Guest Dick W Holliday Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 As i stated in a previous thread i just put in a heavy package from glockracer in my 17L.......well i've given up on the tunsten guiderod until my new springs get here from Wolff (ordered a 12 and a 14).......so i put the original glock captured spring back in and damn i'm still having problems....went to the range today and i've never had so many stovepipes (shooting WW Wallymart 9mm).....could the weight of the new alone magwell be causing this????? i think that everything else is just as it was before i started out on this quest to make the gun heavy..........thanks......Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 The easy answer is to take it off and find out. Could be that the installation of the magwell has put soem stress (torque) on the frame in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 you know that occurred to me but i had previously used the Dick Holliday/Jenn Aire method for Flaring the frame into a pretty good magwell as was so getting the brass job over my existing flared magwell was somewhat of a chore and also both the rear and bottom screws of the new brass job were loctited into place and based on the squeeking noise that the small screw on the bottom was making when i installed it....i'm not sure that it will ever come out..............but i'm pretty sure that the frame is not torqued in any way....Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Dick, I don't know...but, I seem to recall folks having trouble with putting the magwells on too tight. Seems the fix was to loosen that sucker up a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Well i got it off and as luck would have it ...it runs like a champ without my new magwell........boy this sucks....got a tungsten guiderod and heavy magwell and now i've got to wait for my wolff springs to see if it the gun will run with a lighter spring..... hey Flex.....i know you'll be reading this so here goes another working on my Glock story....my wife was out of town today so i spent a good part of the day with the 17L all to pieces on my workbench.....i had read the Dremeling your Glock piece a few times so today was my day to see how much of it i could get done.......it appeared that the most dramatic change in trigger pull would come from relocating the spring holes in the trigger bar.......Dale said it was made of some pretty hard metal and i would have to anneal it before i could drill it.....well i got it red hot twice and i still cannot even peck it with a center punch.....that thing is still as hard as a Preachers Pec*ker.......so i bypassed that mod for today or until i can get more info on how to drill it....i did stone a few things and polish some and i also cut down the firing pin engagement surface and just got back from test firing and everything went OK......trigger is smoother but not much lighter.....the next time i get a free morning i think i'll try to install the trigger stop.....time will tell......Dick (Edited by Dick W Holliday at 6:15 pm on Jan. 27, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 You want light?, start clipping springs (striker 3-4 coils, and maybe the safety plunger spring 2-3 coils). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Dick, I take it these are your "game guns"? I also figure that there is nothing in the world that anybody could say to keep you from "fixing" them. Tinkering seems to be in your blood, right? That sounds like who you are...and that is fine and dandy. (I know lots of people that won't touch the insides of their guns...no matter what.) On that trigger. Like Tom says...springs are the quick trigger job. Many clip a few coils from the firing pin safety plugger spring. Big gains can be made by going with the lighter striker springs (I just stick in Wolff Reduced Power Striker Springs...you can get a 3-pak for about $5). Stoning & polishing up any moving part that touches any other part is very helpful. Going with the reduced power in the striker spring will require that you keep the striker channel cleaned out. Gunk slows things up. You also may want to use only Federal primers...and ensure they are completely seated (below flush). On changing the location of the "trigger return" springs attachment point to the trigger bar...that will lighten up your trigger pull. It will also amplify any drag that hasn't been polished out of your other trigger parts. It may make the trigger too light. People shoot mine and...well...the guns goes off for them a little early sometimes. I also have an over-travel screw. I don't use it. I feel that you need some over-travel in the Gock trigger (I do anyway). Question... ... i also cut down the firing pin engagement surface Could you eloborate on that some? Did you do the 45 degree cut from the Dale Rhea article or did you change how much engagement height the trigger bar has with the striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnfst Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hello Dick I have found that in the later glocks heating up the trigger bar just seems to harden it more. Be careful of how much you heat it. You are supposed to anneal in a dark room. You want to heat the bar till you can see a barely there glow. If you heated it up in a lighted room by the time