M22-4 Back From S&w

[revchuck]

Okay, folks, I sent my M22-4 (Thunder Ranch Special in .45 ACP) back to the factory to have the POI/POA issue fixed - like most I've heard about, it shot way low (almost a foot at 25 yards) with 230 grain ammo. I also had them do the Master Revolver Action Job on it while it was there.

The POI/POA issue is fixed. I had asked them to install a ramp or Patridge front sight, but they don't have any in the proper dimensions - the ramp on both the .44 Special and .45 ACP Thunder Ranch guns is longer than on others, so the sights from other guns hang off in the rear and don't reach the front. I have a half-nickle front sight, but at least it's the right height.

I'm frankly disappointed in the action job. The same smith (Vito) did this gun and my 681-2 about a year ago, and the action on the L frame is just so much better. I noticed that he used a Wolff mainspring on the L frame, but stuck with the factory one on the .45 ACP. The 681 is slick, about 8 lbs. DA, and 100% with CCI primers. The 22-4 is smooth but considerably heavier, and I've only tried it with Federal ammo, plus a couple of moon clips of Remington-UMC hardball, and my handloads using Fed 150s. It ran 100% too.

Is the difference between a hammer-mounted and frame-mounted firiing pin, plus the fact that it's a moonclip gun, that much? Could I expect to get a slightly better DA using the standard power Wolff mainspring without compromising reliability? Did Vito just have a bad day? Is this just another stage of lumpy gravy? Enquiring minds want to know!

[Carmoney]

I haven't been shy about saying this in the past, so I'll lay it out again here: There are several guys who around the country who know how to consistently create an excellent competition action job on a S&W revolver.....and none of them work in Springfield, Massachusetts.

Chuck, if anything, the frame-mounted firing pin will help allow the action to be lighter and still 100% reliable. If you're using Federal primers only, you can probably lighten up the mainspring tension quite a good bit more. Try the Wolff, or try bending the stock spring.

I suppose you can call S&W and ask them to send you a UPS label and to re-do the action, but they'll probably just BS you. If you have any mechanical aptitude, I'd recommend you use this opportunity to start learning how to do your own revolver actions.

Good luck,

Mike

[AzShooter]

Send it to Randy Lee at Apextactical.com. He can give you a 4-4.5 lb trigger that you just won't believe.

[hopalong]

I'm not the most informed person in the world by far, but let's put a little common sense into the mix.

the Model 22 is considered a "carry/defence" gun........I think......No rear sights ect. (Edit to add:) NOT a COMPETITION gun

Since it is considered a "carry" gun Smith & Wesson will put in the action job (smoothing things out ect.) BUT they will turn right around and put full power springs back in it........called LIABILITY reasons........Carmoney should know this.

When you get the master job on a "standard" revolver it will come back with the lower power "Wolf" mainspring and will "FEAL" smoother....just because it is lighter.

I have a suspision that if you reduced the mainspring pressure until it is the same as your other revos you would then notice the "SMOOTHER" action.

Smith and Wesson will NEVER give you an action job rivaling some of them seen on the revos in competition.....Their LAWYERS won't let them.

Understand this, deal with it as you need to/can.

NOW I am not defending S&W and they did not pay me to do so as I think the guns we are getting now days are JUNK compared to the good ole days guns (wish I had more) but this is the time of mass production, fast assembly and hold costs low....and you see what we get......guns that do the job but are more like RUGERS than SMITH&WESSONS.

That is a complement to Ruger btw, as Bill Ruger understood what us poor folks wanted and could aford...you got what you wanted from them.....a gun that worked, was as tough as a pine knot and was afordable....but not precisely and elegantly done.

Just my thoughts.....but I'm just a lucky chump from Ramer

HOP

Edited January 28, 2006 by hopalong

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I'm not the most informed person in the world by far, but let's put a little common sense into the mix.

the Model 22 is considered a "carry/defence" gun........I think......No rear sights ect. (Edit to add:) NOT a COMPETITION gun

Since it is considered a "carry" gun Smith & Wesson will put in the action job (smoothing things out ect.) BUT they will turn right around and put full power springs back in it........called LIABILITY reasons........Carmoney should know this.

When you get the master job on a "standard" revolver it will come back with the lower power "Wolf" mainspring and will "FEAL" smoother....just because it is lighter.

I have a suspision that if you reduced the mainspring pressure until it is the same as your other revos you would then notice the "SMOOTHER" action.

Smith and Wesson will NEVER give you an action job rivaling some of them seen on the revos in competition.....Their LAWYERS won't let them.

Understand this, deal with it as you need to/can.

HOP

+1 to the above with an addition. I have met Vito and had him work on a couple of my revolvers. Great guy, excellent mechanic/machinist/Gunsmith as is Jimmy Rae in spite of what CARMONEY may say.

If he receives a gun with the statement "Competition Only" he will do a competition action job. If he receives a self defense firearm, it will be within all the factory specs as required.

If you are not happy with what they have done, send it back with a note as to what you expected. Better yet, call Vito and ask him. He will tell you what he can and can not do. After all, you paid the money.

