Practiscore to Excel Format?

[Hoops]

Is it possible to convert a Practiscore match to Excel format?

 

Thanks

[jrdoran]

I've had good success with a simple cut / paste from the combined results.   I delete some header info that comes across.

 

 I  compute the MATCH classification for everyone for our 8 stage match and then email out.    Shifts the focus from the one time personal best stage to a more consistent measurement that is normalized across divisions. 

 

We've been bantering in our club the idea of forming teams and aggregating scores and then comparing how teams did.  Sort of like a bowling league.     

 

We have many GMs and lately it is a hero or zero type of match for everyone as they try and push past 100% classification.   Sort of takes the fun out so we're searching for ideas. 

 

@Hoops  What are some of the ideas you have around excel for the data ? 

[Hoops]

On 5/9/2023 at 8:21 AM, jrdoran said:

I've had good success with a simple cut / paste from the combined results.   I delete some header info that comes across.

 

 I  compute the MATCH classification for everyone for our 8 stage match and then email out.    Shifts the focus from the one time personal best stage to a more consistent measurement that is normalized across divisions. 

 

We've been bantering in our club the idea of forming teams and aggregating scores and then comparing how teams did.  Sort of like a bowling league.     

 

We have many GMs and lately it is a hero or zero type of match for everyone as they try and push past 100% classification.   Sort of takes the fun out so we're searching for ideas. 

 

@Hoops  What are some of the ideas you have around excel for the data ? 

Thanks for tip to copy and paste.  I can adjust headers and drop what's not needed.

 

First, your idea about teams is interesting.  Back in my golfing days it was always fun....and competitive....to have different games.  It would be good if everyone that shoots has a classification.  But not everyone would have to participate.  I'm going to talk some of our shooters at the next match.  If you develop a pairing of teams concept, please message me.  One thought would be teams that shoot their within their classifications for the match.  Or pehaps who has the higher percentage against Peak Times which could be all classes, including U.  

 

Back to Excel.  I want to track my matches against my classification.  What direction am I trending...overall and by stage.  Our individual matches are usually 6 rotating stages (we alternate some of the stages so we still get to shoot all 8 stages from month to month.  My match score only shows how I shot against the field that day.  Hero to zero also happens within A's and M's, especially if they are chasing only a second two......anywhere they can get it.....and we have several in that category.  But to know how I shot against my classification I have to go the SCSA member classification calculator and then transfer the data....slow can cumbersome.

 

I am M class in RFRO and PCCO.  I made those classes 3 years ago when I was 69 and in better shape.  I started shooting my pistol recently and I am currently A class but only from matches I shot a while ago before I started shooting carbines.  

 

Thanks again for the copy/paste tip.

 

 

 

 

[jrdoran]

Our thinking if very much aligned.  Good ideas on the teams.

 

 Check out the app  match tracker ( if you haven't already ) ( android / iPhone ) ;  It does 75% of the stage by stage and total classification measurement you desire.  It does not have a historical view, but you can capture after each match and go from there.    https://teammatchtracker.com

 

Tracking the achievement of MATCH classification seems like an easy addition to PS.  Here is what I am doing now.  I also wrote some python code to pull the data from the results screen and then product my own .txt files, but the cut / paste was also easy.   

 

 

[Hoops]

@jrdoran Thanks for the information.

 

Regarding teams.  Back to golf.  Established handicaps was the basis of matches.  Strokes given or received was an attempt to equalize the players/teams (beware of sandbaggers).  How that could translate to teams of D, C, B, A, M or GM vs Peak Times would need some thought.  I'll get back to you if I have any ideas.  But in any case, the use of Excel or some other format to capture the match times and compute the results is necessary to have.  

 

If anyone else has any thoughts about this....jump in.

[euxx]

On 5/9/2023 at 9:21 AM, jrdoran said:

We've been bantering in our club the idea of forming teams and aggregating scores and then comparing how teams did.  Sort of like a bowling league.

You don't really need to do that in Excel. You can register your teams in the individual matches (even after the match is completed) and then use the PractiScore scoring app for Android to combine your matches into a series/league (it is also can be done incrementally as matches are completed). That will give you the team results in these series.