you could see it turning red its too hot. Then you quench it in cold water. I have drilled probably close to 20 of the trigger bars already. Only two of them did I have problemse with, both of these were in my early days and I attempted to anneal both of them. The rest of them I did nothing to but redrill the hole. It sometimes helps to start with a smaller drill bit and I use a handheld cordless drill to start so I have more feel. A good sharp center punch is also a good thing to start with. All engagement points are stoned flat and then polished to a mirror. I cut the striker as in Dale Rheas article. I do not use the 3.5lb connector too mushy for me. I use a 5lb connector with the new york trigger spring and I get a very "crisp" 2.25lb trigger pull. It breaks a little earlier than the 3.5 lb connector and it doesn't feel as mushy. With a reduced power trigger return spring and the 3.5 connector I end up with a sub 2lb trigger that is a little vague. Go slow and be safe. I've seen many full auto glocks that homesmiths have built accidentally. Good Luck btw I had around 12,000 rnds of .40 through my g22 with the heavy magwell and tungsten guide rod with a stock recoil spring that was cut down a bit. I changed to the ismi 13lb and 15lb springs and started getting the malfunction you are experiencing. I went back to the stock spring on the tungsten guide rod and the gun runs great again. You can cut the end off of the stock captured spring and put it on your tungsten guide rod if you don't have one of the non captured springs to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Flexmoney---this 17L is my play gun--my stock model 17 is my business pistol (unless i can get to the Mossberg first). i've had the L for years and during that period glock has replaced about everything on it except for the Frame and since it is the old slick one (now with Skate tape) it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to replace it just to get the rails on the dustcover.....i even managed to crack the slide a few years back with some Subgun ammo (however it did take 4000 rounds to do it). i was having a problem with failure to fires a while back and a Glock Amorer replaced my old striker spring at a match.....i had gone to Federal Primers and that had pretty much curred the problem but i hate having a pistol that is ammo specific..... i've got some Wolff goodies on the way (am i the only guy on this board that wakes up in the middle of the night and orders stuff??).......i sometimes get a box and i'm afriad it may be something expensive i ordered while i was asleep (you know-sort of like sleep walking) i forgot to mention earlier that i peened the rear rails and that seems to really tighten up the slide but whether or not it improved the trigger pull i really can't say..... Sounds like i don't know anything about annealing somthing....so i think i may save that for a professional.... Full auto Glock???? i bet you may have guessed that one of mine did a few years ago.....i was shooting an IPSC match and ran up to a section of plywood that had three ports cut in it.......the gun had run fine all day and fortunately it was the last stage because i put a four +-shot burst through each port...... More later----the wifes ready to go eat.........Dick Oh by the way i did cut the end of the stiker off at the 45 degree.....there again i can't tell much difference...... (Edited by Dick W Holliday at 6:22 pm on Jan. 28, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Well i've been at it again......i may need a new Dremel before this is over (and i doubt it ever will be)......polished the safety plunger good all around and cut the spring a little......both sides of the trigger bar really look good......the disconnector although i can't it to a mirror finish is a lot better than it was......My Lansky knife sharpener has really come in handy for these mods. i remember when Dale Rhea was talking about tightening the slide that he mentioned about that would increase the engagement surface on the striker since the slide doesn't rock anymore.....i'm wondering can i stone some off the bottom face of the striker (in addition to the 45 degree) so i won't have as much creep or whatever you want to call it.....thanks.....Dremel Dick (Edited by Dick W Holliday at 4:40 am on Jan. 29, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 fishnfst, Thanks for the hint about the dark room. If you remember my email question to you, about how to anneal I should have included I was heating it up with all the lights on. Actually making it harder, hmmmm. Thanks, I got the first one drilled and am now playing with a third. Also, I think drilling two holes and putting the spring between the 2nd and 3rd actually improves it a little more. I don't have a trigger scale to be precise. The one I tried this on hasn't gone full auto....yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Dick, the dremel drill press and a drill press vice is a very handy little set-up for drilling trigger bars. I got my drill press for 38 on-line at thedremelstore.com just before New Year's and the drill press vice was about 10 from harbor frieght. