Premonitions, Or Negative Thoughts Based On The Past

[boo radley]

I'm not a bit superstitious, but occasionally I'll hit something I've had a bad experience with, in the past, and damned if it doesn't happen again. For example there might be a certain hole in golf you always bogey (or worse), or..whatever. I can think of thousands of examples.

Anyone know a fast-track to beat this issue? The only way I know, is to FINALLY beat the problem, then move on....I've read Lanny's book, but find it pretty tough to ignore past performances.

The actual example -- early Sat am, looked at the USPSA site, noticed the classfier section was working again, and saw, hey -- I just needed an eighth classifier to jump to B-class in Limited. Didn't even have to be a particularly GOOD classifier -- just enough to throw out a 45%'er. I hadn't planned on shooting that day, but I rearranged things, kissed my sleeping wife, and hit the road.

On the way to the match, I began experiencing some really ugly thoughts. I remembered how I'd shot 3 matches at this particular club in the past, and ALL were horrendous. I started dwelling on how this match seemed oriented towards lots of steel and stand-and-shoot stages, with tight shots, and how much more I prefered to run about.... I began to wonder what the classifier would be, and hoped it wouldn't involve strong or weak-hand shooting; I'm really weak in that area, but have been working on other things instead....Just some negative thoughts, which I don't normally have. I started thinking on, too, on problems I've been having with my gun....

Long story longer -- sure enough, the classifier was some 3-string monstrosity that involved 5 shots at a bunch of hard-cover, and of course, required strong-hand and weak-hand. And, sure enough, it ended up being a terrible stage, with 4 mikes, a jamming gun, and a terrible match, overall.

The thing that kills me, is I could have sat right where I am now, not shot my match, and entered my predicted score, and have had it be pretty accurate.

I can pull some constructive stuff out of this, and it's helpful to realize, too, part of the problem is lack of confidence (for good reason) on some areas of the game. And I can work on that. But otherwise....

[davidball]

On the way to the match, I began experiencing some really ugly thoughts. I remembered how I'd shot 3 matches at this particular club in the past, and ALL were horrendous. I started dwelling on how this match seemed oriented towards lots of steel and stand-and-shoot stages, with tight shots, and how much more I prefered to run about.... I began to wonder what the classifier would be, and hoped it wouldn't involve strong or weak-hand shooting; I'm really weak in that area, but have been working on other things instead....Just some negative thoughts, which I don't normally have. I started thinking on, too, on problems I've been having with my gun....

Is there any way you could have shot a good classifier or match after all of the above? You can't just read Bassham . . . you have to DO Bassham.

[Flexmoney]

... I could have sat right where I am now, not shot my match, and entered my predicted score, and have had it be pretty accurate.

So...you got the exact performance that your self-image pictured.

[Flyin40]

On the way to the match, I began experiencing some really ugly thoughts. I remembered how I'd shot 3 matches at this particular club in the past, and ALL were horrendous. I started dwelling on how this match seemed oriented towards lots of steel and stand-and-shoot stages, with tight shots, and how much more I prefered to run about.... I began to wonder what the classifier would be, and hoped it wouldn't involve strong or weak-hand shooting; I'm really weak in that area, but have been working on other things instead....Just some negative thoughts, which I don't normally have. I started thinking on, too, on problems I've been having with my gun....

Its funny how the mind works. Learning not to dwell and past performances is a learned art. Your self talk seems to be focused on the negative and that will have a direct result on your performance. One of the best and easiest things to do is just go practice those things, tight shots/weak hand/strong hand so that the next time you walk up to the line and see those things or are driving to the match you can say to yourself with confidence that your going to have a good stage. If you don't have the confidence negative thoughts can easily find thier way into your head.

Flyin40

[boo radley]

... I could have sat right where I am now, not shot my match, and entered my predicted score, and have had it be pretty accurate.

So...you got the exact performance that your self-image pictured.

Oh, absolutely. And, at some level, I'm not sure this really deserves a lot of examination, beyond a "So, you shot a bad match, we all do from time to time, BFD -- learn from it, and move on."

But I still find the underlying issue fascinating, because I don't know how one can "override" facts, based on past performances, with only mental management. I need to get to the point where I can say to myself, "Great! A stage with single-handed shooting. I'm glad I've been working on this, and this should be a good stage for me," and be honest.

I'm not sure how anything but practice, and getting back on the same horse, can get me there. Just rambling.

[XRe]

I really don't think this is a "everyone has a bad match" sort of issue, though. I wouldn't sweep it under the rug This is a good point for you to start looking at your mind game - you noticed this issue, let it serve as a flag for you.

