring kits Bullseye makes one with a new mainspring and cylinder bolt spring. I think Natchez Shooters Supply sells them. Also, there is the traditional method of bending the Colt mainspring. Edited May 27, 2006 by Rover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) Rover, thanks for the excellent information. (Not bad for his first post, huh guys??) Edited May 27, 2006 by Carmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rover Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 (edited) A little more on Pythons. From what I can gather some of the 'smiths also either lightened the firing pin spring or put in a custom extended firing pin to work with the lessened mainspring tension. Here is some info from over at the Colt Forum on rapid double actioning of Colts: at: http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showflat.p...age=0#Post27105 http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t...ght=colt+timing http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t...t+double+action Dfariswheel I believe posts at Pistolsmith, Colt and S&W Forums and is a retired gunsmith. Unlike a S&W or Ruger the older style Colt revolvers have a 2 stage hand to rotate the cylinder via the ratchet and the 2nd stage holds tight against the ratchet to lock the cylinder in alignment against the bolt versus being locked to the side of the ratchet.. The hand seems to have a life of 2000-4000 cycles. It can be lengthened once by peening. Here is a post from a blog by a gunsmith who works on Colts about "fragile" Colts and whether Colt has permanently ceased revolver manufacture: http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog/files/category-6.html At sixgunner.com Michael Blane appears to concur with Cunningham regarding the tooling being destroyed. See: http://forums.sixgunner.com/Double-Actions/forumid_77/tt.htm In the article in American Handgunner on Walt Sherman I recall he mentioned that some of his Pythons came out around 4.5 pounds DA used with Federal primers that had tight headspace, min. endshake and such but most were a bit heavier. I believe Sherman was the armorer for the Florida Hwy. Patrol when they carried Pythons. I recall Berryhill said the 6 pound DA fired a small rifle primer so I would think 6 lb range is doable. Depends what you will use the Python for. Behlert actually built one gun for Colt Marketing (see http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t...ighlight=python ). As to hands Numrich has them in stock at: http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?chrP...SKU=197370A&MC= for $30. I would buy a couple just in case. One other thing. John Taffin mentioned once the firing pins were fragile so never dry fire without a snap cap. Might want to acquire one of those, also. Edited May 28, 2006 by Rover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2ipsc Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 A little more on Pythons. From what I can gather some of the 'smiths also either lightened the firing pin spring or put in a custom extended firing pin to work with the lessened mainspring tension. Here is some info from over at the Colt Forum on rapid double actioning of Colts:at: http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showflat.p...age=0#Post27105 http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t...ght=colt+timing http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t...t+double+action Dfariswheel I believe posts at Pistolsmith, Colt and S&W Forums and is a retired gunsmith. Unlike a S&W or Ruger the older style Colt revolvers have a 2 stage hand to rotate the cylinder via the ratchet and the 2nd stage holds tight against the ratchet to lock the cylinder in alignment against the bolt versus being locked to the side of the ratchet.. The hand seems to have a life of 2000-4000 cycles. It can be lengthened once by peening. Here is a post from a blog by a gunsmith who works on Colts about "fragile" Colts and whether Colt has permanently ceased revolver manufacture: http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog/files/category-6.html At sixgunner.com Michael Blane appears to concur with Cunningham regarding the tooling being destroyed. See: http://forums.sixgunner.com/Double-Actions/forumid_77/tt.htm Fantastic, Rover - many thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rover Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 A little update. It appears Dave Berryhill has changed his focus primarily to 1911 'smithing as of May. Perhaps he could still be coaxed into an action job, though. If not perhaps he would know to whom else Austin Behlert taught his Python tuning method or failing that another well qualified 'smith. The date of the American Handgunner article was Sept/Oct 1992. This also had the Massad Ayoob article therein "Colt Python". Perhaps back copies are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I remember that article. In addition to some of the names mentioned, Ayoob references a Jerry Moran, apparently a gunsmith who did a great Python action. By the time the article was published, Moran had already dropped out of sight. I've never heard of him re-surfacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rover Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I remember that article. In addition to some of the names mentioned, Ayoob references a Jerry Moran, apparently a gunsmith who did a great Python action. By the time the article was published, Moran had already dropped out of sight. I've never heard of him re-surfacing. I believe he was up in Michigan. Ayoob stated he only did action jobs for himself and maybe a few close friends as I recall. Don't know why he got out of tuning unless it was too hectic. If I recall correctly a couple of pages after Ayoob's article was the one on Walt Sherman. I think Ayoob's article ran 4-5 pages in total so may be interesting if one could obtain a copy of the article. Anyhow, Moran was another of the big names in Python tuning. Not many left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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