See some more details at https://community.practiscore.com/t/scoring-tournament-club-league-or-match-series-in-practiscore-app-for-android/206

[broadside72]

I built an example for an SCSA points series (converted to Google Sheets just now) by normalizing the peak times and separating combined, centerfire and rimfire groups. First, second and third place get 5, 4, and 3 points respectively. All others that complete the match get 1 point. 

 

You can view the file at 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z57RdZ9uQF7qK2PZ-PD6i11mb9y63JDgjmaOVONH0no/edit?usp=sharing

 

MIght be useful to some for ranking across divisions. Its a manual process the way it is, but the concept can be moved to a script

[jrdoran]

3 hours ago, broadside72 said:

I built an example for an SCSA points series (converted to Google Sheets just now) by normalizing the peak times and separating combined, centerfire and rimfire groups. First, second and third place get 5, 4, and 3 points respectively. All others that complete the match get 1 point. 

 

You can view the file at 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z57RdZ9uQF7qK2PZ-PD6i11mb9y63JDgjmaOVONH0no/edit?usp=sharing

 

MIght be useful to some for ranking across divisions. Its a manual process the way it is, but the concept can be moved to a script

 

Very interesting, I was checking out your linked file.  Perhaps the peak times are outdated, but I was curious was RFPO was scaled as the 100% ?   You had RFPO as the lowest peak time and scale.  This didn't quite make sense to me, but perhaps it had to do with the divisions that were shot in your match ( no rfro / pico ) ; 

 

Also nice how you split out centerfire; 

[broadside72]

20 hours ago, jrdoran said:

 

Very interesting, I was checking out your linked file.  Perhaps the peak times are outdated, but I was curious was RFPO was scaled as the 100% ?   You had RFPO as the lowest peak time and scale.  This didn't quite make sense to me, but perhaps it had to do with the divisions that were shot in your match ( no rfro / pico ) ; 

 

Also nice how you split out centerfire; 

 

Its been a bit since I originally built this so the peak times might be out of date. I am setting the lowest total peak time as the baseline and then scaling all other total peak times based on that. Then using that factor to renormalize the individual match times based on the division. Its all formulas so just updating the peak time area will update the scale factors and the rankings for the match in the example.

 

As you can see in the sample, the first shooter beat the second shooter in raw time but since CO peak is less than RFPO peak, the second shooter's final time is scaled down by that factor, thus beating the first shooter in the combined group. He shot better within CO than the first one did within RFPO, so that is reflected here.

Edited May 13, 2023 by broadside72

[Hoops]

12 hours ago, broadside72 said:

 

Its been a bit since I originally built this so the peak times might be out of date. I am setting the lowest total peak time as the baseline and then scaling all other total peak times based on that. Then using that factor to renormalize the individual match times based on the division. Its all formulas so just updating the peak time area will update the scale factors and the rankings for the match in the example.

 

As you can see in the sample, the first shooter beat the second shooter in raw time but since CO peak is less than RFPO peak, the second shooter's final time is scaled down by that factor, thus beating the first shooter in the combined group. He shot better within CO than the first one did within RFPO, so that is reflected here.

Placement in a match based on performance percentage against each person’s division and classification to me is an equitable comparison.  I’m going to use this model for my own stats.

 

Practiscore will usually place me from 1st to 5th with RFRO based on raw time.   I’ve always felt this presentation was flawed and doesn’t represent the best performance in the match.  Is my performance of being M class but shooting a mid A level better than a CO shooter hitting his/her classification?  I personally don’t think so.  

I’m going to set up a spreadsheet and compare the last few matches just to see what the placement’s really would have been.  

thanks for info

[euxx]

3 hours ago, Hoops said:

Practiscore will usually place me from 1st to 5th with RFRO based on raw time.   I’ve always felt this presentation was flawed and doesn’t represent the best performance in the match.  Is my performance of being M class but shooting a mid A level better than a CO shooter hitting his/her classification?  I personally don’t think so.

Not sure what you referring to here. In a regular results the percentage is simply your performance relative to the match winner. Either in the division or in combined results - all using the absolute overall time.

For SCSA matches the PractiScore Competitor app has an option to rank shooters (and calculate the overall percentages) based on their performance relative to the SCSA Peak Times. You can use that to rank competitors across divisions and see who exceeded their performance at a given match. That view can be also exported into report similar to what you see on the PractiScore website and then use for copy-paste.