Here's the thing - just as Flex said, you created your poor performance on your way to the match. I'm not saying that you somehow influenced the classifier to change (though.... heh heh... maybe you *did*...) - but that you ticked off a mental list of *bad* things that could happen, and then magically they all manifested.

First things first - get yourself a copy of Bassham's "With Winning in Mind" and/or Kubistant's "Performing Your Best" (out of print - order thorugh Amazon used book dealers). I recommend both. You need some study material

To handle this sort of negative self-talk, and self-image, in the moment (and without having done other work), you need to catch the self-talk, and reverse it. "Every time I shoot at this club, I shoot poorly" becomes "I've learned a lot since I shot here last time. Today, I'm going to shoot a solid match." "I hope the classifier doesn't have strong/weak hand stuff, cause I always do poorly on those" becomes "I hope the classifier has strong or weak hand only, so I can see how much I've progressed in my ability to shoot those kind of stages". And so forth....

To permanently change the self-image pieces, you also need to do focused practice on your weak areas (so, SHO and WHO shooting, for instance), and really focus on your self-talk and what you say to yourself. As davidball says, you can read all the mental game stuff you want - you have to put it into practice before it will become a reality.

[Flyin40]

When I do something wrong I make a mental note of it. I don't dwell on it in a negative way. I'll look at the performance as a learning tool. That puts me in a mind set that if I do something wrong or screw up a stage that I will look at it without judgment. I won't tell myself "I just f#$%#% that up" but in the same breath I won't tell myself "I just burned that stage down". I try to look at it in a way that will always allow me to learn instantly on what I did wrong and how I can improve it. On the drive home is where I can really evualuate what happened. If I had a bad stage I want to know "why" I had a bad stage or "why" I had a good stage. What things did I do right or wrong to give me my outcome on that stage. can have a bad stage and by the time I get to the next stage already evalutated it, thought about it and figured out how to correct it. For me I don't want it completely out of my mind or forgotten. I use it as a way to help my performance on the next stages. I don't want to make the same mistake a couple of stages later.

I think its also extremely important to understand you have no choice in messing up. Its going to happen, it MUST happen, its going to continue to happen. Its part of getting better. Trial by error is a great way improve. Eventually you get it down and then move on to the next thing. When you get that down then you just move on to the next. Its a never ending cycle. Your mess ups and mistakes is nothing more than a tool to learn how to get better and a "must" to get to your goal.

I welcome a screw up, I don't try to make them happen but I understand its a natural progression of getting better. When you screw up as long as your evaulating "why" and "how" you can change the next outcome. This self talk works for me. It keeps me from "dwelling" on something.

Flyin40

I just posted and XRE posted also and wanted to add the following

To handle this sort of negative self-talk, and self-image, in the moment (and without having done other work), you need to catch the self-talk, and reverse it. "Every time I shoot at this club, I shoot poorly" becomes "I've learned a lot since I shot here last time. Today, I'm going to shoot a solid match." "I hope the classifier doesn't have strong/weak hand stuff, cause I always do poorly on those" becomes "I hope the classifier has strong or weak hand only, so I can see how much I've progressed in my ability to shoot those kind of stages". And so forth....

This is a great statement. Its harder to change than you think. First I would recommend taking a piece of paper for a couple of days or a week and writing on it, "Changing". Everytime you look at something in a negative way or think something negative just make a tally mark. Just keep track of it. This includes things outside of shooting, family and work also. After awhile take a look at it and how many times you say those neg. things to yourself. Once you realize how much you do it then start working and changing it.

I bet you'll be surprised.

Once your figure out the negative things you say to yourself you can come up with phrases that you immediately say to correct yourself.

This is a great thread

Flyin40

Edited January 17, 2006 by Flyin40

[Rocket35]

IMHO, the best way to reprogram messing up a specific drill or type of shooting is to practice it until it becomes your strength. I specifically did this in regards to strong and weak hand only shooting. I went out with a .22 and shot about 1000 rds over the course of a weekend. Then the next weekend went out and shot 1000rds match ammo. Presto chango, now I am confident in my abilities and look for times where shooting one handed may improve a peticular stage run, not to mention all the classifiers that seem to have them in it. There are a few out there. Same technique could be used for stand and blast stages, draws, reloads etc. Again just my opinion, but to get better you have to practice it!

[boo radley]

Some great stuff here -- I appreciate it.

Heh -- as an idle experiment, I made a quick list of Bad Things responsible for the ugly match/stage. I am truthfully amazed when I see, in writing, how many aspects were purely mental...

1) weak in single-hand shooting -- skills issue. Plan to develop.

2) gun functional problems -- fixed.

