Anyone ever tried a higher mag fixed scope with a tube mounted or offset RDS?

[Randomprojectile78]

Title:  Anyone ever tried a higher mag fixed scope with a tube mounted or offset RDS?

 

Considering:

cost / total weight / glass quality / speed. 

 

Since most close-in shots either are or can be easily taken with a RDS (say offset for the discussion), and variable scopes often stay on max magnification, is there a possible advantage to a good fixed scope with offset RDS?  Thinking about this since a lot of cost in variables is the adjustability and most of the cost on fixed scopes is glass.  For the sake of the discussion, imagine the SWFA 10x42 (good glass, well built, 18 oz, at $270) with a RMR at 45* offset.  Could this be a viable alternative to a 1-10 LPVO, either alone, or even compared to those that run offsets with them as well?    Thoughts?

 

Note:  I posted this here because I saw the LPVO sticky up top.  If there is a better place to post please let me know.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Randomprojectile78
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[Southpaw]

How far are shots at your matches that you need 10x? Around here we're at about 500 yards max, so I have no need for anything more than 6x, if that.

 

I also like using intermediate magnification on LPVOs so definitely don't keep them on max magnification.

 

I do think I might like a lower powered fixed optic like an ACOG with offset or piggyback red dot, but I don't want to shoot in Open division so haven't tried that setup.

[Randomprojectile78]

500 max range. 

 

I have a PA 1-6 now and like it (currently no RDS).  It's FFP and ACSS so I use it either at 1 or 6 to ensure the reticle is accurate.  The question arises out of all the talk about 1-10 LPVOs (like the razor hd).  I don't see the need for more magnification, but acknowledge farther shots are easier with higher magnification assuming you can get stable.  When thinking about more magnification, especially higher quality stuff, the optics get expensive and heavy.  Got me thinking about essentially an ACOG that is 10X, but instead I'd just make one myself by using a 10X scope with a piggyback RDS or offset.

[TonytheTiger]

20 minutes ago, Randomprojectile78 said:

 It's FFP and ACSS so I use it either at 1 or 6 to ensure the reticle is accurate.  

That's exactly the opposite of how this works.

 

Have you looked through many 10x scopes? The FOV and eyebox typically suck. They would be worthless for say a 60yd plate rack.

At a major this year they had little black clays, about 2" at maybe ten yards. Because of the lighting and background they were almost invisible at 1x. 2x was just right. 10x or a red dot would've been useless. That's just one of many times where I absolutely needed a little magnification but not very much.

Another stage at that same match had steel at 200, 300, 400 and 500 and 6x was almost too much because it was hard to transition from one target to the next because of a combination of terrain, target placement and the limited FOV at 6x. 4x would've been ideal. 10x would've been a handicap.

 

One thing I've learned from some really good shooters is to use as little magnification as you can get away with. If you have lots of steel at intermediate ranges, 50-150 yards, you'll almost always be faster on the clock with 1-3x rather than 6x or more. All of my testing and practice tells me I'd rather have a really good 1-4x than only a dot and a mediocre 10x.

[Southpaw]

You know with a FFP reticle subtensions are accurate at all magnifications, right? Either way, out to around 300 yards you don't need any BDC anyway. 

 

I wouldn't want a fixed 10x scope. Would be too slow, too small a field of view.

 

ETA, I'm too slow, see Tony beat me on both points 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Southpaw

[AKJD]

Having the option to use your tube optic on low power when shooting from awkward positions or from support side where using a side mounted RDS is difficult can be useful also. 

[Randomprojectile78]

15 hours ago, TonytheTiger said:

That's exactly the opposite of how this works.

 

Have you looked through many 10x scopes? The FOV and eyebox typically suck. They would be worthless for say a 60yd plate rack.

At a major this year they had little black clays, about 2" at maybe ten yards. Because of the lighting and background they were almost invisible at 1x. 2x was just right. 10x or a red dot would've been useless. That's just one of many times where I absolutely needed a little magnification but not very much.

Another stage at that same match had steel at 200, 300, 400 and 500 and 6x was almost too much because it was hard to transition from one target to the next because of a combination of terrain, target placement and the limited FOV at 6x. 4x would've been ideal. 10x would've been a handicap.

 

One thing I've learned from some really good shooters is to use as little magnification as you can get away with. If you have lots of steel at intermediate ranges, 50-150 yards, you'll almost always be faster on the clock with 1-3x rather than 6x or more. All of my testing and practice tells me I'd rather have a really good 1-4x than only a dot and a mediocre 10x.

Tony, I agree.  But, I'm comparing variable FOV and eye box to fixed FOV and eyebox at the same magnification.  Even if the variable is a 1-3, my assumption is (and I get that this may be wrong) that most people switch back an forth between min and max, like an ELCAN.  So the question in is instead of switching between min and max on one optic, what about a scope with the max magnification (and FOV, eyebox, eye relief, ETC) and a RDS for the equivalent 1X shots?  I've seen shooters with variables and RDS.  I was wondering about eliminating the weight, cost, complexity, ETC of the variable in those situations.  

[Randomprojectile78]

15 hours ago, Southpaw said:

You know with a FFP reticle subtensions are accurate at all magnifications, right? Either way, out to around 300 yards you don't need any BDC anyway. 

 

I wouldn't want a fixed 10x scope. Would be too slow, too small a field of view.

 

ETA, I'm too slow, see Tony beat me on both points 

SP,

 Good call.  I should have said it's SFC where BDC reticles can be problematic.  I'm aware, but since I have both SFP and FFP I've always had the habit of using both only on min and max magnification because I didn't want to forget which I was using at the time.   Good points about a 10X when it's too close.  I tried to lay it out a bit better to my reply to Tony, (comparing a 1-4 to a 4 fixed with the RDS for close in shots or a 1-10 with a 10 fixed with the RDS for close in shots-like an elcan)

[Southpaw]

As I said above, I use intermediate magnification a lot. Depending on your zero, you don't need to use the BDC out to around 300 yards and can just aim with center of reticle. For both FFP and SFP the center of reticle has same zero at all magnifications. 

 

Experiment with using lower magnification for mid range targets and I bet you'll like it. You'll find it's much faster to find targets and transition with the larger FOV.

 

Also, as I mentioned, using fixed scope + red dot puts you in Open division, something to consider if you care about that.

[Randomprojectile78]

Southpaw,  Good comments.  Thanks!