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 what do you guys think about this.... . i remember when Dale Rhea was talking about tightening the slide that he mentioned about that would increase the engagement surface on the striker since the slide doesn't rock anymore.....i'm wondering can i stone some off the bottom face of the striker (in addition to the 45 degree) so i won't have as much creep or whatever you want to call it.....thanks.....Dremel Dick i guess what i'm saying is can i shorten the firing pin tang?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Dick, Have a spare striker on hand. When you're done with your modifications, reassemble the pistol. UNLOADED pull the trigger, hold it to the rear, and cycle the slide. Carefully allow the trigger to move forward. If you hear the striker release again, you've taken too much metal off and created a full auto glock. Be aware that folks who have extensively modified their strikers have had the gun double in matches after months of satisfactory usage. Having shot both modified strikers and stock shape (but well polished) strikers, I don't notice enough of a difference to want to deal with the potential ramifications. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Dick, I'm with Nik...changing the engagement between the striker and the trigger bar often leads to doubling, even full auto. I have seen it a few times at in matches. (that why I was asking earlier) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 i just got back from the range with my 17 and 17L....i really wish i'd waited on the rail tightening thing on the L slide....it's sort of wierd but when i put my 17 slide which has not been peened on the 17L frame-it has the sort of pull i want....not light yet but it has a minimum of overtravel that i'm looking for.........i forgot to mention earlier but i put an overtravel block on the left side of the block that houses the trigger spring and the disconnector......i haven't permanently secured it yet --i cut a small block of nylon and sanded it to a nice tight fit at the back of the slot and it is working great as an overtravel stop. i'm going to shoot the 17L frame with the 17 slide on it in my first IDPA match this weekend.......maybe my wollf springs will get here tomorrow and i can try the gun with light springs and see how it goes.........Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnfst Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Dick be careful with the spacer in trigger housing assembly. This area of the block is actually your drop safety. Make sure you leave enoughof the channel open for the wing on the trigger bar to fit into so the trigger bar cannot slip off of the striker without any rearward movement of the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 i shot my first IDPA match today......had a pretty good time but i'm used to IPSC and threegun where you send a bunch of lead downrange......this was in a small club with not a bunch of range area so i think they kept the # of targets down so they could set up more stages on the limited berm....................but anyway i took my 17L frame with all the tricks that i could do to it that we've been discussing....i ran my slide from a 17 that i have but i installed the 17L striker with reduced power wolff spring in it........i had gone to the range yesterday and ran about 150 rounds of whitebox WW and my reloads with ww primers in it and all fired without a hitch.....actually some of the best shooting i'd ever done with it........took it home and cleaned up the striker channel and packed up my stuff for the match today......Stage one.....whipped out my trusty 17...Bang, Bang, Bang,Sproing!!!!!! Light primer hit--no ignition......i came prepared for that....i put in the regular 17 factory striker and no more problems....actually came in third overall out of about 18 shooters.......so i felt good about the day .........but now i know that if i shoot the light striker again that reloads with Federal Primers will be in it.........now to put the big magwell back on and see how it runs in an IPSC match.......Dick (Edited by Dick W Holliday at 4:38 pm on Feb. 1, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Dick, 1. Is your 17L stiker lightened? (i.e. Lighting Strike Titanium or skelontized steel) 2. What kind of primers are you currently using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick W Holliday Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 WW primers and yes i lightened the striker a small amount when i cut the 45degree on the striker tang engagement surface..........Dick PS: i emailed Glockracer a little while ago as the 17L will not run with the big mag well no matter which recoil spring i run in it (tried 12/13/14 and standard captured factory system)....I did not shoot the IDPA with the big brass magwell, but today i tried every every recoil spring/recoil spring guide combination i could think of and i could not get the pistol to function reliably....i was having the same jam as a few days ago,,,,the slide locked back against the next round in the mag and the fired round pulled about half out of the chamber....the only way i could get it to run was to totally remove the big brass magwell......hard for me to believe but that's the way it is....i must have fired 50-75 rounds without incident after removing the magwell.......Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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