3) Poor attitude (premonition) driving to match -- mental

4) Fear of poor performance when seeing classifier & stages --mental

5) Lack of focus at classifier (long day, didn't visualize, rattled by previous stage, etc.) -- mental

6) Lack of plan/understanding at classifier (was very uncertain how to shoot it -- tried going around the 5 targets one-way with the right hand, and the other way with the weak hand. Zero confidence) -- mental

7) Paid way too much attention the times of other shooters (WHY??) -- mental

8) Totally shot for speed, and became rattled when my gun jammed. (One of the -- literally -- best shooters in the *world* did this in 11 seconds with a dot gun. I shot the 3 strings in 13 sec; no f*cking wonder I had 4 mikes. If I'd understood the stage, I had all the time I needed, within reason, to have a good classifier provided I got the hits. -- mental

9) Self-imposed pressure on the stage (although I'm not sure this is a bad thing) -- mental

Amazing. Only one aspect was a true skills issue, and even there, I had more than enough to have reasonable results.

[Flexmoney]

But I still find the underlying issue fascinating, because I don't know how one can "override" facts, based on past performances, with only mental management. I need to get to the point where I can say to myself, "Great! A stage with single-handed shooting. I'm glad I've been working on this, and this should be a good stage for me," and be honest.

I'm not sure how anything but practice, and getting back on the same horse, can get me there. Just rambling.

Well...this is one of the issues I think I had with Bassham's WWIM. I think others had it too.

I think we tend to think of the "positive talk" as bs'ing ourselves sometimes. No matter what we say, what we (and others) picture is what really counts. Trying to BS yourself is an uphill battle as best.

I am one who looks at issues with an analytical view. I tend to want to break them down and work the answer. When I have a bad performance, I need to work it out in my head to get closure on it.

But, perhaps I really don't need to work it out. Perhaps that is just a past habit. Maybe I should be striving to get the closure by just giving the issue less weight. That can be a very hard thing to do. But, we control what we feed the wolf.

So, maybe it is not so much "overriding" facts, as it is choosing not to feed into the negative vibe. Let the past be the past. Let it go.

At the same time, recognize areas of opportunity for improvement. Address those in training.

And, if you get cornered into a situation and don't have the skill set...don't let that become the focus. Put your power into your strengths, not your weaknesses.

Edited January 18, 2006 by Flexmoney

[XRe]

So, maybe it is not so much "overriding" facts, as it is choosing not to feed into the negative vibe. Let the past be the past. Let it go.

At the same time, recognize areas of opportunity for improvement. Address those in training.

And, if you get cornered into a situation and don't have the skill set...don't let that become the focus. Put your power into your strengths, not your weaknesses.

And there you have it Positive self-talk is not about BS-ing yourself into something you're not. It's about finding the positive spin on the situation and feeding that solely, to the exclusion of any negative thought or vibe. Just like chronic negativity, it's self-feeding and becomes more than what it could seem like on the surface.... Very well put, Flex.

[davidball]

I think we tend to think of the "positive talk" as bs'ing ourselves sometimes. No matter what we say, what we (and others) picture is what really counts. Trying to BS yourself is an uphill battle as best.

If I might add to Flex's and XRe's excellent comments . . .

I agree that "positive talk" that is bs is not helpful. However, I think we can make dramatic improvement in performance by removing bs that is negative. While bs'ing yourself in a positive manner is an uphill battle (we know when we are doing it and when it is inaccurate), bs'ing ourselves in a negative manner IS EASY and we convince ourselves of negative things that are untrue to the detriment of performance. I think that is what boo may be describing in the original post.

Edited January 18, 2006 by davidball

[Flexmoney]

Good stuff.

[boo radley]

... bs'ing ourselves in a negative manner IS EASY and we convince ourselves of negative things that are untrue to the detriment of performance. I think that is what boo may be describing in the original post.

Sort of, David. But I was mostly dwelling on negative things that HAD been true; that weren't BS.

In Bassham's book, "WWIM," do you remember his anecdote of shooting in snow? Short of it is, he's never done it before, but he tells himself he's the best in the world at it, and goes on to win the match.

But. What if he'd shot two or three matches in the snow previously, and they were his worst performances, ever? Now what does he tell himself (yourself) as the flakes fall on the way to the match?

The answers to that question in this thread, have been terrifically enlightening. There's no getting around having the confidence experience and practice in snow, or weak-hand shooting, or whatever provides, but I sure see how I could have thought about things differently.

Probably beat this 'un to death, but shooting a classifier with a single-digit percentage does sting a tad.

[davidball]

... bs'ing ourselves in a negative manner IS EASY and we convince ourselves of negative things that are untrue to the detriment of performance. I think that is what boo may be describing in the original post.