Unfortunately this approach does not work for USPSA or other HF-scored matches, as there is no real baseline.
 

[Hoops]

2 hours ago, euxx said:

Not sure what you referring to here. In a regular results the percentage is simply your performance relative to the match winner. Either in the division or in combined results - all using the absolute overall time.

For SCSA matches the PractiScore Competitor app has an option to rank shooters (and calculate the overall percentages) based on their performance relative to the SCSA Peak Times. You can use that to rank competitors across divisions and see who exceeded their performance at a given match. That view can be also exported into report similar to what you see on the PractiScore website and then use for copy-paste.

Unfortunately this approach does not work for USPSA or other HF-scored matches, as there is no real baseline.
 

Is this something a MD would do or can any shooter do this within Practiscore?  It sorts the match results based on performance rather than raw total time?  I'm going to poke around Practiscore now. I don't have any experience with Practiscore other than looking at results.....which in our local matches is raw times from lowest to highest times.

 

Thanks

[Hoops]

I found a Practiscore Competitor App online.  One was designed for ipad and one was Google play.  I assume that I could download the Google app to my laptop?

 

It appears just looking at it that I can import match results from Practiscore and then work the numbers.  

 

Thanks

[euxx]

40 minutes ago, Hoops said:

Is this something a MD would do or can any shooter do this within Practiscore?

 

What exactly are you referring here? The PractiScore website? The PractiScore scoring app? Or something else?

There are tools meant to be used by MDs, in order to run, score and post the match results. For example, the PractiScore scoring app.

There are also several tools for competitors. The PractiScore website section with the match results is one of such tools available for free.

There is also one-time paid app for iOS and Android called PractiScore Competitor that helps to keep track and analyze any match results. See more at https://community.practiscore.com/c/tools/competitor/14

Generally I won't advise it, but if you know how to run Android apps from Google Play on your desktop PC. Also can run the iOS app on an Apple computer with M1/M2 CPU.

 

40 minutes ago, Hoops said:

It sorts the match results based on performance rather than raw total time?

 

For SCSA and any other TimePlus-based scoring, the total time (plus all penalty times) is THE performance that is being measured. The percentage that you may see in some of the reports that PractiScore scoring app or PractiScore Competitor app are generating is mainly for illustrative purpose to show roughly how far your total time from the division winner is.

But PractiScore Competitor app has more options for viewing or filtering results (and also works offline). You can combine arbitrary divisions, view results normalized to SCSA Peak Times and also see % of the SC Peak Times in each stage run.

 

You can also keep track of your SC or USPSA classifier stage runs over time. Admittedly I could improve the visual representation of that (maybe add chart, etc)
See https://community.practiscore.com/t/stage-info-screen-in-practiscore-competitor-app/610

[Hoops]

Back to my non-tech thoughts when I started this topic and hopefully I don’t continue to muddy the water.  For SCSA only.

 

Regardless of division or classification, the current Practiscore match results under combined is based on time only with 1st place the lowest time and last place the highest time.  The percentages shown by each shooter is just straight math off the 1st place 100%.  No problem here.

 

For me only, I wanted to track my performance by stage and overall by match.  I may place high in a match, depending on who shows up and what divisions are in the mix, but how did I shoot within my classification?  My trends over several matches?  So I asked if a person could convert matches from the Practiscore program into an Excel spreadsheet?  
 

The idea of leagues was subsequently brought up with the winner being who shot the best percentage against their Peak Times.  For example,   I could shoot mediocre in RFRO and beat a CO shooter that shot much better than me against our relative Peak Times.  
 

It was suggested that that there is an app that would calculate this type match results by importing specific match data from or within Practiscore.  I don’t know.
 

That’s about where I am now….being clueless of how Practiscore and/or apps work.

 

thanks

[euxx]

40 minutes ago, Hoops said:

Regardless of division or classification, the current Practiscore match results under combined is based on time only with 1st place the lowest time and last place the highest time.  The percentages shown by each shooter is just straight math off the 1st place 100%.  No problem here.

 

As long as you accept that "combined" results have no real meaning for any official standing. It is there mainly for information purposes and is used by some people to assess their performance regardless of division.

