Question for anyone who shot revolver at Worlds...

[matteekay]

I'd heard before the match that ejecting live rounds from a SSR gun would incur a PE. This has been something of a hot topic in the past (they're ammunition, not loading devices (IMHO)) - does anyone know what the ruling wound up being at Worlds?

[Diver123]

Rule 3.4.6 talks about ammo being left behind. In the past the rule book said loose rounds would incur a PE. People would try to give PE's to a semi auto shooter for racking the slide and ejecting a round. I believe that rule pertained to Revo shooters. 3.4.6 Shooters may not perform a reload which results in a loading device with ammo being left behind. This is commonly known as a “speed reload”, and will result in a Procedural Error penalty being issued. This to me means you reload with a revo that has any number of unfired rounds and you drop them on the ground you get a PE. The exception being you pulled the trigger and they didn't go bang. Now I know you are going to say they are not loading devices and the rules use that word but as you should also know this rule book is a s#!te show. However applying the rules equally to all divisions would seam the most intelligent move but IDPA. It wouldn't hurt to take some of that profit IDPA has and put it into a little technical writing of the rule book. Make it clear and concise.

[matteekay]

12 minutes ago, Diver123 said:

Rule 3.4.6 talks about ammo being left behind. In the past the rule book said loose rounds would incur a PE. People would try to give PE's to a semi auto shooter for racking the slide and ejecting a round. I believe that rule pertained to Revo shooters. 3.4.6 Shooters may not perform a reload which results in a loading device with ammo being left behind. This is commonly known as a “speed reload”, and will result in a Procedural Error penalty being issued. This to me means you reload with a revo that has any number of unfired rounds and you drop them on the ground you get a PE. The exception being you pulled the trigger and they didn't go bang. Now I know you are going to say they are not loading devices and the rules use that word but as you should also know this rule book is a s#!te show. However applying the rules equally to all divisions would seam the most intelligent move but IDPA. It wouldn't hurt to take some of that profit IDPA has and put it into a little technical writing of the rule book. Make it clear and concise.

 

8.1.4.1 - A “loading device” is a magazine, speed loader, or moon clip. 

 

It's really not subjective - ammunition is ammunition, loading devices are loading devices. They're not sometimes one and sometimes the other based on context.

 

That being said, I agree that the rulebook is something of a nightmare and I'm not here to debate the rules with you. I'm curious as to how they applied the rule at Worlds and what the justifications were.

[Diver123]

Well from the sounds of things it was applied however they wanted too. Sometimes they were loading devices other times ammunition. Kinda like a gun not fitting in the box and fitting in the box all at the same time. They took the loose rounds out of the rule book. Why? Did they think the rules stated addressed it? you might be better off asking in one of the facebook forums.

[Joe4d]

22 hours ago, matteekay said:

I'd heard before the match that ejecting live rounds from a SSR gun would incur a PE. This has been something of a hot topic in the past (they're ammunition, not loading devices (IMHO)) - does anyone know what the ruling wound up being at Worlds?

lol,,, sorry man, I thought it was a simple question as well... looking like a facebook thread,, every body with something to say EXCEPT actually answer the question asked.

[matteekay]

4 hours ago, Joe4d said:

lol,,, sorry man, I thought it was a simple question as well... looking like a facebook thread,, every body with something to say EXCEPT actually answer the question asked.

 

I don't Facebook. There's a thread? And I assume it's a trainwreck?

[Joe4d]

17 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

I don't Facebook. There's a thread? And I assume it's a trainwreck?

yeh,, ask a question and get 100 peoples opinions dancing around sorta the subject area,, but not answering the actual question asked

 

[matteekay]

57 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

yeh,, ask a question and get 100 peoples opinions dancing around sorta the subject area,, but not answering the actual question asked

 

 

Sigh... I'd expect no less.

[matteekay]

This is from the MD / AC in question (Frank Strong) - it's a "clarification" he issued to the area at the end of last year.

"3.4.6 - a. For speed reloads (Tac reloads) Rev must retain the moon clip or speed loader. If they have more than 1 round left in the firearm. If they do, it is a PE."

 

This is, in a word... garbage. It's completely unsupported by the rulebook, which states:

 

"3.4.6 Shooters may not perform a reload which results in a loading device with ammo being left behind. This is commonly known as a “speed reload”, and will result in a Procedural Error penalty being issued. "

 

The speedloader, as defined above, is the loading device. If the shooter has reloaded successfully, it will be empty. Rule 3.4.6 cannot be applied to an empty loading device as it literally states it must include ammo. In fact, there's no provision for retaining an empty loading device anywhere in the rulebook. What does this accomplish? 

 

Just another piece of evidence to add to my "IDPA hates revolvers" file. Pretty ironic given the supposed "carry gun, real-life scenarios" pretense they layer on the sport.

Edited January 5 by matteekay

[Joe4d]

lose rounds are not loading devices.  No rule about lose rounds,, anyone that says otherwise deserves to have all the air let out of their tires..