Sort of, David. But I was mostly dwelling on negative things that HAD been true; that weren't BS.

In Bassham's book, "WWIM," do you remember his anecdote of shooting in snow? Short of it is, he's never done it before, but he tells himself he's the best in the world at it, and goes on to win the match.

But. What if he'd shot two or three matches in the snow previously, and they were his worst performances, ever? Now what does he tell himself (yourself) as the flakes fall on the way to the match?

He would have forgotten it. Remember the power of reinforcement - feast on the positive, forget the negative.

I know, I know, easier said than done. I certainly have struggled with dwelling on the negative. But I have made some significant strides in this area and have experienced the improved performance as a result. The mental aspect of sport is a SKILL. It must be explored, experienced and PRACTICED. And like any skill, no one is good at it at first. But with practice . . .

[Flyin40]

I not really sure if I agree with the "bsing yourself that it isn't true" statement. First off for me my reply is "It will be True" and then figure out what I need to do or practice that make that goal come to a reality. When I look at a goal or something I want to achieve, from day one the only thing that pops in my head is not whether I will achieve the goal, its "When I achieve my goal". I don't let doubt in very often, I try to never let it in but it does creep in for all of us. When self doubt creeps in you have to hammer it back with positive self talk every single time. It will eventually become part of your mental process and will automactically happen. This will let you be more honest with yourself and your shooting.

The better you can "honestly" evaulate your shooting the quicker you can identify your weaknesses. I think this is one aspect that all of us struggle with. Noone wants ot really admit they are weak.

Great thread

Flyin40

Edited January 19, 2006 by Flyin40

[davidball]

First off for me my reply is "It will be True" and then figure out what I need to do or practice that make that goal come to a reality. When I look at a goal or something I want to achieve, from day one the only thing that pops in my head is not whether I will achieve the goal, its "When I achieve my goal". I don't let doubt in very often, I try to never let it in but it does creep in for all of us. When self doubt creeps in you have to hammer it back with positive self talk every single time. It will eventually become part of your mental process and will automactically happen. This will let you be more honest with yourself and your shooting.

The better you can "honestly" evaulate your shooting the quicker you can identify your weaknesses. I think this is one aspect that all of us struggle with. Noone wants ot really admit they are weak.

Great thread

Flyin40

Very nice . . . this is going in my "solutions" section . . .

[Flyin40]

I was about to just burn some DVDs of some videos last season on a disk. Something hit me as I was getting out a new DVD disk to burn to. I went out looking for a DVD burner about a week and half ago. I looked on the web to find some info. With all the dual layer/double layer, RW, +/- R I just wanted to make sure I was getting the most for my money. I found the DVD player and I'm very pleased with it but then I went over to buy some Dvds. I looked and there was a ton, -R, +R, RW all the different brands. So I called a guy over who worked there and we talked about the different DVDs. Basically he told me as far as the -R and +R for burning theres really no difference in the two. I wouldn't buy the -R because thats how much I have reinforced positive self talk. I don't like associating with negative things and especially neg. people. Though -R isn't bad I would rather choose the +R. I consciously realized this when I bought the DVDs too, I just forgot about it and thought it would add to this thread.

Flyin40

Edited February 6, 2006 by Flyin40

[BSeevers]

I not really sure if I agree with the "bsing yourself that it isn't true" statement. First off for me my reply is "It will be True" and then figure out what I need to do or practice that make that goal come to a reality. When I look at a goal or something I want to achieve, from day one the only thing that pops in my head is not whether I will achieve the goal, its "When I achieve my goal". I don't let doubt in very often, I try to never let it in but it does creep in for all of us. When self doubt creeps in you have to hammer it back with positive self talk every single time. It will eventually become part of your mental process and will automactically happen. This will let you be more honest with yourself and your shooting.

The better you can "honestly" evaulate your shooting the quicker you can identify your weaknesses. I think this is one aspect that all of us struggle with. Noone wants ot really admit they are weak.

Great thread

Flyin40

Great positive self talk and probably some of the reasons that John has become a good shooter in such a short time. Remember all this is important after you master the fundamentals which some don't want to do. I think its important to shoot with confidence while having humility.

I struggle with telling people their faults(after they ask) because even if they ask you to tell them, a lot of people "can't handle the truth" and really don't want hear it from themselves or anyone else.

I hate putting out all that negativity too, baby. Loved that line by the hippy tank guy on Kellys Heros.

Not personal but heres an example to what the first poster said:

3) Poor attitude (premonition) driving to match -- mental

Better 3 I shoot matches well

4) Fear of poor performance when seeing classifier & stages --mental

I shoot all types of stages well. I know I am ready and prepared to win. I am the best prepared "X"class shooter here today.