 

40 minutes ago, Hoops said:

For me only, I wanted to track my performance by stage and overall by match.  I may place high in a match, depending on who shows up and what divisions are in the mix, but how did I shoot within my classification?  My trends over several matches?  So I asked if a person could convert matches from the Practiscore program into an Excel spreadsheet?

 

You can copy reports into Excel, though for tracking your own performance there isn't that much data from any given match to enter manually.

The PractiScore Competitor app could help to take some burden of that manual data entry and it also show some info you may not find in the regular results. For example the % of the Peak Times for an SC stage or Time/Split charts if match used one of the Bluetooth timers to capture all the shots. It also could help to tack history of your runs across matches. See section (5) on the "Stage Info" screen and read more at https://community.practiscore.com/t/stage-info-screen-in-practiscore-competitor-app/610

 

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Hoops said:

The idea of leagues was subsequently brought up with the winner being who shot the best percentage against their Peak Times.  For example,   I could shoot mediocre in RFRO and beat a CO shooter that shot much better than me against our relative Peak Times.

 

Theoretically that could be added to the series support in the PractiScore scoring app. Though general interest in that is rather negligible in regards to any "official" standings (see the point above about "combined" not being official). In other words - every division competes independently.

 

40 minutes ago, Hoops said:

It was suggested that that there is an app that would calculate this type match results by importing specific match data from or within Practiscore.  I don’t know.
 

That’s about where I am now….being clueless of how Practiscore and/or apps work.

 

I can't say anything about apps "that would calculate this type match results by importing specific match data from or within Practiscore" and still not sure what "Practiscore" you are referring to.

But some of the reports that been discussed above can be produced directly by either in the PractiScore scoring app, or in the Competitor app. And that removes some of the manual pre-processing of data you'd  copy-paste from the overall match results posted on the PraciScore website. But of course not the arbitrary normalization of the match times.
 

 

[Hoops]

I’m impressed.  Clearly you are extremely knowledgeable on the technology.  I do appreciate you taking the time to write detailed responses.  A friend of mine is a tech guy and I’m going to ask him to read thru all your responses before I ask any more questions.

 

Thank you

[broadside72]

22 hours ago, Hoops said:

The idea of leagues was subsequently brought up with the winner being who shot the best percentage against their Peak Times.  For example,   I could shoot mediocre in RFRO and beat a CO shooter that shot much better than me against our relative Peak Times.  

 

My buddy is a USPSA guy but just shot his first SCSA match and had no real understanding how the peak times and classifications worked and how results were presented in a skewed fashion (combined). After some discussion it was when I finally said that the CO world record is still 5 seconds slower than the basic RFPO 100% time that he finally got it. 

[jrdoran]

Here is an example of the report I generated after this w/e match.  The CO / OPN guys loved it because it put them on equal footing . 

 

Quote

 

 

[Hoops]

3 hours ago, jrdoran said:

Here is an example of the report I generated after this w/e match.  The CO / OPN guys loved it because it put them on equal footing . 

 

 

This is exactly what I had in mind.  Frankly I wonder why Practiscore uses the Combined feature…..what’s the point?
 

thanks

[Hoops]

6 hours ago, broadside72 said:

 

My buddy is a USPSA guy but just shot his first SCSA match and had no real understanding how the peak times and classifications worked and how results were presented in a skewed fashion (combined). After some discussion it was when I finally said that the CO world record is still 5 seconds slower than the basic RFPO 100% time that he finally got it. 

Can’t tell you how many times this comes up.  What’s worse is someone saying congratulations on me taking first place……..with my RFRO.  
 

Maybe Practiscore could review this?

[euxx]

12 hours ago, Hoops said:

Can’t tell you how many times this comes up.  What’s worse is someone saying congratulations on me taking first place……..with my RFRO.  
 

Maybe Practiscore could review this?

With Combined results not counting for any scores there isn't really anything for PractiScore to review. You don't have to look at these results if they have no meaning to you. Though there are competitors in SC who are running the same gun in multiple divisions or jut want to look at the absolute times.

BTW, the PractiScore Competitor app has an option to show by-peak-times ranking similar to @jrdoran report for any SC match AND it also allows to select divisions you want to include in "Combined" results.

[Hoops]

Thanks.  Got it.