I ahve 2 going to them this week. 1911 for competition work and 617 to be converted to 10 shot from 6. I know I will get a fine job on both for a fair price.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[revchuck]

Rather than send it back, I'm going to play with it some, and get the Wolff mainspring. I need to order a couple of sets from Brownell's for my M10s, anyway, to replace my "Irish-American Trigger Job" (backing off the strain screw). It's incidentally a competition gun for IDPA, but mainly a carry gun. I'm just spoiled by the action on my 681. I have a M10-8 on its way to him for the "Combat Revolver Package"; hopefully it'll come back like the 681.

FWIW, I replaced the factory grips with Spegel Boot Plus grips, and the old style cylinder release latch is in my parts bag, with a new style one on the gun.

[Carmoney]

Smith and Wesson will NEVER give you an action job rivaling some of them seen on the revos in competition.....Their LAWYERS won't let them.

+1 to the above with an addition. I have met Vito and had him work on a couple of my revolvers. Great guy, excellent mechanic/machinist/Gunsmith as is Jimmy Rae in spite of what CARMONEY may say.

I'm not saying they're not great guys. Shit, with names like Vito and Jimmy Rae, they've almost gotta be great guys! And I'll agree that for your $125 you'll generally get a yeomanly action job that will be suitable for all-around use, and that is certainly an improvement on the stock action. (Then again, these guns should really be set up better from the factory.....but that's another whole issue, which I suppose invokes all sorts of economic and marketing considerations.)

But, I have never seen anything out of that factory that I couldn't improve upon myself, if the goal is to create the best action for competition use--and I've tried several revos that were sent back in for the "master" action package. Maybe it's a lawyer thing, Hop, but I personally believe the S&W PC is completely out of touch with what serious competitors are looking for. As an example, they showed up with their little dog 'n' pony show at the Steel Challenge in '04, with a table-full of PC guns with the worst frickin' actions on them you can possibly imagine. Meanwhile, Randy Lee was 20 feet away with some examples of his phenomenal S&W action work for people to try. The PC guys didn't even know enough to be embarrassed.

All I can say by way of analogy is that a woman who's an 8.5 looks awfully good......until a 9.9 walks into the room!

Mike

[revchuck]

Going off on a tangent - has anyone tried Randy Lee's "service" action job? Just wondering if it would be worth the freight to send one out to him for that level of work.

I've got my "silk purse" M28 up at Clark's, so I'll have something to compare soon.

[festus1]

I sent my 66 with a 2 1/2 inch barrel to Randy Lee and it should be back to me the first of next week. It is a carry gun and I had him do the full Chicago action job on it just like he did on my 625 - which is amazing. He said it has a lot heavier pull though at a little over 6 pounds if I recall. Chris

[Randy Lee]

Chris can report on the K-frame when it returns. I also have a M-22 here for a carry tune using my hammer and I'll report back when I get it finished. I test fire with Fed, Win and Remington factory and typical results run 5.5-6.0 for the .357's and the 625's that people are carrying.

Sorry Chris, someone just asked if they could buy your 66... and your 627 6.5"- they said thy'll trade you a Beretta 92 and a Rossi.

I also won't be accepting new guns until March first(Sorry guys). I literally am up to my eyeballs in guns and I need to get these critters back to their rightful homes before I can accept new ones.

Smith and Wesson will NEVER give you an action job rivaling some of them seen on the revos in competition.....Their LAWYERS won't let them.

+1 to the above with an addition. I have met Vito and had him work on a couple of my revolvers. Great guy, excellent mechanic/machinist/Gunsmith as is Jimmy Rae in spite of what CARMONEY may say.

I'm not saying they're not great guys. Shit, with names like Vito and Jimmy Rae, they've almost gotta be great guys! And I'll agree that for your $125 you'll generally get a yeomanly action job that will be suitable for all-around use, and that is certainly an improvement on the stock action. (Then again, these guns should really be set up better from the factory.....but that's another whole issue, which I suppose invokes all sorts of economic and marketing considerations.)

But, I have never seen anything out of that factory that I couldn't improve upon myself, if the goal is to create the best action for competition use--and I've tried several revos that were sent back in for the "master" action package. Maybe it's a lawyer thing, Hop, but I personally believe the S&W PC is completely out of touch with what serious competitors are looking for. As an example, they showed up with their little dog 'n' pony show at the Steel Challenge in '04, with a table-full of PC guns with the worst frickin' actions on them you can possibly imagine. Meanwhile, Randy Lee was 20 feet away with some examples of his phenomenal S&W action work for people to try. The PC guys didn't even know enough to be embarrassed.

All I can say by way of analogy is that a woman who's an 8.5 looks awfully good......until a 9.9 walks into the room!

Mike

Hey Mike,

I heard rumors that you were going to the SHOT Show?

[festus1]

Randy, does your hammer setup fit a Rossi? and is it a 7 shot or 8 shot? I'll have to think about it..... Chris

[Carmoney]

Hey Mike,

I heard rumors that you were going to the SHOT Show?

No, afraid not. Haven't attended in at least ten years. Sure would be fun, though!