Now if you are not doing your homework and practicing yea this alone will not win matches.

Positive self talk is one of the keys for success that I have used for years to win matches.

Edited February 6, 2006 by BSeevers

[boo radley]

Great positive self talk and probably some of the reasons that John has become a good shooter in such a short time. Remember all this is important after you master the fundamentals which some don't want to do. I think its important to shoot with confidence while having humility.

I struggle with telling people their faults(after they ask) because even if they ask you to tell them, a lot of people "can't handle the truth" and really don't want hear it from themselves or anyone else.

I hate putting out all that negativity too, baby. Loved that line by the hippy tank guy on Kellys Heros.

Not personal but heres an example to what the first poster said:

3) Poor attitude (premonition) driving to match -- mental

Better 3 I shoot matches well

4) Fear of poor performance when seeing classifier & stages --mental

I shoot all types of stages well. I know I am ready and prepared to win. I am the best prepared "X"class shooter here today.

Now if you are not doing your homework and practicing yea this alone will not win matches.

Positive self talk is one of the keys for success that I have used for years to win matches.

Nice post, Bill...

This damn sport reminds me of that "Whack-a-Mole" game, where as soon as you pound down one issue, something ELSE pops up!

As luck would have it, about a month later, I shot this same match again, yesterday. Didn't shoot any other matches in the meantime; not from choice, just circumstance.

I did NOT shoot well, all-in-all, but surprisingly my attitude was very good, even though the match was held in a soaking, cold rain. I focused on postive things: yes, a couple mikes and no-shoots really hurt, but I didn't dwell on them. OTOH, I made some tough, tight shots, too on some stages, and those I AM trying to keep front and centered in my mind. I also fought-off some self-imposed pressure, and managed to shoot the classifier just well enough to move up to B class, so I'm glad to get THAT monkey off the back.

Good mental attitude; sloppy shot-calling with predictable results. Still, I'm looking forward.

[benos]

Now that you've identified where the problem lies -

Some great stuff here -- I appreciate it.

Heh -- as an idle experiment, I made a quick list of Bad Things responsible for the ugly match/stage. I am truthfully amazed when I see, in writing, how many aspects were purely mental...

1) weak in single-hand shooting -- skills issue. Plan to develop.

2) gun functional problems -- fixed.

3) Poor attitude (premonition) driving to match -- mental

4) Fear of poor performance when seeing classifier & stages --mental

5) Lack of focus at classifier (long day, didn't visualize, rattled by previous stage, etc.) -- mental

6) Lack of plan/understanding at classifier (was very uncertain how to shoot it -- tried going around the 5 targets one-way with the right hand, and the other way with the weak hand. Zero confidence) -- mental

7) Paid way too much attention the times of other shooters (WHY??) -- mental

8) Totally shot for speed, and became rattled when my gun jammed. (One of the -- literally -- best shooters in the *world* did this in 11 seconds with a dot gun. I shot the 3 strings in 13 sec; no f*cking wonder I had 4 mikes. If I'd understood the stage, I had all the time I needed, within reason, to have a good classifier provided I got the hits. -- mental

9) Self-imposed pressure on the stage (although I'm not sure this is a bad thing) -- mental

Amazing. Only one aspect was a true skills issue, and even there, I had more than enough to have reasonable results.

... you can get to work on it.

This paragraph:

But I still find the underlying issue fascinating, because I don't know how one can "override" facts, based on past performances, with only mental management. I need to get to the point where I can say to myself, "Great! A stage with single-handed shooting. I'm glad I've been working on this, and this should be a good stage for me," and be honest.

... set of a siren in my head.

"Fact": That's a good concept to examine. Is something that happened a "fact," or is it just a memory of something that happened - with a mountain load of significance attached to it.

This morning I took a walk around the block and was very aware of the temperature, the trees and the birds singing. That's something I "re-member." Last week I trashed such-and-such stage. That's also something I remember. But it's a lot more important to me because I care about that memory in a different way. I associate my self-identity with it. So what I'm getting at is to be very careful what you call a "fact." By naming something that occurred as a "fact," you give it a certain amount of importance. The more importance you give it, the more potential it has to become a problem.

By definition, mental management is concerned with preparing yourself to do something that has not happened as well as possible. If that sounds true - then forget everything that went badly. What's the use? Don't give poor performances any importance. Whatever you think about you make stronger. Instead, think only about what you must do in order to create a successful performance. Every time you go to a range, match, or stage, imagine - you've never been there before. Now, what are you going to think about?

be